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AFL I Arena Football League (1987-2008)

The OSC Interview: John Hahn

by Fran Stuchbury
February 7, 2007 - Arena Football League (1987-2008) (AFL I)


OurSports Central contributor Fran Stuchbury interviewed San Jose columnist John Hahn. Hahn who has been working with San Jose since the 2002 season, has been involved with the AFL for several year. He was the Vice President of Operations for the Portland Forest Dragons from 1997 to 1999 and in 2001 he was the Vice President of Operations for the traveling Houston ThunderBears

Fran Stuchbury: What interested you in working for the Portland Forest Dragons? How familiar were you with Arena Football at that time?

John Hahn: In 1977, I left the newspaper business to begin my career in sports management. To be honest, I may have missed the boat when the Seattle Mariners, just getting started, offered me the assistant media relations job. I was offered the same pay and benefits with the Portland (Oregon) Timbers of the North American Soccer League. Owning a home in West Linn, Oregon, and some other factors led me to the Timbers offer of being the Director of Public Relations.

The Forest Dragons of the AFL were another start up team (at least for Portland because they had moved from Memphis). I was thrilled to take the job of PR Director to start and then as things progressed I became the vice president of operations. I think the aura of football was the lure that made me want to get involved in Arena Football. It seemed like the best thing for me and it was an American game at that.

As for my familiarity with Arena or indoor football, it was insignificant prior to coming to the Dragons. I had seen several AFL games on ESPN in the past, at 2 a.m. in the morning, but the most interesting thing was this: When I was with the Portland Pride of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, we were to play the Las Vegas Dustdevils (1995) in the Den of Inequity City of bright lights. Our radio play-by man Bob Akamian and I went to the Strip city a day early after mentioning to Bob that an indoor football game was going to be played the night before in Thomas & Mack.

Bob agreed to go along and we had no more than landed, rented a car and we were off to the arena. The game was between the Las Vegas Sting and the Milwaukee Mustangs with quarterback Todd Hammel leading the Wisconsin brewery city. To be honest, I told Bob I wasn't impressed with the game, although the Sting won, 45-33, in front of an announced crowd of 5,483.

At first I thought it was boring compared to indoor soccer because the action in soccer was non-stop. Little did I realize that two years later I would be promoting and propagandizing the world about the Arena Football League. You are probably wondering how the soccer game turned out. Portland won, 10-6, in front of less than 4,000 in attendance.

To make this long story longer, I would say that what spiked my interest in the AFL was the professional approach the league had compared to some of the other leagues I had been involved with. And, I began to enjoy football, an American game, much more than soccer, or football as the foreign contingent calls it.

FS: Did you enjoy your experience with the team? How come Arena Football did not succeed there? What was your take on Forest Dragons WR Oronde Gadsden who was AFL Rookie of the Year in 1998? Do you still keep in touch with him?

JH: Whoa, one thing at a time! First, the Forest Dragons experience was the best I've had, next to working with the San Jose SaberCats people. The reason revolves around many things. The camaraderie of the players and coaches was great. And the chance to learn about the field system from my good friend Don Frease, who was the head coach when we started. Don taught me a lot about the game and a lot about personnel as well. Many things made that experience invaluable toward me becoming good at operations.

The AFL did succeed in Portland. It was the owner who pulled the team out because he felt the Rose Garden was charging too much for a lease and he couldn't get the right price for the team. Let me tell you some things that have never been said or printed publicly here. First, Mr. Gatlin (Ed, the primary owner) made some incredibly bad decisions. He spent entirely too much money up front to bring the team to Portland.

The AFL was and never will be the NFL or the NBA and to operate the Forest Dragons, as we were the Portland Trail Blazers was wrong. That's where a lot of money was lost. High salaries in the front office (I wasn't one of them) and spending on promotions was out of sight. It looked good and the fans loved it, but it could have been scaled down.

Secondly, he could never get his price for the team he wanted. He talked with representatives of Paul Allen, the Microsoft co-founder who owned the Trail Blazers and the Rose Garden at that time, and Allen's people came back with an offer of less than $3 million.

