OKC Yard Dawgz joining the IFL?

[jerry101jlh]

Right now would be a disaster to have another league join the free for all. Teams like Oklahoma City looking at options is only smart business. Some may look at Corpus joining the SIFL as good for the league, but I disagree. This league already has enough problems without another head strong owner trying to pull things their way. I could easily say that the SIFl is just making more mistakes. I don't know about Tufford, but have heard little good from any source. Forcade is another who is just bad for the sport in my opinion and if he handed an SIFL position another huge mistake.

[aball]

All AFL attendance comparisons are invalid until San Jose, Philadelphia and Kansas City are back in (not to mention New Orleans and Georgia).

The SIFL just asquired a solid franchise that has been around for over five years and an owner who has been involved in every aspect of indoor football. Bad for the IFL, great for the SIFL.

BTW, John Fourcade has been involved in just about every pro football league that has existed. He is a legend. Good for the SIFL.

[newiflfan]

[quote=""aball""]All AFL attendance comparisons are invalid until San Jose, Philadelphia and Kansas City are back in (not to mention New Orleans and Georgia).
[/quote]

So you're saying you can't even compare attendance figures of, say, Dallas? A team that played in both the "old" and the "new" leagues?

[Bouncer_Texxx]

It’s useless to argue with these "AFL is da bomb" guys... the IFL is that it is... a medium market league, and that's what it should try to remain. The AFL is for owners with far larger pocketbooks in larger metropolitan area and arenas.

Loosing Corpus might be the tip of the iceberg, it might well mean nothing in the end. Losing all of texas is also hardly a death blow to the IFL as the Texas teams never really caught on to the pure indoor rules...

BACK ON TOPIC.. OKC in the IFL,
Fits geographically, but without a Texas base, they're on the southern edge, but close to Wichita...

Makes sense financially if the current ownership is bleeding money in the AFL,

Fans... will freak out and boycott and make a big stink, and the AFL will claim OKC was a substandard franchise, attendance will be down, but was likely to be down anyways and all of that we've seen it all before.

In reality, does the AFL, for some reason seems terrified of what the IFL has to offer, (Never a positive thing to say from an arenafan, always "inferior and stupid" ) allow an IFL team, so close to their new HQ in Tulsa... they'd rather see OKC burn in financial ruin than give the IFL a fair shake, sad really, because your average IFL fan doesn't have such fear and loathing for the AFL.

[jerry101jlh]

[quote=""aball""]All AFL attendance comparisons are invalid until San Jose, Philadelphia and Kansas City are back in (not to mention New Orleans and Georgia).

The SIFL just asquired a solid franchise that has been around for over five years and an owner who has been involved in every aspect of indoor football. Bad for the IFL, great for the SIFL.

BTW, John Fourcade has been involved in just about every pro football league that has existed. He is a legend. Good for the SIFL.[/quote]

What can I say except no comment lol

[Caballo Diablo]

[quote=""aball""]Funny how Caballo failed to list the most successful AFL teams in his attendance figures. Which makes his whole post invalid.[/quote]
Really? Funny how your comprehension is weak. Seriously I don't think your comprehension is poor, I think you're just another homer that can't look at things realistically and have an actual discussion without twisting the facts.

I didn't pick and choose any of the teams, you gave a link, I just listed their previous figures given by the league themselves. I listed the entire league averages and who had the highest and lowest averages. You love to pick and twist to your favor, I stay more in the middle of the road and take the good with the bad where ever the chips fall. I don't direct the outcome of which pile they fall into.

If you want to talk about a specific team and how great they are I'm ok with that. Please tell us the about the most successful AFL attendance team.

[quote=""aball""]
Who said this AFL is equal to AF2? I've even read Caballo himself (who is currently the biggest AFL basher out there) say the 2010 AFL is between the 2008 AFL and the AF2.[/quote]
One true and one false statement, you've improved by 50%. Can you move farther towards reality? True, my personal opinion is the current AFL is better than the AFL but vastly lower than the previous AFL. I'm not sure you get credit here since I've stated it so many times across the forum galaxy it would be laughable to state anything different. False about the biggest AFL basher. I know some Indoor homers that do the same as you and a few others hating anything not their preference. Me, I enjoy all the leagues and discuss the pro's and con's of them all.

