[quote=""MontanaFella""]Sorry to jump in like this. I have been enjoying this quality thread with pretty solid insight. I couldn't help but be bothered by the Minor League or Semi-Pro comment. Semi-Pro is a non sequitor no one who knows anything about sports should ever use the term. If you do something and get paid for it you are a professional, you don't have to call the CBA a 'minor league' even though it is, but don't insult the groups intelligence by lending credence to the term Semi-Pro.[/quote]
Not meaning to ruffle any feathers with the semi-pro separation. I guess I'm
forgetting that independent baseball is considered minor-league as it has no
major league that can safety net it in a crisis. My point was that with an
independent like the CBA, the league plan has to be more centralized. In its
current state, it's hard to figure how a solution to the CBA losing teams can
include being anything less then a regionalized league.
Still on thread, I can't see the CBA and ABA playing interleague games as
anything less then a desperate move to salvage the 2008-09 season (and
maybe an audition for the ABA teams to move to a better league in 2009).
Minor league basketball died July 9, 2008
[quote=""DazedAndAmused""]why do people think the CBA can not play with 5 teams?
I for one think a league can play with 5 teams. I have my doubts though when the teams are spread out by an average of 2000 miles.[/quote]
I can see a five team league surviving, for one season. The problem is that
the teams are so far spread out around the country. Would fans want to
see long road trips and three games in three nights against the same one
or two teams? Truth be told, here is where ABA play could help.
Problems?
1) Will the ABA teams show up?
2) CBA regions that lack teams seem to be the same regions that lack ABA
teams. Minot would have travel issues anywhere within the ABA or CBA.
ABA east opponents for East Kentucky, Pittsburgh, and Albany all seem to
have question marks around them.
3) Rio Grande Valley and Lawton are in a region in which ABA teams have
traditionally fallen off the map by mid-January.
I for one think a league can play with 5 teams. I have my doubts though when the teams are spread out by an average of 2000 miles.[/quote]
I can see a five team league surviving, for one season. The problem is that
the teams are so far spread out around the country. Would fans want to
see long road trips and three games in three nights against the same one
or two teams? Truth be told, here is where ABA play could help.
Problems?
1) Will the ABA teams show up?
2) CBA regions that lack teams seem to be the same regions that lack ABA
teams. Minot would have travel issues anywhere within the ABA or CBA.
ABA east opponents for East Kentucky, Pittsburgh, and Albany all seem to
have question marks around them.
3) Rio Grande Valley and Lawton are in a region in which ABA teams have
traditionally fallen off the map by mid-January.
Adios, OSC message boards. (2007-2017)
[quote=""psbf""]That only sounds like an excuse to me, Pounder. I don't care how big the size of a market is. Even with competition from other sports, there can be room for another team, if it is marketed and promoted correctly. Also, another important part is communication, which you need in a business to keep customers satisfied. So don't give me this hogwash about the size of a market or the level of play. I'm not bying it.[/quote]
But therein lies one of the biggest problems. It generally costs more to correctly market and promote a team in a large city such as Pittsburgh than it does in a smaller community. Radio, television and newspaper advertising all cost more. News, promotions or team events the media covers in places like Butte and Yakima are typically ignored by the Pittsburgh media. There's just so much more going on there.
But therein lies one of the biggest problems. It generally costs more to correctly market and promote a team in a large city such as Pittsburgh than it does in a smaller community. Radio, television and newspaper advertising all cost more. News, promotions or team events the media covers in places like Butte and Yakima are typically ignored by the Pittsburgh media. There's just so much more going on there.
OurSports Central - //www.oursportscentral.com
OSC on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/oursportscentral
OSC on Twitter: http://twitter.com/osctoday
OSC on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/oursportscentral
OSC on Twitter: http://twitter.com/osctoday
-
formerlyknownasfells
- Site Admin
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:11 pm
[quote=""preeths""]But therein lies one of the biggest problems. It generally costs more to correctly market and promote a team in a large city such as Pittsburgh than it does in a smaller community. Radio, television and newspaper advertising all cost more. News, promotions or team events the media covers in places like Butte and Yakima are typically ignored by the Pittsburgh media. There's just so much more going on there.[/quote]
Paul is dead on here. Take for example a comparison between Burlington and Pittsburgh. At a top rated station in Burlington, a 30 second ad would run about $45.00 per spot while in Pittsburgh it would be about five to six times that. The same goes for the newspapers where ad rates are significantly higher in a major market than in a smaller one. Why is this? Simply, there is a greater population and more people are reached.
