http://milehighmayhem.wordpress.com/201 ... om-haitus/
Said in positive approval of the Avalanche bypassing the ECHL for a CHL AA team (Tulsa Oilers).
What do you think? Will the ECHL make it in the long-term?
"The ECHL will not exist in five to ten years" -Avs fan blogger
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Minor League Man
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"The ECHL will not exist in five to ten years" -Avs fan blogger
Proud to be a veteran of these boards for the last 5 years...
Really, the basis for his opinion seems to be that an NHL team didn't choose the ECHL for its affiliate. Big deal.
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Buffalo Super Fan
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Minor league fans know how I feel. Minor league hockey is going to be under going major changes in the next 5 to 10 years like the 1970's in my opinion. The AHL could lose three teams Hartford, Hamilton and Winnipeg either to the NHL or another new major league in my opinion depending on how Gary Bettman and the NHL owners play it. The NHL is a mess in my opinion.
The first domino falling is going to be the Phoenix Coyotes NHL in december the political leaders in Glendale have a deccission to make on the Phoenix Coyotes sale they can't survive with the cap the NHL has $59 million dollars in my opinion without town assistance $$$ wise. If the local political people say no to assistance then it looks like back to Winnipeg for the Phoenix Coyotes. As a Buffalo Sabres fan where barely hanging on in the NHL and we actual draw fans and sellout regular it is over in Phoenix for the Coyotes in my opinion so your looking at Winnipeg back into the NHL. Which leaves Phoenix open for some kind of hockey either new league that I will talk about later in my post or minor league hockey returning to Phoenix/Glendale maybe the Phoenix Roadrunners V again for the Glendale Arena just a thought.
Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami, Tampa and Nashville might be new league possiblities with smaller salary caps they can survive in my opinion in major professional hockey but not at NHL Cap $59 million dollars in my opinion so that will affect minor league hockey in my opinion in the next few years.
Because the NHL sun belt teams are in alot of trouble in my opinion. I think the NHL will see both Quebec City and Winnipeg back in the NHL along with possible another Southern Ontario NHL franchise no matter what Gary Bettman is telling NHL hockey fans and media publicly now which will hurt my Buffalo Sabres if a team is placed in Hamilton, Ontario in my opinion. Because the sun belt franchises can't go on with a $59 million dollars NHL cap in my opinion.
If the NHL doesn't go to these markets like Winnipeg and Quebec City thats where it could get dicey. You might see a new league because Quebec City and Winnipeg are major league hockey markets in my opinion. Where I see the shake up in the minor leagues is if Gary Bettman is stubburn and insists on Phoenix and Atlanta etc I could see a new major hockey league for cities like Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford.
Because now you have Howard Baldwin involved in Hartford hockey again a former WHA/NHL owner of the New England Whalers/Hartford Whalers now with the Hartford Wolf Pack AHL soon to be renamed Connecticut Whalers AHL he also wants back in the NHL if he doesn't get into the NHL he could try to start a new league and pull the Connecticut Whalers out of the AHL now that he owns them down the road with control now of the Hartford Civic Center whatever they call it now XL Center I think in my opinion something to keep an eye on in Hartford.
Look around there is going to be changes on both levels NHL and minors in my opinion. The WHA at the end was Birmingham Bulls, Cincinnati Stingers who folded and went to the CHL and Hartford Whalers, Edmonton Oilers, Winnipeg Jets and Quebec Nordiques were admitted into the NHL. What's open now Hartford now that Howard Baldwin owns them, Winnipeg new arena open a couple years ago and Quebec City with the new arena planned with 45% finacing from the canadien government.
That is half of the old WHA open wanting major professional hockey back. I know someone will post they may want it but there not big enough. Well all I have to say is canada is hockey in my opinion and they agree with me no matter how many people are in the sun belt they don't go to hockey games in enough numbers to survive long term in the NHL. I know someone like Sam Hill on here will say so what. But it matters today because the sun belt teams were losing money before the economy was bad. With the economy bad in places like Phoenix and Florida today it is that much worse in my opinion. Plus when those teams were moved from canada the canadien dollars was very low to the US dollar that isn't the case today. Plus the NHL has revenue sharing in place after the new CBA with the NHLPA which also wasn't in place when Winnipeg, Quebec City and Hartford moved.
