...the Explosion look to be back with the IBL??

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not so fast
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Post by not so fast » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:10 am

Thank you guys for your support, and I do have a habit of being kind of straight to the point, but why mence words on a message board? If you find any people better than these guys from battle creek, then let me know who they are. And what a shame they have to uproot and change leagues.

As I look at thie situation more closely, it looks like dulio really had the ibl west, and then has elkhart for a championship game. He then suckers other people into playing in the east to get the money, and really dont give two cents about them, which is why he encourages them to pay the players next to nothing, so they can survive, and pay their franchise fees, to subsidized his real ibl, the western division and his pocket.

If the teams out east are bad, or have problems, such as the Gary steelheads did and that disaster all star game, he just sits by and does nothing. Never attends, never goes to any of the eastern teams games, and shows them little or no support.

There were solid players on the Gary team, and what commissioner would sit buy and want some of the best players to ever play in the ibl to have this experience, and not step in and do something? Only someone who deep down who doesn't really view the eastern teams as part of the league.

Also Barry Bradford and the windy city team as well as the Holland people do not deserve to be played like this. dulio is a used car salesman, and he has just sold a bunch of lemons to a lot of good people.!

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Post by Pounder » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:36 pm

I think it's more complicated than west/east. Duilio has had a hard time keeping the WEST stable.

I have a feeling he sells franchises to bolster the cash for HIS teams. I think he wants a league where he's the winner, though he may be sacrificing that for at least having a semi-viable west. I'm not sure that's being achieved.

Used car salesman, maybe. Maybe a "true believer"... problem being that this isn't the time for true believers whose business sense lacks.
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Post by preeths » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:49 pm

[quote=""not so fast""]Unless dulio addresses the questions about the finances and the lack of support from the commissioners office, and a just a general concern for the league improving, you will see more teams leave. Chicago, and Holland may be next.

The owners of this league are meeting without dulio, which is a serious red flag!!

The people that run Battle Creek, are some of the best people, in all of minorleague basketball!! This is a big blow to the ibl, and a big pickup for the PBL!

I am trying to inform you that the concerns I have, are not just me crying wolf. There are other owners in this league who have the same concerns, and even more, and dulio has not answered.

I have no ax to grind, I met him only once, he was polite , and he treated one of my players at the all star game great back then. I think he just has gotten comfortable, and has no need to put in extra work, as long as he is making his money. The questions is, are teams going to sit around and allow him to get away with it? Thank God, Battle Creek and others are saying NO![/quote]

That's a reasonable position and all I was asking for. I for one didn't say your concerns were unfounded. I know some of them are well-founded, particularly after the league's struggles with its playoffs. But you have to be responsible when you make your criticisms. Words like "fraud" and "theft" have specific legal meanings, and you need some proof when making those types of allegations. Saying teams don't get value for their money is a probably a lot more reasonable position and sounds more like what we're talking about.

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:25 pm

[quote=""winds55""]The PBL may work for Battle Creek, but it won't work for Elkhart.

1. Too much competition from high school basketball (the Express draws from two Elkhart High Schools, Concord, Goshen, Northridge and Northwood - all with tremendous fan backing) - this IS Hoosier Hysteria country, you know.
2. Potential of too much competition from college basketball - Notre Dame men's and women's teams have a fairly strong fan base that gets more rabid when they're winning. Plus Indiana and Purdue on TV if not in person
3. No place to play - both Elkhart Schools play at North Side.

Plan C?[/quote]

Plan C is Gary comes back to the IBL and renews its rivalry with Elkhart. I don't know what's going on with the Steelheads though. BTW, the PBL won't work for Battle Creek either. I'm a firm believer in if you can't make it in the spring, then you sure as heck won't make it in the fall/winter (with more competition).

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Post by DazedAndAmused » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:41 pm

[quote=""Ken, Steelheads fan""]Plan C is Gary comes back to the IBL and renews its rivalry with Elkhart. I don't know what's going on with the Steelheads though. BTW, the PBL won't work for Battle Creek either. I'm a firm believer in if you can't make it in the spring, then you sure as heck won't make it in the fall/winter (with more competition).[/quote]

I know nothing about Battle Creek or why they moved to winter ball, but this I totally disagree with:

if you can't make it in the spring, then you sure as heck won't make it in the fall/winter (with more competition).