One has to be REALLY good at marketing to make a team succeed in a large area. Take Pittsburgh as an example. You have the Steelers, Pirates, Sixers, Penguins and the colleges that suck up all of the attention. How is a team like the Xplosion going to compete with the big boys? As much as I love the minor leagues, this is why minor league teams tend not to succeed in major markets; there is just too much going on.
Paul is dead on here. Take for example a comparison between Burlington and Pittsburgh. At a top rated station in Burlington, a 30 second ad would run about $45.00 per spot while in Pittsburgh it would be about five to six times that. The same goes for the newspapers where ad rates are significantly higher in a major market than in a smaller one. Why is this? Simply, there is a greater population and more people are reached.
One has to be REALLY good at marketing to make a team succeed in a large area. Take Pittsburgh as an example. You have the Steelers, Pirates, Sixers, Penguins and the colleges that suck up all of the attention. How is a team like the Xplosion going to compete with the big boys? As much as I love the minor leagues, this is why minor league teams tend not to succeed in major markets; there is just too much going on.
"Of all of the things I have lost, I think I miss my mind the most."
I can see
your points, in some regards. But I feel that even if the Xplosion only put an add in print like the paper(s) or smaller publications that get significant readership, they still get word out and give local fans a choice and even get more involved with local schools with Basketball programs to let them know that we have a pro team. Why should college and High School be the only choices here?! Fans are limited to the Steelers, Pens and Pirates and, even though other pro teams here are minor league, they are still choices! We are still a big market(biggest in the CBA) which means fans have choices. Just because the Xplosion are trapped in a lease agreement with the venues(M.A. and the Pete) does not mean that they have to go without promoting even if just a little. What makes it even harder is the potential lack of a season upcoming. But they can still promote camps. You think that this city has too many teams in competition. I don't see it that way! The Xplosion drew great crowds to a couple games this past season, which gives me reason for optimism. I'm sure many on here will look at it as 'big deal', though. Let's just agree to disagree, as far as the Xplosion.
..not only that..
..but it isn't like the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette is five times larger than the paper in Yakima or even Minot to compensate for the number of teams and the size of the market.
On the top line of the Post-Gazette web site are the three major league teams in the city (even the NBA doesn't rate the top line in Pittsburgh because there is no NBA team there), Pitt, Penn State and West Virginia in college (and I doubt WVU would be there if they weren't in the same league as Pitt). High School sports get a line, and so does hunting and fishing.
Duquesne doesn't. Neither do the Xplosion, Robert Morris, or other schools in Pittsburgh. All of them would be on the top line in a smaller market.
On the top line of the Post-Gazette web site are the three major league teams in the city (even the NBA doesn't rate the top line in Pittsburgh because there is no NBA team there), Pitt, Penn State and West Virginia in college (and I doubt WVU would be there if they weren't in the same league as Pitt). High School sports get a line, and so does hunting and fishing.
Duquesne doesn't. Neither do the Xplosion, Robert Morris, or other schools in Pittsburgh. All of them would be on the top line in a smaller market.
Wrong, Panchess. The Mountaineers(WVU) would be listed regardless of their Big East rivalry with Pitt because they are not just a league rival, but they are considered another local team. Morgantown is only an hour South of here and they also consider Penn State relatively local as well. Yet the media here does not cover what they consider 'non-pro' sports, even though the Riverhounds and Xplosion play professionally. But neither has their own venue, which is the key. Both used to get average coverage, but it has since discontinued.
CBA example... San Jose Jammers. They were in a market where the Golden State Warriors have to fight to get attention away from the 49ers, Raiders, Giants, and Athletics. Heck, Stanford and Cal-Berkeley are relegated to getting basketball scores on the ticker most of the time. Just think what happens these days with the Sharks and Earthquakes in town.
Notice that AAA teams in Denver and Phoenix were never the best draws in the PCL... but have averaged "well enough" in the majors... and Portland Beavers don't draw well in a one-major market.