See that is why I say tv maps and population are only part of being major league you need fans that are interested and want to go to live games in person that are also interested spending there deposable income on NHL hockey merchandise etc. Jersey sales matter like Buffalo. We have new jerseys are coming out again September the 18th and they will fly off the Buffalo store shelves for Christmas. I already can't wait. I hope I able to buy some. Last time I got lucky and got one of the two new ones and that was the so called unpopular Buffalo Sabres Slug Jerseys. The new orginal logo restyled jerseys plus the rumored Buffalo Sabres third jersey with a old Buffalo Hockey Bisons AHL Buffalo style lettering accross a blue jersey in Buffalo Sabres colors will sell alot of jerseys in my opinion for the Buffalo Sabres 40th anniversary. That is part of being a major league market. Is Miami and Phoenix that excited for NHL hockey season I don't think so. I heard rumors Phoenix after there playoff appearance only has 4,000 season ticketholders. In Buffalo were caped at a little over 14,000 season tickets so that Buffalonians wanting only to go to a game or two can.
There is a season ticket waiting list in Buffalo called Blue and Gold some Sabres fans have been on the list for years already. If not many care in Phoenix and Miami how do you think that will affect tv and jersey sales etc for the NHL team. FYI the only NHL team not on national tv either Versus TV or NBC TV for atleast one hockey game this season is the Florida Panthers my Buffalo Sabres have 11 national tv appearances on versus alone plus were could be on NBC on the flexable schedule if were in the hunt for the playoffs this year.
Why do you think that big Miami zero national tv appearances and tiny little ol Buffalo 11 versus tv plus 3 possible NBC tv appearance? Because people care about hockey in Buffalo there national tv ratings are high. We once drew a 60 for local tv for a NHL playoff appearance.
Not many care in Miami and there team is awful because not many care or go to games so there most likely is no money to retain the talent like former Florida Panthers goalie now Vancouver Canucks and Team Canada Olympic gold medal winning starting goalie Roberto Luongo. I would think it will be worse this year attendance for the Florida Panthers NHL with Wade, James and Bosh playing for the Miami Heat NBA now. My Buffalo Sabres retain Team USA starting goalie and NHL superstar Ryan Miller because fans show up and care so we have the money to retain key players on the Buffalo Sabres roster. That is why I think there is a place for professional hockey in the sun belt but not in the NHL with those type of cap numbers. Maybe a new professional league like the UFL but for hockey is in order with lower salary cap numbers then $59 million dollars Phoenix and Miami can't hang with cities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh in the NHL in my opinion.
With Hartford, Winnipeg and Quebec City that is three of the old WHA markets in play for a potential new major hockey league all you need is 6 to 8 teams to start a new major hockey league in my opinion. Plus alot of cities with openings for hockey meaning no minor league hockey teams with control of the arena for hockey. Indianapolis that folded halfway thru the last WHA season Indianapolis Racers just has Indiana Pacers NBA in there arena, Seattle no major winter team in that market if a new arena can be built maybe there is a place for professional hockey team, Hamilton no major winter team in that market, Portland just has NBA in there arena, San Diego new arena has been talked about for years who knows same in Baltimore neither has winter major league teams, San Francisco new arena talked about for the Golden State Warriors NBA might a hockey team also join them, Brooklyn new arena going up for the New Jersey Nets if the New York Islanders don't move there they may be open to a hockey team joining them and Kansas City empty new arena no winter major league teams. Let's Go Buffalo
The first domino falling is going to be the Phoenix Coyotes NHL in december the political leaders in Glendale have a deccission to make on the Phoenix Coyotes sale they can't survive with the cap the NHL has $59 million dollars in my opinion without town assistance $$$ wise. If the local political people say no to assistance then it looks like back to Winnipeg for the Phoenix Coyotes. As a Buffalo Sabres fan where barely hanging on in the NHL and we actual draw fans and sellout regular it is over in Phoenix for the Coyotes in my opinion so your looking at Winnipeg back into the NHL. Which leaves Phoenix open for some kind of hockey either new league that I will talk about later in my post or minor league hockey returning to Phoenix/Glendale maybe the Phoenix Roadrunners V again for the Glendale Arena just a thought.
Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami, Tampa and Nashville might be new league possiblities with smaller salary caps they can survive in my opinion in major professional hockey but not at NHL Cap $59 million dollars in my opinion so that will affect minor league hockey in my opinion in the next few years.
Because the NHL sun belt teams are in alot of trouble in my opinion. I think the NHL will see both Quebec City and Winnipeg back in the NHL along with possible another Southern Ontario NHL franchise no matter what Gary Bettman is telling NHL hockey fans and media publicly now which will hurt my Buffalo Sabres if a team is placed in Hamilton, Ontario in my opinion. Because the sun belt franchises can't go on with a $59 million dollars NHL cap in my opinion.
If the NHL doesn't go to these markets like Winnipeg and Quebec City thats where it could get dicey. You might see a new league because Quebec City and Winnipeg are major league hockey markets in my opinion. Where I see the shake up in the minor leagues is if Gary Bettman is stubburn and insists on Phoenix and Atlanta etc I could see a new major hockey league for cities like Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford.
Because now you have Howard Baldwin involved in Hartford hockey again a former WHA/NHL owner of the New England Whalers/Hartford Whalers now with the Hartford Wolf Pack AHL soon to be renamed Connecticut Whalers AHL he also wants back in the NHL if he doesn't get into the NHL he could try to start a new league and pull the Connecticut Whalers out of the AHL now that he owns them down the road with control now of the Hartford Civic Center whatever they call it now XL Center I think in my opinion something to keep an eye on in Hartford.
Look around there is going to be changes on both levels NHL and minors in my opinion. The WHA at the end was Birmingham Bulls, Cincinnati Stingers who folded and went to the CHL and Hartford Whalers, Edmonton Oilers, Winnipeg Jets and Quebec Nordiques were admitted into the NHL. What's open now Hartford now that Howard Baldwin owns them, Winnipeg new arena open a couple years ago and Quebec City with the new arena planned with 45% finacing from the canadien government.
That is half of the old WHA open wanting major professional hockey back. I know someone will post they may want it but there not big enough. Well all I have to say is canada is hockey in my opinion and they agree with me no matter how many people are in the sun belt they don't go to hockey games in enough numbers to survive long term in the NHL. I know someone like Sam Hill on here will say so what. But it matters today because the sun belt teams were losing money before the economy was bad. With the economy bad in places like Phoenix and Florida today it is that much worse in my opinion. Plus when those teams were moved from canada the canadien dollars was very low to the US dollar that isn't the case today. Plus the NHL has revenue sharing in place after the new CBA with the NHLPA which also wasn't in place when Winnipeg, Quebec City and Hartford moved.
See that is why I say tv maps and population are only part of being major league you need fans that are interested and want to go to live games in person that are also interested spending there deposable income on NHL hockey merchandise etc. Jersey sales matter like Buffalo. We have new jerseys are coming out again September the 18th and they will fly off the Buffalo store shelves for Christmas. I already can't wait. I hope I able to buy some. Last time I got lucky and got one of the two new ones and that was the so called unpopular Buffalo Sabres Slug Jerseys. The new orginal logo restyled jerseys plus the rumored Buffalo Sabres third jersey with a old Buffalo Hockey Bisons AHL Buffalo style lettering accross a blue jersey in Buffalo Sabres colors will sell alot of jerseys in my opinion for the Buffalo Sabres 40th anniversary. That is part of being a major league market. Is Miami and Phoenix that excited for NHL hockey season I don't think so. I heard rumors Phoenix after there playoff appearance only has 4,000 season ticketholders. In Buffalo were caped at a little over 14,000 season tickets so that Buffalonians wanting only to go to a game or two can.
There is a season ticket waiting list in Buffalo called Blue and Gold some Sabres fans have been on the list for years already. If not many care in Phoenix and Miami how do you think that will affect tv and jersey sales etc for the NHL team. FYI the only NHL team not on national tv either Versus TV or NBC TV for atleast one hockey game this season is the Florida Panthers my Buffalo Sabres have 11 national tv appearances on versus alone plus were could be on NBC on the flexable schedule if were in the hunt for the playoffs this year.
