CBA / NBDL Merger

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mzracing76
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Post by mzracing76 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:21 pm

the best run the CBA ever had was 1985-1997. we had at the most, 17 teams (1991-92). and had teams all across the country, and the average league wide attendance was around 3500 per game. by the 90s, several teams (Sioux Falls, Rapid City, Lacrosse, Mexico City, Oklahoma City, Wichita Falls, etc) all averaged more than 4000 fans per game. I know Rapid City averaged more than 6000 fans on year, Sioux Falls averaged more than 5000 fans from 1994-2000, Fort Wayne and Oklahoma City also averaged 4500 fans or more on several occasions.

To me, the best years are gone. the talent sucks, the players suck, and all of the great coaches from the great CBA era of 1985-1997 are gone. guys like Flip Saunders, Bill Musselman, Eric Musselman, Dan Pannagio, Mike Thibault, Mo McHone, Sonny Allen, Corey Russell, Russ Bergman are all either done, in college, or in the NBA.

Back in the 90s (1990-199 8) it was nothing for my team (Sioux Falls SKyforce) to have players play for us for 3-5 years. Cedric Hunter played in the CBA for 11 years, Henry James played in the CBA for 5-7 years, and the CBA's all time leading scorer played 12 seasons. We dont have that type of player anymore these days. nowadays, all we have are show me the money type of players.

as for merging the two leagues (CBA & NBDL). as for the stats? they would all co-unit as one. This is what the CBA did when it changed from teh EBA to the CBA in 1978. it kept the EBA Stats seperate from the Modern CBA Stats. but they recognized those stats in the CBA Guide & Register every year. so that is what would happen in a future merger.

THE NBDL does not need 30 teams. what needs to happen is the CBA needs a strong 16-18 team league, the NBDL needs a strong 16-18 team league, and a third league (ABA, IBL, etc) needs a strong 16-18 team league. if we can get this from a good 3 leagues, we would have a great minor league system. Each NBA team can sign contracts with 1-2 teams from this list. that would give you 48 teams for the 27-30 NBA teams to sign deals with.

As for attendance, each Minor League team needs a strong Front OFfice System (like Sioux Falls & Dakota). Management teams that go out and make an effort to sell season tickets and promote the team. that was one of the major reasons that the NBDL went after the SKyforce and Wizards so heavily. two teams that help teach the other NBDL teams how to run a business.

What makes the Sioux Falls Skyforce and Dakota Wizards franchises so successful? they each have successful basketball Operation's Directors. They each have a Business Side, and a Basketball side. most minor league owners try to do it all themselves, but the good owners will go out and hire a Good Basketball Director.

from 1994-2000, Sioux Falls had a Vice President of Basketball Operations (Tommy Smith) who was a Head Coach in the GBA before coming to Sioux Falls, He along with our coaches (Flip Saunders, Mo McHone) all offered their thoughts, signed players, and recruited players. Sioux Falls was able to bring in some big names back in the day (Henry James, Darryl Dawkins, Corey Beck, Stacy King, Jason Sasser, Quinton Daily, Cedric Hunter, etc). We made great trades. But we also had a Business Department that sold tickets. from 1995-2000, Sioux Falls averaged 2500-3000 season tickets a year, while averaging 4000-5000 fans a game during that time. thats waht makes a great team at this level.

Minor League Basketball wont work in LA, NY, Minneapolis. to big. We need markets with populations of 100,000 to 200,000 people. that is where this league will be strongest at. Trust me, i have been a Fan of the CBA (Skyforce) for more than 15 years (1989-present), and have seen where the league's dont work.

We need Rivalries again. Sioux Falls vs Rapid City was the biggest draw the CBA had back in the early 90s. So was the Yakima Sun Kings vs Tri City Chinook (Washington) rivalry. Sioux Falls also had Fargo to the north, and Omaha to the south. We now have Bismark to the north, but to me, the Dakota Wizards dont pose the big time rivalry that was the Sioux Falls vs Rapid City rivalry (Flip Saunders vs Eric Musselman) days. a intra-state rivalry is the best.

but with out good talent, we dont have a strong league. I do not favor this development system the NBDL uses. I dont like the fact we cant go out and get players with 5-10 years experience. we are a young league, and that translates into mistakes, bad ball movement, and above all, it translates into chemistry issues, too many selfish players.

REMEMBER: STACY KING (skyforce) once turned down a 10-day contract offer from the Boston Celtics (1996-97) to stay in Sioux Falls and help the team win a title. that was big for the fans and showed his loyalty to the team and his teammates.

MZ

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Post by SignGuyDino » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:49 am

I'm thinking the NBA does need a 30 team minor league, but have it set to where they play in 4 divisions only with no interdivisional play, maybe 20 games. The point is to evaluate talent and get players in playing shape. Have the season from say Sept.-Feb. That way, the players will be in optimal shape for call-ups right before the NBA stretch run.

I also think that the NBA should endorse, if not actually run, a decent summer league that plays from Mar.-Jun., with maybe 12 teams. Basically, a WBA type league but one that is actually very well run.

IBL is the only spring league that comes to mind as credible enough but they don't play a strict NBA style (which is frankly fine by me).

