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not so fast
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Post by not so fast » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:39 pm

Well, if the team had all naia players and d-2 players, i think you would be saying, his players all come from small schools.

Now with that being said, no one is a bigger supporter of small school players, and I also wholeheartetly reject the idea that a big school players is always better. There are of course exceptions, and I have seen them many a times at different camps, small school players outplaying big school players.

Well since I don't understand how the d league works, then whats the process of getting better players or making roster moves? If Will is this brilliant coach, then he should be able to find and get better talent, for heavens sake, he has an army of support here on the message boards, then why can't he get better players if thats the problem?

Obviously he got them in Vermont in the ABA and the PBL. And I also think this discussion should be on the D league board.

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Post by CHris902 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:56 pm

"not so fast" wrote:Obviously he got them in Vermont in the ABA and the PBL. And I also think this discussion should be on the D league board.

I think there's two things at play here:

1) The very best D-league players are acquired through league allotment and NBA assignments. I haven't been following the Jam, but I am pretty sure that one of their allotted players was Robert Swift - you surely can't blame Voigt for the fact that the league chose Swift for his team and then the guy decided within a few weeks that he never wanted to play pro-basketball again.

2) I think Voigt does a good job of identifying and recruiting a specific type/level of player - those marginal pro guys who fit well within a system, play hard and are never getting a sniff of the NBA or Euro League. He did a great job of finding these guys, getting them to buy in and he did a good job as an in game coach.
I think that the careers of guys who left Vermont backs this up - he sent tons and tons of players over to low division European and Asian leagues, but to the best of my knowledge hasn't really sent any guys to top flight European leagues and only one or two guys to the D-League.

And those are just issues around player selection. I think his major problem is that the D-league is very much about guys desperately trying to get to the next level and Voigt liked to **** around with minutes (I remember lots of starters get 26 minutes, bench get 22 minutes, players only on the floor for 3 minutes at a time games), press on defense and do a lot of other things that I can see D-league players not reacting well to.

I'd liken his transition to the Rick Pitino NBA experiment. You would never say that Pitino is a bad coach, but it's clear that the NBA was not a good fit for him. I think it's a similar situation with Voigt. Good coach, bad fit.

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Post by ABARedWhiteBlue » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:55 am

"not so fast" wrote:Obviously he got them in Vermont in the ABA and the PBL.


But...
the other teams in the D-League get a higher caliber player than almost every other PBL/ABA team Voigt competed against.

The ABA teams stock their rosters with pretty much local guys who won't need housing; the ABA team that can widen their search for players will draw better talent from a larger pool - which the Heaves did well in the ABA.

The PBL has a wider net, but still has a strong local flavor, so if your region doesn't produce high-quality players, it will be reflected by your roster.

The D is an affiliated league with a national footprint, plus they are at the mercy of what their affiliated teams provide, I believe.
Proud to be "Mean-spirited blogger #10K" ;)
And we believe it is better to have critics and people who care than not to have interest at all. Joe Newman 6/30/05
I never said the ABA had the greatest numbers regarding retention of teams. OldSchoolBaller (neither did we :rolleyes: )
The ABA has tarnished minor league professional basketball throughout this country Ed Krinsky 2/15/06
We are now making some adjustments to our schedule - Joe Newman 10/9/08 in perpetuity

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bdyer
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Post by bdyer » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:39 pm

Someone was asking how the team could be improved.

The Jam just traded the rights for the injured Justin Hawkins to Iowa for John Edwards a week after acquiring Ahearn through a trade. It will be interesting to see how Voigt uses Edwards and Brian Butch, but the talent level is definitely rising in Bakersfield.

Meaning it was lower before.

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Post by bectond » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:29 am

You are what your record is and dude does too much yelling. His players cut themselves rule does not apply in the D-league because most of the best players in that league don't want to be there. You can't fill a D-league roster based on rah rah enthusiasm. You'd have to know the landscape/talent beforehand and base your decisions on skill and he obviously did not know the landscape.
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Post by basketball facts » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:10 pm

You can have all the excuses in the world but it is your record that makes the final statement. I think the guy could not make the adjustment to pro basketball. I do not feel that winning in the ABA with lower level players getting paid 50 bucks a game is pro ball. The guy can't adjust and he is losing. Some guys just can't step up to a bigger league and deal with better players. This is the case here

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bdyer
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Two questions

Post by bdyer » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:07 pm

How many Jam games have you watched this season and last season?

Was Will mean to you or a player you like?

I ask because it seems that when folks here post in the manner you are, there is usually some back story.

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Post by basketball facts » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:50 pm

Just stating the facts. The won/loss record is the fact. Your so sensitive

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Post by not so fast » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:59 pm

They did just drop to 4-17 and have the worst record in the D league.

Bdyer, At some point, don't you think he has to take some responsibility?

If not, then he has the best basketball job in the world, lose and get paid and no accountablity.

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Post by ABARedWhiteBlue » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:05 am

"not so fast" wrote:They did just drop to 4-17 and have the worst record in the D league.

Bdyer, At some point, don't you think he has to take some responsibility?

If not, then he has the best basketball job in the world, lose and get paid and no accountablity.


NSF - you exaggerate.

Joe Newman has the best basketball job in the world; everyone else can only hope for second place.
Proud to be "Mean-spirited blogger #10K" ;)
And we believe it is better to have critics and people who care than not to have interest at all. Joe Newman 6/30/05
I never said the ABA had the greatest numbers regarding retention of teams. OldSchoolBaller (neither did we :rolleyes: )
The ABA has tarnished minor league professional basketball throughout this country Ed Krinsky 2/15/06
We are now making some adjustments to our schedule - Joe Newman 10/9/08 in perpetuity

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