Tell you what, I'll offer you the same challange that a couple others have been unable to do. Find my bashing, provide links so we can all determine the context because I don't want Obama to fire me illegitmatly - lol . It would be best to start a new thread for it and probably in the "Indoor/Arena" section instead of one of the specific league pages. We wouldn't want this username banished also.


[quote=""aball""]
You say "fans on other boards" several times. I highly doubt you can speak for or represent other AFL fans opinions. In fact if you read the Arena Zone and Arena Fans sites, the fans are encouraged by the success of the AFL and the direction for 2011. On most of those forums, Caballo is often riduculed and made fun of and mostly ignored.[/quote]
This is where your confusion is highlighted. I didn't speak for or against their opinion. Many here read lots of boards and can judge for themselves, they don't need either of our opinions to influence them.

Most admit ther is a huge difference of opinion between former AFL and af2 fans. Most af2 fans are estatic, just as I had predicted before one game had been played. Most AFL fans admit it's alower product than they were accustomed to. Some are very unhappy while most are glad ArenaBall is back in any shape. Many directly associated with the sport and make a living off it have spoke up about their displeasure with the unprofessionalism in many areas of the business in year one.

Is responding to my posts with hatred really now classified as being "ignored?" - lol. Yes, some disagee with me and some agree. Sounds normal to me, well, unles you live in Homerville.
[quote=""aball""]
If you read these forums, there is a lot of postive AFL playoff talk. http://www.arenafan.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1[/quote]
I'm pretty sure most here know how to access ArenasFan and have done it before. Yes there are some positve talk over there, it's ArenaFan, Duh! The Zone would have given you more, maybe you should give us that link.
You seem to be an all or nothing kind of guy.

Let's look at some of the posters over there.
nolesrules - admin/site owner
Reppact - site mod
Jason Dixon - works for/with a team
AFLGURU (Adam Markowitz)- AFL/AF beat writer for many years
Andy Lopusnak - AFL/AF beat writer for many years
JPREDS - associated with a team for many years/writer
Dallas - (Kris) - AFL insider

Have you read their displeasure posts? They all love the sport and pray for it's success. Yet they are realistic and discuss the pro's and con's because they want to see improvement. Some of their posts/threads have been hotly contested by the homers. Please tell, what's your username over there? Mine is Caballo Diablo.

JungleBeast
DCSlasher
Rush43Bruiser
(I'll give you more if you wish)


These guys are longtime great fans of the AFL, but also speak realistically. You act like I'm the lone Ranger.

Here's another new thread idea for ya, let's go link for link. You post a homer link and I'll post a reality link. You post a happy fan and I'll post an unhappy fan. There's enough links for a lifetime on both sides of the fence.

[quote=""aball""]
With the unraveling of the IFL, the SIFL has become the premire indoor league in the South. [/quote]
I would exactly call tthe IFL unraveling, there are problems no doubt and we've been discussing them. While I like the SIFL and many people in it I'm not sure we can call it the "premier" league anywhere. I never supported or bought the IFL attempting to use it.

I was in the SIFL in year one and can tell you some horror stories (another thread - lol). I've said several times they picked up some good teams for this year, but we've all read the threads beating wounded and dead horses. I've talked with some owners and know some reasons why they are moving or staying put. It's not as simple as who some poster think are better or worse leagues.
premire
The only question is how many of the indoor teams move up to the proposed AF2.[/QUOTE]
The proposed af2/developmental league might be intriguing but will most likely still be far more expensive than any of the Indoor leagues. There is no structure and set plan for any owners to currently even include them in any decision making. The four af2 teams that left for Indoor and the ones still dark would be the most interested, but once again, no financial plan to consider yet.
[quote=""aball""]As you can tell, I'm an SIFL fan.[/quote]I'm convinced you're IndoorFan.

[Caballo Diablo]

[quote=""BlizzPack""]You have the road and home teams backwards (Jacksonville had 13,000 not Spokane, etc)

I wish Milwaukee drew 9000+ lol[/quote]
Thanks for the correction Ma'am, all of those lines tend to blur together sometimes - lol

You were an avid af2 and now AFL fan. Yet you can be honest about the difference in the two since you've experienced them both. You're biggest problem is Royale and It's completly understandable. Many are sad about some of the current AFL's concerns but that doesn't make them bashers.