I can go on and on.
It's not an opinion to me. It's generally proven, and the few exceptions prove the rule. It's the law of sports gravity.
More marketing will only drive up the break-even income requirement, which will likely either raise ticket prices or put the owners in debt faster... unless there's something so uniquely creative that people take notice. That's usually where the exceptions (St. Paul Saints) arise.
Actually, an exercise... how much do the Steelers or Penguins advertise? How much do the Pirates advertise? I bet the Pirates have to sell hard, the Penguins possibly a modest amount, and the Steelers probably only advertise pre-season games and ancilliary activities. Sounds to me like what I saw in S**ttle. I know very well the Trail Blazers didn't have to advertise squat for 20 years until the Jail Blazers caused attendance to go south.
Notice that AAA teams in Denver and Phoenix were never the best draws in the PCL... but have averaged "well enough" in the majors... and Portland Beavers don't draw well in a one-major market.
I can go on and on.
It's not an opinion to me. It's generally proven, and the few exceptions prove the rule. It's the law of sports gravity.
More marketing will only drive up the break-even income requirement, which will likely either raise ticket prices or put the owners in debt faster... unless there's something so uniquely creative that people take notice. That's usually where the exceptions (St. Paul Saints) arise.
Actually, an exercise... how much do the Steelers or Penguins advertise? How much do the Pirates advertise? I bet the Pirates have to sell hard, the Penguins possibly a modest amount, and the Steelers probably only advertise pre-season games and ancilliary activities. Sounds to me like what I saw in S**ttle. I know very well the Trail Blazers didn't have to advertise squat for 20 years until the Jail Blazers caused attendance to go south.
Mean Spirited Blogger #107
[quote=""DazedAndAmused""]I follow your numbers, and I follow your logic.
My question is really about the ability to actually execute such a plan...eg, find 20 people who want to do it, keep them on the same page, manage the issues associated with doing business with family, etc.
There will of course be exceptions, but as a general rule, I don't see those types of business arrangements (in any business, not just the business of sport) working in such a way that it can become the industry model that can be counted on to sustain minor league basketball.
Therefore, whether we like it or not, I believe we will be stuck (for a while at least) with "high-end" budgets of 250k to 300k average, funded by guys with semi-deep pockets that are willing to do it. We'll still have the 40k and below budgets in the ABA and IBL.
I don't want to be right about this. It's just what I see happening.[/quote]
Here are two articles that discuss the Sonic ownership group:
Pay close attention to the bold print and a few articles on two NHL ownership groups.
The Oklahoman
Businessman Clayton I. Bennett has formed an ownership group seeking a permanent NBA franchise for Oklahoma City: either the Hornets, whose success has become a national sensation, or a relocated franchise.
"The bottom line is, we want a team for this market," said Bennett, president of Dorchester Capital in Oklahoma City.
Bennett said his group would be interested in partnering with Hornets owner George Shinn, should the Hornets remain in Oklahoma City. Shinn has started seeking both local and national investors for the Hornets in an attempt to reduce a large debt incurred a year ago when he bought out partner Ray Wooldridge.
Shinn was in New York on Thursday and unavailable for comment."We would hope we could establish a local, community ownership group to own the team with George," Bennett said.
But Bennett said his group plans to be proactive in securing a franchise for the Ford Center should the Hornets return to New Orleans.
Business leaders in broad coalition
Bennett's group includes Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward of Chesapeake Energy Corp., and G. Jeffrey Records, Jr. of MidFirst Bank. Those three and Bennett are the members of Oklahoma Professional Sports, LLC, the organization that partnered with the city and state in providing a revenue guarantee for the Hornets this season.
Bennett said he has at least four other civic and business leaders who are interested in joining what would be a broad-based group. Bennett said he also envisions a larger collection of investors, in the spirit of building a community ownership platform.
Shinn and NBA Commissioner David Stern both have said they hope to return to New Orleans in 2007-08, but have stopped short of guarantees.
"We are absolutely committed to the Hornets this year and next," Bennett said. "But we also are 100 percent committed to finding a team for this city in the long-term."