People in the league office were telling Gatlin at the time franchises were worth $5 million or more. What Allen offered was a deal, even if Gatlin took $1.2 million and cut his losses. So instead of taking the Blazers owners buy out, Gatlin and his partners decided to make a break for Oklahoma City. Just another way of divorcing himself from another city (Memphis was first the Pharaohs). It was easy to walk away.

Now here's a side story to all this no one has ever mentioned. Paul Allen came to one Forest Dragons game in the three years of the franchise. Allen was in his private box during a game during the 1998 season (when Oronde Gadsden was with us). A high-up employee of the Rose Garden was discussing the event with Allen when he turned and said to the employee: We do own this team, don't we?

In shock, the executive looked at his boss and said, well, no. Not at this time. Allen actually thought he had owned the team for more than a year before coming to a game and finding out he didn't.

And speaking of Oronde, my take was simple. Oronde Gadsden was one of the finest receivers to ever grace the indoor turfs of the AFL. In fact, I would venture to say, he would have been a superstar in the AFL, had he stayed. But you could tell from one game, and that was the opener in Albany in 1998, that this young man would star in the NFL. And he did just that. Oronde told me just after the last game of the season in New Jersey that he had signed a contract with the Miami Dolphins and was leaving near midnight for the south Florida franchise.

Did you know that Oronde played in 38 professional football games in 1998? That included both the Dragons and the Dolphins. Has anyone ever played more in one year? I doubt it. James Hundon (retired offensive specialist with the San Jose SaberCats) came close, playing an entire season in the XFL, AFL and CFL several years ago.

Gadsden went on to six-plus seasons with the Dolphins and made more than $3 million (one contract) after a base salary in one season of $9,000 with the Forest Dragons. Oronde is one of the nicest persons you'll ever meet. Today he is retired in Davie, Florida, owns his own clothing company (OG) and is a friend of mine, which I am proud to say.

A little story about the former Winston-Salem University graduate. We were flying home from a game and I had seated Oronde in an exit row middle seat. When I got on board the aircraft I realized I was on the aisle of the same row. I gave as many big guys seats in exit rows and bulkheads as I could (or first class when we could upgrade them). I offered Oronde my seat, thinking the aisle would suit the 6-foot-3 athlete better. He said, "No, Hondo, you keep that seat. I'm fine." That was the kind of class guy he was and still is. By the way, a two-page layout in the 1999 media guy was done because Oronde didn't make the 1998 book having come in late to camp that year. In fact, he came right in and played, and became 1998 Rookie of the Year.

And, yes, I obviously stay in touch with him about a number of things because I live in Florida, too.

FOOTNOTE: In that first game of 1998 at the Albany (NY) Firebirds, Oronde had 11 catches for 183 yards and one TD in a Portland loss by only seven points. In the last game of the season at the New Jersey Red Dogs, Oronde had 11 catches for 172 yards and four TD's. His totals for the season, that earned him 1998 AFL Rookie of the Year was 93 catches fro 1,335 yards, avg. 14.4 per game and 37 TD's in 14 games.

FS: How did you like working for the traveling Houston ThunderBears the 2001 season? Where exactly were you able to do your work? How was it traveling on the road every week for four months with the team?

JH: Where do I start with the Traveling Bears? It was one of great experiences of my sports management career. In fact, I place it only behind being a part (publicist) of the 1984 Olympic Baseball Team and marching in the opening ceremonies in the Los Angeles Coliseum with the team.

Again, this was an opportunity as the only on-site administrator of the ThunderBears, besides the Coaches, and it gave me an opportunity to again grow in this sport of Arena football. I have a lot of people to thank, especially David Cooper (former VP of Communications of the AFL; he's now with the NBA) and Joe Vrankin, the leagues CFO.

But I most want to recognize the four coaches and especially Steve Thonn, the head man whom I respected so much for his abilities, and assistants Ron James (he should be a head coach in the AFL again, is now defensive coordinator with Utah Blaze), Gary Gussman (now special teams coach for the New Orleans VooDoo, and he'll be a head coach again too) and David Cunningham, who went back to the college ranks as head coach at McPherson College in Kansas. Also a thank you to governor Chris Palamorez and Troy Stehle, my outstanding equipment managers, and the trainer Dean Armitage (finest I have worked with). Now this really sounds like an Academy Award thank you!