Why do you think that big Miami zero national tv appearances and tiny little ol Buffalo 11 versus tv plus 3 possible NBC tv appearance? Because people care about hockey in Buffalo there national tv ratings are high. We once drew a 60 for local tv for a NHL playoff appearance.
Not many care in Miami and there team is awful because not many care or go to games so there most likely is no money to retain the talent like former Florida Panthers goalie now Vancouver Canucks and Team Canada Olympic gold medal winning starting goalie Roberto Luongo. I would think it will be worse this year attendance for the Florida Panthers NHL with Wade, James and Bosh playing for the Miami Heat NBA now. My Buffalo Sabres retain Team USA starting goalie and NHL superstar Ryan Miller because fans show up and care so we have the money to retain key players on the Buffalo Sabres roster. That is why I think there is a place for professional hockey in the sun belt but not in the NHL with those type of cap numbers. Maybe a new professional league like the UFL but for hockey is in order with lower salary cap numbers then $59 million dollars Phoenix and Miami can't hang with cities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh in the NHL in my opinion.
With Hartford, Winnipeg and Quebec City that is three of the old WHA markets in play for a potential new major hockey league all you need is 6 to 8 teams to start a new major hockey league in my opinion. Plus alot of cities with openings for hockey meaning no minor league hockey teams with control of the arena for hockey. Indianapolis that folded halfway thru the last WHA season Indianapolis Racers just has Indiana Pacers NBA in there arena, Seattle no major winter team in that market if a new arena can be built maybe there is a place for professional hockey team, Hamilton no major winter team in that market, Portland just has NBA in there arena, San Diego new arena has been talked about for years who knows same in Baltimore neither has winter major league teams, San Francisco new arena talked about for the Golden State Warriors NBA might a hockey team also join them, Brooklyn new arena going up for the New Jersey Nets if the New York Islanders don't move there they may be open to a hockey team joining them and Kansas City empty new arena no winter major league teams. Let's Go Buffalo
Last edited by Buffalo Super Fan on Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:08 am, edited 13 times in total.
The above post is in my opinion and I have no proof or link. I am just a Buffalo sports fan.
San Diego can't afford to fill a pothole, so don't look for a new arena to go up anytime soon. The Chargers have wanted a new stadium for years, and now they want the city to pay for most of it, so unless AEG (who currently operates the aged San Diego Sports Arena) decides San Diego needs a new arena, it absolutely will not happen. The only hockey in San Diego is currently San Diego State, which plays NCAA D-2 club hockey in a public ice arena. The closest pro hockey is Ontario in the ECHL, then the Ducks, then the Kings. Boy are we screwed.
[quote=""preeths""]Really, the basis for his opinion seems to be that an NHL team didn't choose the ECHL for its affiliate. Big deal.[/quote]
Indeed. Business decisions. Happen every day. Yet people want to ascribe cosmic significance to them.
This is what happens with the democratization of information and opinion. The truth is, not everybody's opinion should be available to the masses.
Indeed. Business decisions. Happen every day. Yet people want to ascribe cosmic significance to them.
This is what happens with the democratization of information and opinion. The truth is, not everybody's opinion should be available to the masses.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""Buffalo Super Fan""] Minor league hockey is going to be under going major changes in the next 5 to 10 years like the 1970's in my opinion. [/quote]
It's been undergoing major changes for the last 5 to 10 years. Ten years ago there were 136 hockey teams in the NHL and six minor leagues. The IHL, WPHL and WCHL have gone away, as have shorter-term leagues like the ACHL and SEHL, not to mention WHA2, which never got off the ground.
The Isles should move to Brooklyn, because the arena on Long Island is a dump. Doesn't mean they can or will, or that that means anything other than they'll move, not that there'll be a domino effect.
It's been undergoing major changes for the last 5 to 10 years. Ten years ago there were 136 hockey teams in the NHL and six minor leagues. The IHL, WPHL and WCHL have gone away, as have shorter-term leagues like the ACHL and SEHL, not to mention WHA2, which never got off the ground.
What? Hartford? Hamilton? Another new major league? Did they legalize marijuana in New York state?The AHL could lose three teams Hartford, Hamilton and Winnipeg either to the NHL or another new major league in my opinion depending on how Gary Bettman and the NHL owners play it.