In recent days, Seattle SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz has gone public with his displeasure of that franchise's lease with Key Arena. Schultz said that unless the Sonics get a building upgrade -- extensive renovations or a new arena -- he will sell the Sonics, Seattle's original major-league franchise.
State help is the Sonics' primary hope, and the Washington state Legislature dismisses for the year on March 9, so the Sonics have a month to lobby. Washington legislators have been less than promising with their recent comments. Renovation costs to Key Arena have been estimated at $200 million.
Both Bennett and Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said they have not spoken with anyone from the Sonics.
The Sonics are reported to be worth about $300 million.
Oklahoma City; Kansas City, Mo.; Anaheim, Calif.; and Las Vegas have been mentioned as possible candidates for NBA relocation.
In November, one game into the Hornets' home season, Stern visited the Ford Center and said, "I can say without reservation that Oklahoma City is now at the top of the list" for expansion or relocation.
Bennett formerly was on the San Antonio Spurs Board of Directors and Stern has called him a "great friend of the NBA."
"We want to make sure we stay first on that list," Bennett said. "For us to be on the radar screen and in the hunt is where I think we ought to be. We need to be proactive."
Bennett said the ideal for Oklahoma City is an ownership group based on the Spurs model. The Spurs are owned by a group of civic leaders and corporations that turn all profits back into the franchise and ensure its stability in San Antonio.
This is the second article out of Seattle:
OKLAHOMA CITY Four more Oklahoma City businessmen are joining the ownership group that is buying the Seattle SuperSonics.
The new members announced Sunday are William M. Cameron, president and CEO of Oklahoma City-based American Fidelity Assurance Co.; Bob Howard, president of Mercedes Benz of Oklahoma City; Everett Dobson, executive chairman of Oklahoma City-based Dobson Communications Corp.; and Jay Scaramucci, president of Oklahoma City-based Balon Corp.
Clayton I. Bennett, chairman and managing partner of Professional Basketball Club LLC, announced in July that his group would buy the Sonics and WNBA Storm for $350 million. The sale is subject to league approval and is expected to be addressed at the NBA Board of Governors meeting on Oct. 24.
"This is a dynamic group of accomplished business people," Bennett said in a statement. "They bring business insight from a variety of demanding market categories including finance, banking, real estate, insurance, automotive, telecommunications, energy and investment management."
The original partners in the group are Bennett, president of investment firm Dorchester Capital; Aubrey K. McClendon, chairman and CEO of Chesapeake Energy Corp.; G. Jeffrey Records Jr., president and CEO of MidFirst Bank; and Tom L. Ward, chairman and CEO of SandRidge Energy Inc. All four companies are based in Oklahoma City.
The group was initially formed in February and set out to find an NBA team for Oklahoma City. However, Bennett has said the new owners intend to keep the teams in Seattle, provided a new arena deal can be reached within a 12-month deadline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Spirit, LLC is a partnership headquartered at 101 Marietta St., Atlanta, GA. They own the NBA's Atlanta Hawks and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers, as well as Philips Arena along with Nintendo Company of America Ltd. The nine partners who comprise the group are Steve Belkin, Michael Gearon, Jr., Bruce Levenson, Ed Peskowitz, J. Rutherford Seydel, Todd Foreman, J. Michael Gearon, Sr., Bud Seretean, and Beau Turner[1]. These nine businessmen are divided into three groups, each headquartered in Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and Boston, and each group shares equal voting power within the group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE) is the owner and operator of the Toronto Maple Leafs National Hockey League team, Toronto Raptors National Basketball Association team, Toronto FC Major League Soccer team, and Toronto Marlies American Hockey League team — all based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
As of 2003:
58% - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
15% - CTVglobemedia
14% - TD Bank Financial Group, through TD Capital Group
13% - Kilmer Sports Inc. (Owned by Larry Tanenbaum)
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. Board of Directors:
Larry Tanenbaum - Kilmer Sports (non-executive chairman of the board)
Richard Peddie (president and CEO)
Jim Leech - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Robert Bertram - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Dean Metcalf - Teachers' Merchant Bank
Ivan Fecan - CTVglobemedia
Robert MacLellan - TD Capital Group
Dale Lastman - Goodmans LLP
Erol Uzumeri - Teachers' Merchant Bank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Edmonton Investors Group Limited Partnership was a the limited partnership that owned the Edmonton Oilers of the National Hockey League
As of January 2008, the ownership of the EIG was as follows:
Shareholder Percentage Held
Dave Addie 1.735%
Neal Allen
Jakob Ambrosius
Manuel Balsa
Ted Barrett
Edwin E. Bean 8.00%
Gordon Buchanan
Bill Butler
Michael Dalton
The Edmonton Journal
Ernie Elko
Gary Gregg 9.14%
Don Hamilton
Ron Hodgson 1.735%
Jim Hole 9.14%
J.R. Paine and Associates
Brian Hryniuk 1.735%
The Estate of Gerald Knoll.[8]
Chris Kuchar
Larry M. Makelki
Todd McFarlane
Tim Melton
Art Mihalcheon
Cal Nichols 8.00%
Brian Nilsson
Marcel Roberge
Roger Roberge
Harold Roozen
Bruce Saville 9.14%
Dale Sheard
Simon Sochatsky
Rusty Stalwick
Keith Weaver
Jim Zanello
My question is really about the ability to actually execute such a plan...eg, find 20 people who want to do it, keep them on the same page, manage the issues associated with doing business with family, etc.