[Caballo Diablo]

[quote=""aball""]All AFL attendance comparisons are invalid until San Jose, Philadelphia and Kansas City are back in (not to mention New Orleans and Georgia).[/quote]
Sooo, you're telling us this year is invalid? You just insulted every af2 fan and their market. Wow, you're thought process is truly baffeling.

[quote=""aball""]
BTW, John Fourcade has been involved in just about every pro football league that has existed. He is a legend. Good for the SIFL.[/quote]
BTW, he has been sending out resumes. And the coach that replaced him for the Mudbugs, err Wildcatters will be in the AFL next season.

[preeths]

[quote=""Caballo Diablo""]I'm convinced you're IndoorFan.[/quote]
And you are correct. He just registered a new name to circumvent his ban.

[nksports]

As Sigmond Freud once said (in German) "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar."

OK. Someone from the Wild went to an OKC game and visited with some OKC people, and suddenly one league is on the verge of collapse and one league is going to suck in every market down the pipe. (And from all the chatter its hard to tell who is taking who)

Who was the Wild official?
Under what capacity did he visit OKC?
Did he just watch the game and maybe hob-knob?
Does said person have any ties to OKC (or even the visiting team)? (ie former player, coach, staff member?)
Did one side or the other inquire about available players? (which often happens when someone from one team talks to someone from another team ... ie "Hey, your season is over and we need a (place position here) for the rest of the year. Can we sign him to finish out our season?")

I have briefly met some Wild people in the past but don't know any of them on a personal basis. But here are my thoughts:
The Wild owner could afford af2 and possibly AFL (and the losses that would come with it). He owns his own arena, but that arena is way too small for AFL (holds under 5,000 for indoor FB) and would probably not go to the downtown arena and have to pay rent. The GM and coaches have experience with both leagues and have ties with people in both leagues. (The Wild staffers also have experience with APFL, but would probably never go back there).
Hence, the Wild are standing pat.
For OKC, they could move down, but that may involve moving to the Fairgrounds Arena, which would be a tougher draw to get people to come. If dates were available and rent affordable, they could move into Ford Center, which is closer to most of the older AFL-type facilities. Plus they fit in well with Tulsa and Dallas. My guess, they will stand pat.

While they are rival leagues and often covet the same markets, not everyone in the one league hates everyone in the other league (and visa versa). I'm sure there are a lot of coaches and GMs that work together in terms of player scouting and the like (such as a player getting cut from one camp, but still has potential with another team, getting signed by another team).

Both leagues have problems and both leagues have some strong points. What may work in one city may not work in another. There will probably be owners going from one league to another in the next few years, looking for what works best for their team and their pocketbook.

There are a lot of people on this board who seem to be like kids on a playground saying "My dad can beat up your dad!" and the response being "So is your mother!" Next thing you know, they're getting into fights. While highly entertaining (in a Jerry Springer kind of way), it doesn't really shed a lot of light on the situation.

The AFL does draw a lot of fans. Do the clubs make money? Hard to say. The league is coming out of a two-year layoff, followed by bankruptcy and reorganziation with its junior partner af2. It will take several seasons to see how well it works.

The IFL had a relatively good year last year (outside of the Sioux Falls debacle and the league runner-up folding). This year was a disaster. An old Intense owner took his ball and went to the cheaper SIFL. Who else will follow? Who knows? Will the league break up in political clusters as some are saying? (maybe and IFL and a new UIF) Who knows? Is that just smoke some people are blowing up other people's butts, or something some disgruntled owners are using for leverage? What the league can't afford is more West Michigans or Alaskas.

The SIFL has some die-hard fans on here. It also had a disaster franchise. Will Ditman's teams help or hurt the league next year?

The AIFA had a couple of strong teams and had teams fold early. Their stock is probably way down. I could see some of their stronger teams bolt. The west continues to be a problem.

I would be surprised to see the CIFL back next year. Or if it did come back, it would be extremely weak.

The UIFL. If its management acts as it did in the past with the AIFL, I'd be measuring its life in weeks or days.

That leaves the APFL with four relatively strong teams for the first time in league history as the winner for this year. Congrats to the Iowa Blackhawks as back-to-back champs.