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Post by ChumpDumper » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:44 pm

I agree somewhat with the spring league idea, but the D-League season needs to run roughly concurrently with the NBA season. The draft occurs right after the last cuts are made in NBA training camps when the best players become available. I do think there might be an argument to shorten the D-League season by a week or two to avoid the playoff roster conflicts that have happened in the past, but some relaxation in the send down/call up rules could help that.

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Post by mzracing76 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:48 am

Shorten the season to 20 games? that wont fly, this is still about the fans in certain cities. especially Sioux Falls and Bismark. if they shorten the season, then Sioux Falls and Bismark might as well go back to the CBA.

you guys come up with some stupid idea's.

if anything, they will increase the games with the more teams we get. 56-60 games a year if we have 16-20 teams.

no interdivisional games? your nuts.

I already hate the NBDL, your making me want to go back to the CBA more and more now.

MZ

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Post by jjbballfan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:05 am

I agree with you alot MZ.... I laugh when they say the NBDL needs to go after the east coast and so on..... In Sioux Falls the majority of the time when the Skyforce are playing its the best entertainment in town, it gets recognition on the television stations and gets a pretty nice write up in the paper... Something you would never see in an east coast city..... All of those things are big factors in getting endorsements and attendance figures up there.

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Post by DakotaWizardsFan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:05 pm

If the season was shortened to 20 games, I'd definitely want the Wizards to go back to the CBA.. and I guess I'd want the Skyforce to do the same because I don't want to lose our biggest rivalry.
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Post by USBasket_EricE » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:18 am

[quote=""jjbballfan""]I agree with you alot MZ.... I laugh when they say the NBDL needs to go after the east coast and so on..... In Sioux Falls the majority of the time when the Skyforce are playing its the best entertainment in town, it gets recognition on the television stations and gets a pretty nice write up in the paper... Something you would never see in an east coast city..... All of those things are big factors in getting endorsements and attendance figures up there.[/quote]

Exactly. Same thing with teams that are located in or near an NBA city, like Anaheim, Fort Worth, and LA. Those teams are just there for the purpose of developing players. They aren't the prime basketball team in town, so they don't get any recognition, neither from the fans nor the media. If the NBA ever does try to get each NBA franchise to buy their own D-League team, I would hope they'd place those teams at least 100 miles from their NBA cities. I don't like what the Lakers did with the D-Fenders. That team hardly has any fans and gets absolutely no recognition unless something unusual happens like Jordan Farmar playing in a D-League game and an NBA game on the same day. I like what the Spurs did in purchasing the Toros. Austin is far enough away from San Antonio and is able to build up its own fan base. The Toros are the best basketball talent in nearly a 100 mile radius, so basketball fans will go to their games.

Of the 4 new expansion teams, I'm guessing that Orem will be the least successful, with it being only 40 miles from the Jazz in SLC. Those two cities are large and, when I was riding through the area about a year and a half ago, they seemed to be connected with all the small suburb towns between them. Fort Wayne and Hidalgo are in NBA states, but they are far enough away from the NBA cities, so they should do OK. Fort Wayne also has a basketball history. Des Moines is in the middle of Iowa and nowhere near an NBA city, so I would hope that they'd get good numbers in attendance. I don't know how well they did with the Dragons back in the IBA days, but that team did have a winning tradition and, even though the Energy are a completely different team, the fans will remember how good the other team was and they'll attend games expecting to see more of the same.

I'm curious to see which Atlanta-based basketball team will draw more fans this year, the NBA Hawks or the CBA Krunk. The Hawks always seem to flat-out suck, so maybe fans will pack some high school gym (or wherever that team finally decided to call home) to see what the CBA team has to offer!

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Post by ChumpDumper » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:50 am

I don't like what the Lakers did with the D-Fenders.
They are moving next season, but only 40 miles east.
The Toros are the best basketball talent in nearly a 100 mile radius, so basketball fans will go to their games.
With the huge exception of UT, yes. The expectations for the Toros have been pretty small from the beginning, and I believe those are the kind of expectations most D-League teams should have.
Of the 4 new expansion teams, I'm guessing that Orem will be the least successful, with it being only 40 miles from the Jazz in SLC.
I think the fact it has been created and marketed as the Jazz farm team has helped it immensely. They have reportedly sold 4000 season tickets for their temporary home in Orem, and their permanent home is supposed to be located in some kind of utopian development the owner is spearheading in Lehi. A TV deal is reportedly in the works too.
Fort Wayne also has a basketball history. Des Moines is in the middle of Iowa and nowhere near an NBA city, so I would hope that they'd get good numbers in attendance.
Those will be interesting cases. There are already a ton of minor league and college teams playing in each market and I think there may be some expectation in those cities that anything less than selling out their large arenas may be seen as a failure.

Hidalgo may have the same kind of issue, especially with the CBA team five miles away following a model closer to that of the Toros.

I think eventually, Cuban is going to get his own D-League franchise and give the metroplex another shot.

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USBasket_EricE
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Post by USBasket_EricE » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:59 am

Well, if that's the case for Orem, hopefully they do well. That Utah Eagles team in the CBA was a failure last season, but weren't they in SLC?

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Post by nksports » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:25 am

[quote=""ChumpDumper""]and their permanent home is supposed to be located in some kind of utopian development the owner is spearheading in Lehi.[/quote]

Wasn't that what Brigham Young had in mind when he settled Salt Lake City? ;)

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