There will of course be exceptions, but as a general rule, I don't see those types of business arrangements (in any business, not just the business of sport) working in such a way that it can become the industry model that can be counted on to sustain minor league basketball.
Therefore, whether we like it or not, I believe we will be stuck (for a while at least) with "high-end" budgets of 250k to 300k average, funded by guys with semi-deep pockets that are willing to do it. We'll still have the 40k and below budgets in the ABA and IBL.
I don't want to be right about this. It's just what I see happening.[/quote]
Here are two articles that discuss the Sonic ownership group:
Pay close attention to the bold print and a few articles on two NHL ownership groups.
The Oklahoman
Businessman Clayton I. Bennett has formed an ownership group seeking a permanent NBA franchise for Oklahoma City: either the Hornets, whose success has become a national sensation, or a relocated franchise.
"The bottom line is, we want a team for this market," said Bennett, president of Dorchester Capital in Oklahoma City.
Bennett said his group would be interested in partnering with Hornets owner George Shinn, should the Hornets remain in Oklahoma City. Shinn has started seeking both local and national investors for the Hornets in an attempt to reduce a large debt incurred a year ago when he bought out partner Ray Wooldridge.
Shinn was in New York on Thursday and unavailable for comment."We would hope we could establish a local, community ownership group to own the team with George," Bennett said.
But Bennett said his group plans to be proactive in securing a franchise for the Ford Center should the Hornets return to New Orleans.
Business leaders in broad coalition
Bennett's group includes Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward of Chesapeake Energy Corp., and G. Jeffrey Records, Jr. of MidFirst Bank. Those three and Bennett are the members of Oklahoma Professional Sports, LLC, the organization that partnered with the city and state in providing a revenue guarantee for the Hornets this season.
Bennett said he has at least four other civic and business leaders who are interested in joining what would be a broad-based group. Bennett said he also envisions a larger collection of investors, in the spirit of building a community ownership platform.
Shinn and NBA Commissioner David Stern both have said they hope to return to New Orleans in 2007-08, but have stopped short of guarantees.
"We are absolutely committed to the Hornets this year and next," Bennett said. "But we also are 100 percent committed to finding a team for this city in the long-term."
In recent days, Seattle SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz has gone public with his displeasure of that franchise's lease with Key Arena. Schultz said that unless the Sonics get a building upgrade -- extensive renovations or a new arena -- he will sell the Sonics, Seattle's original major-league franchise.
State help is the Sonics' primary hope, and the Washington state Legislature dismisses for the year on March 9, so the Sonics have a month to lobby. Washington legislators have been less than promising with their recent comments. Renovation costs to Key Arena have been estimated at $200 million.
Both Bennett and Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said they have not spoken with anyone from the Sonics.
The Sonics are reported to be worth about $300 million.
Oklahoma City; Kansas City, Mo.; Anaheim, Calif.; and Las Vegas have been mentioned as possible candidates for NBA relocation.
In November, one game into the Hornets' home season, Stern visited the Ford Center and said, "I can say without reservation that Oklahoma City is now at the top of the list" for expansion or relocation.