You haven't been keeping up with the story, obviously. You're several months behind.The first domino falling is going to be the Phoenix Coyotes NHL in december the political leaders in Glendale have a deccission to make on the Phoenix Coyotes sale they can't survive with the cap the NHL has $59 million dollars in my opinion without town assistance $$$ wise. If the local political people say no to assistance then it looks like back to Winnipeg for the Phoenix Coyotes.
Crack is still plentiful and affordable in Buffalo, I guess.As a Buffalo Sabres fan where barely hanging on in the NHL and we actual draw fans and sellout regular it is over in Phoenix for the Coyotes in my opinion so your looking at Winnipeg back into the NHL.
Unlikely.Which leaves Phoenix open for some kind of hockey either new league that I will talk about later in my post or minor league hockey returning to Phoenix/Glendale maybe the Phoenix Roadrunners V again for the Glendale Arena just a thought.
Which is why they've had major league hockey all these years. Oh, wait...You might see a new league because Quebec City and Winnipeg are major league hockey markets in my opinion.
No frigging way. First off, that ain't major. Second off, starting a new major hockey league? Good luck.Where I see the shake up in the minor leagues is if Gary Bettman is stubburn and insists on Phoenix and Atlanta etc I could see a new major hockey league for cities like Quebec, Winnipeg and Hartford.
Whale, not Whalers. Unfortunate choice. I'm guessing Karmanos held firm.Because now you have Howard Baldwin involved in Hartford hockey again a former WHA/NHL owner of the New England Whalers/Hartford Whalers now with the Hartford Wolf Pack AHL soon to be renamed Connecticut Whalers
No, I'll say "You're on crack." Because you're on crack.That is half of the old WHA open wanting major professional hockey back. I know someone will post they may want it but there not big enough. Well all I have to say is canada is hockey in my opinion and they agree with me no matter how many people are in the sun belt they don't go to hockey games in enough numbers to survive long term in the NHL. I know someone like Sam Hill on here will say so what.
Okay, so you're only 3-5 short. Actually, you're 6-8 short, because you're just assuming stuff and it's not a certainty that Baldwin wants to go through starting a whole new league. Even if he did, you're several owners shy of a league.With Hartford, Winnipeg and Quebec City that is three of the old WHA markets in play for a potential new major hockey league all you need is 6 to 8 teams to start a new major hockey league in my opinion.
An arena built for basketball, one that is not as good for hockey as the building it replaced.Indianapolis that folded halfway thru the last WHA season Indianapolis Racers just has Indiana Pacers NBA in there arena,
If they were going to build a new arena, they'd have done it for the Sonics. They didn't.Seattle no major winter team in that market if a new arena can be built maybe there is a place for professional hockey team,
Of all of those cities you mentioned (most of which are "mights" in your mind), only Kansas City is a real possibility and they've swung and missed at everything, much to the chagrin of AEG, which promised to deliver a major anchor tenant for Sprint Center. Hasn't happened.Hamilton no major winter team in that market, Portland just has NBA in there arena, San Diego new arena has been talked about for years who knows same in Baltimore neither has winter major league teams, San Francisco new arena talked about for the Golden State Warriors NBA might a hockey team also join them, Brooklyn new arena going up for the New Jersey Nets if the New York Islanders don't move there they may be open to a hockey team joining them and Kansas City empty new arena no winter major league teams. Let's Go Buffalo
The Isles should move to Brooklyn, because the arena on Long Island is a dump. Doesn't mean they can or will, or that that means anything other than they'll move, not that there'll be a domino effect.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Sam Hill, my only disagreement with everything you posted is in regards to the WCHL. The league did cease to exist, as they merged with the ECHL. I think you might see the WCHL re-form in the next few years, and the ECHL will continue without the WCHL teams. They could still play some interleague games, but only if the leagues adopted similar salary structures. The main reason for the leagues splitting, IMO, would be for the reigning in of travel costs. I also think the leagues could have a playoff at the end of the season, similar to what AAA baseball does, to determine an overall "AA hockey" champion. Perhaps this could also be a way of getting hockey back in San Diego again--I'm getting pretty desperate here.
[quote=""Buffalo Super Fan""]Quebec City with the new arena planned with 45% finacing from the canadien government. [/quote]
Yeah, probably not gonna happen.
Yeah, probably not gonna happen.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
