Minor league basketball died July 9, 2008

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MontanaFella
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Post by MontanaFella » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:37 pm

[quote=""tops804""]Can we seperate one thing here? Are we talking "minor league", or "semi-pro"?
When building a marketing plan and following, there is a difference. With
basketball, I would believe that the NBDL is the only true minor league.[/quote]

Sorry to jump in like this. I have been enjoying this quality thread with pretty solid insight. I couldn't help but be bothered by the Minor League or Semi-Pro comment. Semi-Pro is a non sequitor no one who knows anything about sports should ever use the term. If you do something and get paid for it you are a professional, you don't have to call the CBA a 'minor league' even though it is, but don't insult the groups intelligence by lending credence to the term Semi-Pro.

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The problem with a "classification pipeline"

Post by panchess » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:16 pm

in minor league basketball is simple. Very few players come out "through the ranks." It works in baseball and hockey because a lot of players turn professional right out of high school (or even earlier, in the case of Latin American baseball players) and are developed by the teams. Therefore, the teams need the players and the players need the teams.

The NFL dumped its spring NFL Europe experiment because they didn't "see the bang for the buck." If anything, the current D-League is too big to meet the legitimate development needs of the NBA. They probably would be better off using the model of extended spring training in baseball, where the D-League prospects (no offense to Randy Livingston, but I am taking about the guys with limited pro experience out of college or high school) work with coaches and play games in "teams" that have some flexibility.

A "private" minor league should focus on building its own stars and networks. I agree with Ken that the Northern League is probably a better model for any non D-League minor league than AAA baseball.

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Yeah, what he said...

Post by turbocamyes » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:27 pm

[quote=""panchess""]in minor league basketball is simple. Very few players come out "through the ranks." It works in baseball and hockey because a lot of players turn professional right out of high school (or even earlier, in the case of Latin American baseball players) and are developed by the teams. Therefore, the teams need the players and the players need the teams.

The NFL dumped its spring NFL Europe experiment because they didn't "see the bang for the buck." If anything, the current D-League is too big to meet the legitimate development needs of the NBA. They probably would be better off using the model of extended spring training in baseball, where the D-League prospects (no offense to Randy Livingston, but I am taking about the guys with limited pro experience out of college or high school) work with coaches and play games in "teams" that have some flexibility.

A "private" minor league should focus on building its own stars and networks. I agree with Ken that the Northern League is probably a better model for any non D-League minor league than AAA baseball.[/quote]



My post, before panchess beat me to the punch:

Ah, so many issues …

First, the idea that there is or can be a correlation between the minor leagues in baseball and basketball is wrong. While you might use the AAA, AA, & A designations to distinguish the level of play between the various domestic leagues, you can’t when discussing if a prospect is ready for the NBA. Baseball’s AAA level teams have up to 60 percent of their roster ready to play in the majors, made up of both prospects and former major leaguers, while AA and A teams are full of prospects. Basketball is different. The D-League will have possibly 2 to 3 ready to contribute or ride the bench in the NBA, most of whom are players that NBA teams at one time hid on the DL but can now “send” down to play. The days of Charlie Criss are over. Two years ago the Lakers were the only team that “owned” a D-Team and only two players, Farmar and Patterson, were on their next summer league and pre-season rosters. This meant that the other 10-12 players were merely showcasing their talents for scouts, or, more likely, riding the bench. I haven’t looked at this year’s Orlando and Las Vegas rosters closely, but even with the Spurs in the mix, I’m guessing the results will be the same.

Second, while I hope that the CBA will return to form, as a pipeline to the NBA, it is now dead. I won’t say that the NBA has purposely shut down the flow of players from the CBA, especially players with some NBA experience, but if players are no longer being called up, then it is better financially for them to head overseas. To play in the D-League next to or behind someone under contract to an NBA team just doesn’t make sense.

And finally, let’s not forget that the PBL is made up of former ABA teams stocked with former ABA players. You can call the operations of the ABA and some of its owners “semi-pro”, but it is unfair the label the players in the league as such. Many have moved on to the CBA, D-League or overseas.

...and I was going to use Livingston as an example too, I just thought my post was too long.

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Post by psbf » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:36 pm

I don't know why the NBA now preferrs to do business with the D-League, but Issiah Thomas sure messed things up for this league(from what I've heard). I could be wrong, but it's apparent that the NBA does have something against the CBA, since they no longer accept players from this league. I admit, I do watch some D games on NBA tv, because they remind me of when I'm watching the Xplosion at home. But the NBA refusing to allow any more call-ups from this league is only another reason why I preferr WNBA games to the men's sport. What I do know, is that this league faces an uncertain future as far as the coming season.