Bennett formerly was on the San Antonio Spurs Board of Directors and Stern has called him a "great friend of the NBA."
"We want to make sure we stay first on that list," Bennett said. "For us to be on the radar screen and in the hunt is where I think we ought to be. We need to be proactive."
Bennett said the ideal for Oklahoma City is an ownership group based on the Spurs model. The Spurs are owned by a group of civic leaders and corporations that turn all profits back into the franchise and ensure its stability in San Antonio.
This is the second article out of Seattle:
OKLAHOMA CITY Four more Oklahoma City businessmen are joining the ownership group that is buying the Seattle SuperSonics.
The new members announced Sunday are William M. Cameron, president and CEO of Oklahoma City-based American Fidelity Assurance Co.; Bob Howard, president of Mercedes Benz of Oklahoma City; Everett Dobson, executive chairman of Oklahoma City-based Dobson Communications Corp.; and Jay Scaramucci, president of Oklahoma City-based Balon Corp.
Clayton I. Bennett, chairman and managing partner of Professional Basketball Club LLC, announced in July that his group would buy the Sonics and WNBA Storm for $350 million. The sale is subject to league approval and is expected to be addressed at the NBA Board of Governors meeting on Oct. 24.
"This is a dynamic group of accomplished business people," Bennett said in a statement. "They bring business insight from a variety of demanding market categories including finance, banking, real estate, insurance, automotive, telecommunications, energy and investment management."
The original partners in the group are Bennett, president of investment firm Dorchester Capital; Aubrey K. McClendon, chairman and CEO of Chesapeake Energy Corp.; G. Jeffrey Records Jr., president and CEO of MidFirst Bank; and Tom L. Ward, chairman and CEO of SandRidge Energy Inc. All four companies are based in Oklahoma City.
The group was initially formed in February and set out to find an NBA team for Oklahoma City. However, Bennett has said the new owners intend to keep the teams in Seattle, provided a new arena deal can be reached within a 12-month deadline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Spirit, LLC is a partnership headquartered at 101 Marietta St., Atlanta, GA. They own the NBA's Atlanta Hawks and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers, as well as Philips Arena along with Nintendo Company of America Ltd. The nine partners who comprise the group are Steve Belkin, Michael Gearon, Jr., Bruce Levenson, Ed Peskowitz, J. Rutherford Seydel, Todd Foreman, J. Michael Gearon, Sr., Bud Seretean, and Beau Turner[1]. These nine businessmen are divided into three groups, each headquartered in Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and Boston, and each group shares equal voting power within the group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE) is the owner and operator of the Toronto Maple Leafs National Hockey League team, Toronto Raptors National Basketball Association team, Toronto FC Major League Soccer team, and Toronto Marlies American Hockey League team — all based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
As of 2003:
58% - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
15% - CTVglobemedia
14% - TD Bank Financial Group, through TD Capital Group
13% - Kilmer Sports Inc. (Owned by Larry Tanenbaum)
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. Board of Directors:
Larry Tanenbaum - Kilmer Sports (non-executive chairman of the board)
Richard Peddie (president and CEO)
Jim Leech - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Robert Bertram - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Dean Metcalf - Teachers' Merchant Bank
Ivan Fecan - CTVglobemedia
Robert MacLellan - TD Capital Group
Dale Lastman - Goodmans LLP
Erol Uzumeri - Teachers' Merchant Bank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Edmonton Investors Group Limited Partnership was a the limited partnership that owned the Edmonton Oilers of the National Hockey League
As of January 2008, the ownership of the EIG was as follows:
Shareholder Percentage Held
Dave Addie 1.735%
Neal Allen
Jakob Ambrosius
Manuel Balsa
Ted Barrett
Edwin E. Bean 8.00%
Gordon Buchanan
Bill Butler
Michael Dalton
The Edmonton Journal
Ernie Elko
Gary Gregg 9.14%
Don Hamilton
Ron Hodgson 1.735%
Jim Hole 9.14%
J.R. Paine and Associates
Brian Hryniuk 1.735%
The Estate of Gerald Knoll.[8]
Chris Kuchar
Larry M. Makelki
Todd McFarlane
Tim Melton
Art Mihalcheon
Cal Nichols 8.00%
Brian Nilsson
Marcel Roberge
Roger Roberge
Harold Roozen
Bruce Saville 9.14%
Dale Sheard
Simon Sochatsky
Rusty Stalwick
Keith Weaver
Jim Zanello
Basketball Junkie and Rummikub Champion
-
DazedAndAmused
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1066
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 2:36 am
[quote=""bectond""]Here are two articles that discuss the Sonic ownership group:
Pay close attention to the bold print and a few articles on two NHL ownership groups.