Seriously, however, these fine people and a great group of players created such a bonding with each and every game on the road (and to some hot spots around the country) that the travel seemed insignificant and we all made this an adventure no team in football will ever endure again.

There were 16 games, or 16 weekends out on the road. To places like Daytona Beach, Florida, to start with and to Tampa where we ended the season. Despite winning only three games, five of the 14 league contests were decided by five or less points, meaning we could have been in the playoffs with an 8-6 record. I'm sure the league would have loved to have seen its traveling road show make the playoffs. But we all enjoyed, endured and enraptured the moments throughout the four months. It was a privilege working with this group.

The place where I did most of my work, including writing the media guide, was in my furnished apartment in the Houston-based complex where all of us (coaches and players) lived. We trained about eight miles away at the University of Houston and had a locker room setup under Robinson Stadium. I also did a lot of work out on the road. Had a wonderful laptop to do that work with.

Traveling every weekend was not a walk in the park. I used to limo to the airport 3 to 4 hours prior to the team even getting on the bus to George Bush Airport, which was 35 miles north of us. I would get all the seating for the team and by the time they got to the airport, I had all their boarding passes ready. I had to make sure the buses were on time for pickup and departure as well as at the other end (the home team). Overall, it was an outstanding grind to say the least. I'm glad we had the experience.

FS: Do you enjoy working as a columnist with the San Jose SaberCats? How do you like working with Director of Media Relations Phil Simon?

JH: I truly enjoy working with the SaberCats organization. I have since leaving the Houston situation in August of 2001. And, it's been exciting to be, in some ways, a part of two championship teams (2002 and 2004). Thanks to Hank Stern, the team vice president and Phil Simon, I've been able to write pretty much what has been going on with the 'Cats and the AFL. Columnists are supposed to write some biting things at times, but are also to be objective, concise and honest. I think we've done that and also been extremely informative to the SaberCats fans.

Our responses from fans are not just from those the San Jose area. We've heard from AFL fans in Illinois, California, New Jersey and Florida. We have also answered their questions as accurately as possible. It's been a fun ride with the column and also the special sections of the San Jose Mercury News, and I hope we can continue these projects for some time to come.

Working with Phil has been one of the great experiences in this business. We met my last year (1999) with the Forest Dragons. I appreciated helping Phil in those early years, and I'm just glad having him as a friend. He does exceptional work. His media guide is the best in the league, hands down. He has an ear to the players and they respect his professionalism. He's a veteran of the league now, along with Dan Pearson, and he should be recognized for his accomplishments.

FS: During the off-season the AFL made a major rule change now having free substitution. Were you a big fan of Ironman football? How do you feel about this rule change?

JH: Ironman Football WAS great for the AFL! I think it brought versatility out in a player who would normally never be able to play at the NFL level. The specialty of playing both ways was unique and it presented a lot of strategy for the coaches to deal with.

I'm more disappointed in changing the rules. I have seen what taking away most two-way players can do. First, there will not be as much passing as in the past. This was something the fans wanted; the ball in the air. Running the ball will keep the scores down. I have seen this in lower indoor leagues such as the NIFL and the PIFL.

Why some in the AFL want these new rules is beyond me. To think that the league has allowed an outside influence on the game is truly embarrassing. After 10 years of being associated with the Arena game, I think it is shameful and humiliating for someone like John Elway (whom I have called MyWay) run the table on this league. Before I get too enraptured with this subject. I will end on the fact that besides San Jose and Tampa Bay management and ownership totally against the new substitution rule, the majority of coaches voted (which was unofficial) against it.

FS: How come AFL didn't do well with their last television partner NBC? Do you think things will get better with ESPN buying part of the league and committing to a five year TV deal with the AFL? Can the AFL succeed on Monday nights, a day of the week with a lot of competition?