Why? Summer minor league ball has an inherent problem in business terms in that nobody cares because there is baskteball burnout at this time of the year. Don't kill the messenger on this. And, it has nothing to do with the IBL perse. It's a fine summer league. It's simply a bad time of year to be playing basketball as far as fans (and business) are concerned. Having said that, there is a place for summer leagues. But, it's apples and oranges when compared to the winter leagues. Those who are involved with the business understand that.

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Ken, Steelheads fan
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It's more of a statement about the PBL, IMO.

Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:09 am

[quote=""bballnut14""]I understand Battle Creek is out. They are moving to the PBL. Gary, Elgin and now Battle Creek. You know something is not right, when Battle Creek one of the more stable organization is moving. What is Elkhart going to do. I think Chicago is even thinking about the PBL. Has Mike talked with Battle Creek to see why they are leaving.

I really did think this league was the real deal. From what I heard nobody from the league office even came out east during the season. Not even during the play offs. With out having face to face comunication with your owners, there is no league that will be successful.

I am sad to see Battle Creek leaving. I wish them the best of luck. They have great ownership. I really like there new coach as well. He has time for everybody. You can tell he has a passion for youth, and I like the way he teaches his players to care about there fans. Especially the kids.

Good Luck Battle Creek we will miss you.[/quote]

Duilio And the IBL assistant commissioner were in Gary March 14th thru March 16th for the IBL festival and the Steelheads vs. USA all*star games. I saw them with my own two eyes.

not so fast,
You seem to refuse to believe that the people in Gary are responsible for their own actions. How can you expect Duilio to market FOR the Steelheads?!? Especially a league that bills itself as being low-budget. Especially for an organization (Steelheads) that's been around for eight seasons and should know how to market.

...with THAT said, the Harris family has gone through stressful times unrelated to basketball. I'm certain THAT had much to do with the way the season turned-out. Things happened this year that I've never seen happen before.

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:27 am

[quote=""DazedAndAmused""]I know nothing about Battle Creek or why they moved to winter ball, but this I totally disagree with:

if you can't make it in the spring, then you sure as heck won't make it in the fall/winter (with more competition).

Why? Summer minor league ball has an inherent problem in business terms in that nobody cares because there is baskteball burnout at this time of the year. Don't kill the messenger on this. And, it has nothing to do with the IBL perse. It's a fine summer league. It's simply a bad time of year to be playing basketball as far as fans (and business) are concerned. Having said that, there is a place for summer leagues. But, it's apples and oranges when compared to the winter leagues. Those who are involved with the business understand that.[/quote]

No, I don't kill messengers. It's not my style. I'm primarily thinking of costs. IMO, there's no fan interest in fall/winter minor league hoops (with very few exceptions). Why switch to a fall/winter league that's arguably more expensive?!?

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Post by runninref » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:27 pm

Remember, Battle Creek will now be in direct competition for the players that typically go overseas or play in other leagues during the Winter season. This is something they did not have to deal with in the IBL. With that said, it will be an uphill battle to find good players willing to turn down good money for so so money. I do wish them the best though and given the dedication and class that the ownership has shown over the years, they should be fine. :mrgreen:

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Post by winds55 » Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:46 am

We Elkhart Fans will miss Battle Creek. It was a good rivalry. Even if their PA guy didn't like us. :p

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Post by bballnut14 » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:24 am

Must be the spring league was not working for Battle Creek. Why not give another season and league a try. They compete with there baseball team, and the nice weather in the spring. In the winter, I am sure people in Battle Creek are looking for something to do.

I had a friend that ran into the Battle Creek coach at the PBL camp in Chicago. He had stated that he was really going to miss playing in Elkhart. He said it was a great place to play, and he has great respect for the Elkhart coaching staff and there fans.

I sure hope the IBL does everything they can to keep Elkhart around. If it were my league, I might pay team to stick around. I also think that the league should consider making Damion, Asst. Commis. He sure does no how to do things. I am sure the league could use his experience.

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