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Post by formerlyknownasfells » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:00 pm

[quote=""MontanaFella""]Sorry to jump in like this. I have been enjoying this quality thread with pretty solid insight. I couldn't help but be bothered by the Minor League or Semi-Pro comment. Semi-Pro is a non sequitor no one who knows anything about sports should ever use the term. If you do something and get paid for it you are a professional, you don't have to call the CBA a 'minor league' even though it is, but don't insult the groups intelligence by lending credence to the term Semi-Pro.[/quote]

You hit it right on. The term "semi-professional" implies that the players do not get paid. I have worked with semi-pro football teams and they actually pay to play. (Dues, own equipment, etc.) If you are paid to play, you therefore lose your amateur status. Players in the ABA, CBA, PBL, etc are paid to play and are under contract to receive compensation.

I know many don't like the ABA, but it is professional basketball. If they are paid a dollar a year, they are considered professionals.
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Post by TheStandard » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:35 pm

[quote=""psbf""]I don't know why the NBA now preferrs to do business with the D-League, but Issiah Thomas sure messed things up for this league(from what I've heard). I could be wrong, but it's apparent that the NBA does have something against the CBA, since they no longer accept players from this league. I admit, I do watch some D games on NBA tv, because they remind me of when I'm watching the Xplosion at home. But the NBA refusing to allow any more call-ups from this league is only another reason why I preferr WNBA games to the men's sport. What I do know, is that this league faces an uncertain future as far as the coming season.[/quote]

The NBA doesnt do business with the D-League. The D-League is part of them. They created the D-league so they don't have to deal with the CBA, ABA,PBL. The NBA only wants to handle with the rest of the world and themselves. Why? because minor league basketball in the US has been trampled by idiots that have destroyed it.

Isiah Thomas killed the CBA and virtually between him and that bastard of Joe Newman, they have killed minor league basketball.
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Post by DazedAndAmused » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:52 pm

[quote=""MontanaFella""]Sorry to jump in like this. I have been enjoying this quality thread with pretty solid insight. I couldn't help but be bothered by the Minor League or Semi-Pro comment. Semi-Pro is a non sequitor no one who knows anything about sports should ever use the term. If you do something and get paid for it you are a professional, you don't have to call the CBA a 'minor league' even though it is, but don't insult the groups intelligence by lending credence to the term Semi-Pro.[/quote]

This is a quality thread. I'll jump in to the "semi pro" comments.

The term as accepted by most i have encountered can refer to a league where some players get and some do not. So, you can technically have both amateur and professional players in a semi pro league. Some leagues (I won't name names) actually require players to be paid SOMETHING, in which case they should take the "professional" badge. Others don't have this requirement (even perhaps discouraging paying players when possible) and thus deserve the "semi pro" label.

"Semi pro" can also apply to leagues where equipment, per diem for road trips, and other fringe benefits are provided but the players are not paid a salary or per game fees necessarily, and they also do not "pay to play."

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Post by Pounder » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:01 pm

Maybe minor league basketball SHOULD die.

It's time for "reserve team" basketball.

That's not what you want. You want your town to have a functioning team.

You have to take collective action and demand a system of promotion and relegation. Quadruple the number of teams. I do believe European countries do it for basketball in much the way it happens in soccer.

The best way to get fans interested in your town is to make the reward meaningful.

Just don't be surprised if the NBA doesn't capitulate.
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Post by psbf » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:30 pm

With all due respect, Pounder, some of us can only afford to watch minor league Basketball(as has been previously mentioned).

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Post by preeths » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:44 pm

[quote=""DazedAndAmused""]This is a quality thread. I'll jump in to the "semi pro" comments.

The term as accepted by most i have encountered can refer to a league where some players get and some do not. So, you can technically have both amateur and professional players in a semi pro league. Some leagues (I won't name names) actually require players to be paid SOMETHING, in which case they should take the "professional" badge. Others don't have this requirement (even perhaps discouraging paying players when possible) and thus deserve the "semi pro" label.

"Semi pro" can also apply to leagues where equipment, per diem for road trips, and other fringe benefits are provided but the players are not paid a salary or per game fees necessarily, and they also do not "pay to play."[/quote]

By and large, this is the definition OurSports Central uses.

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