JH: The NBC deal sounded as if it were a good thing at the start. In fact, I surmised that financially it was a break-even situation. Of course, none of the teams received a dime from the profits (if there were some). The thing that killed this arrangement of sharing the money was only one thing: NBC could have cared less about Arena Football. It was real evident when NBC won a portion of the NFL contract that they didn't care two snorts from a bottle of whiskey about the AFL or where it could have gone.

How can it NOT be a better deal? ESPN is a sports network. Notice the 10-second promos already on ESPN and ABC? As one insider told me: ESPN is a network that cares more about sports than other programming.

I think the thing about playing on Monday night is good. However, I think the network MUST promote this evening correctly. Good promotion can make all the difference.

FS: Has the AFL having high profile people like Jon Bon Jovi, John Elway, Mike Ditka, and Ron Jaworski etc., really benefited the league?

JH: These celebrity ownership individuals are okay for the league, but to be honest, I don't think the general public or general fan base gives a darn. Oh, I can see putting on a celebrity face can get you a few more impressions, such as advertising and promotion, but for the most part the league should sell the game and its stars first and foremost. Fans don't pay to come to the games and see the individuals you mentioned. They come to see the game and all the hoopla around the game.

FS: Are you a fan of neutral site Arena Bowls? I saw you at ArenaBowl XVIII in Phoenix, Arizona when the SaberCats defeated the Arizona Rattlers 69-62. How was that experience?

JH: Establishing a neutral site is nice, but the league is a few years off, in my opinion. There are still a lot of owners and executives that believes the neutral site situation is not in the best interest of the league. Look, the AFL controls the entire neutral site situation, but also, the AFL controlled the home team site for ArenaBowls. In other words, all the money went to the AFL either way. And where was the most money made? At the site of the home team who had earned it through having the best record. And, the home site also GUARANTEED a sellout.

Did the two games in Las Vegas sellout? No! The one positive of a neutral site is being able to promote and sell tickets and sponsorships for an entire year or more ahead of the game. But if you get two teams with minimal fan base, you will not have a sellout, plain and simple.

An example of the only neutral-site championship game (outside the NFL's Super Bowl) to do extremely well was that of the Seattle Sounders playing the New York Cosmos in Portland, Oregon, in August of 1977 for the North American Soccer League trophy.

The Portland Timbers team and the NASL had a year to sell this game and even before the opponents were known, nearly 25,000 tickets had been sold in what was called in those days a Soccer City. What put this game over the top was the fact that the Sounders, whose fans purchased 12,000 tickets, and that Pele, the world's greatest soccer player, led the Cosmos (there were other stars too like Carlos Alberto, Franz Beckenbauer, Vladislav Bogievi; Giorgio Chinaglia, Rick Davis, Marinho Chagas, Andranik Eskandarian, Johan Neeskens, Werner Roth, Julio Cesar Romero and Roberto Cabanas on the team) were the two opponents.

There were more than 1,500 press at that game also, from all over the world, including 12 internationally broadcast TV's doing the game. Oh, the game attracted a standing room only house of 35,528. I'll never forget that number. It was MAGIC.

Yes, the neutral site can work with the right components and opponents. The year's lead-time also can help. But for now, go back to the home team and let the game sell out in front of a nationally televised audience.

FS: If you were Commissioner of the AFL what would you do to improve the sport?

JH: The first thing I would do is let the AFL get back to being the AFL! Wanting to act and be like the NFL is not in the cards. The AFL has to get back to the grass roots of doing business. Individuals at the league office work for the teams. Not the other way around. What may seem like a good thing from the people in the league office may not be in the best interest of the teams.

Professional sport leagues have been ruined by the actions of those at the league level, not necessarily those at the team level. More consideration should be made toward the teams.

I also would promote that some at the league level experience what goes on at the team level. Many have not worked in the trenches of a team before. Is that all there is? Well, you asked some great questions. I hope we've entertained your audience.

If you have any questions or comments about this interview feel free to email me at arenazone@yahoo.com and I will be more than happy to get back to you.

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Arena Football League (1987-2008) Stories from February 7, 2007


The opinions expressed in this article are those of the writer(s), and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts or opinions of OurSports Central or its staff.


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