The Oklahoman
Businessman Clayton I. Bennett has formed an ownership group seeking a permanent NBA franchise for Oklahoma City: either the Hornets, whose success has become a national sensation, or a relocated franchise.
"The bottom line is, we want a team for this market," said Bennett, president of Dorchester Capital in Oklahoma City.
Bennett said his group would be interested in partnering with Hornets owner George Shinn, should the Hornets remain in Oklahoma City. Shinn has started seeking both local and national investors for the Hornets in an attempt to reduce a large debt incurred a year ago when he bought out partner Ray Wooldridge.
Shinn was in New York on Thursday and unavailable for comment."We would hope we could establish a local, community ownership group to own the team with George," Bennett said.
But Bennett said his group plans to be proactive in securing a franchise for the Ford Center should the Hornets return to New Orleans.
Business leaders in broad coalition
Bennett's group includes Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward of Chesapeake Energy Corp., and G. Jeffrey Records, Jr. of MidFirst Bank. Those three and Bennett are the members of Oklahoma Professional Sports, LLC, the organization that partnered with the city and state in providing a revenue guarantee for the Hornets this season.
Bennett said he has at least four other civic and business leaders who are interested in joining what would be a broad-based group. Bennett said he also envisions a larger collection of investors, in the spirit of building a community ownership platform.
Shinn and NBA Commissioner David Stern both have said they hope to return to New Orleans in 2007-08, but have stopped short of guarantees.
"We are absolutely committed to the Hornets this year and next," Bennett said. "But we also are 100 percent committed to finding a team for this city in the long-term."
In recent days, Seattle SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz has gone public with his displeasure of that franchise's lease with Key Arena. Schultz said that unless the Sonics get a building upgrade -- extensive renovations or a new arena -- he will sell the Sonics, Seattle's original major-league franchise.
State help is the Sonics' primary hope, and the Washington state Legislature dismisses for the year on March 9, so the Sonics have a month to lobby. Washington legislators have been less than promising with their recent comments. Renovation costs to Key Arena have been estimated at $200 million.
Both Bennett and Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said they have not spoken with anyone from the Sonics.
The Sonics are reported to be worth about $300 million.
Oklahoma City; Kansas City, Mo.; Anaheim, Calif.; and Las Vegas have been mentioned as possible candidates for NBA relocation.
In November, one game into the Hornets' home season, Stern visited the Ford Center and said, "I can say without reservation that Oklahoma City is now at the top of the list" for expansion or relocation.
Bennett formerly was on the San Antonio Spurs Board of Directors and Stern has called him a "great friend of the NBA."
"We want to make sure we stay first on that list," Bennett said. "For us to be on the radar screen and in the hunt is where I think we ought to be. We need to be proactive."
Bennett said the ideal for Oklahoma City is an ownership group based on the Spurs model. The Spurs are owned by a group of civic leaders and corporations that turn all profits back into the franchise and ensure its stability in San Antonio.
This is the second article out of Seattle:
OKLAHOMA CITY Four more Oklahoma City businessmen are joining the ownership group that is buying the Seattle SuperSonics.
The new members announced Sunday are William M. Cameron, president and CEO of Oklahoma City-based American Fidelity Assurance Co.; Bob Howard, president of Mercedes Benz of Oklahoma City; Everett Dobson, executive chairman of Oklahoma City-based Dobson Communications Corp.; and Jay Scaramucci, president of Oklahoma City-based Balon Corp.
Clayton I. Bennett, chairman and managing partner of Professional Basketball Club LLC, announced in July that his group would buy the Sonics and WNBA Storm for $350 million. The sale is subject to league approval and is expected to be addressed at the NBA Board of Governors meeting on Oct. 24.
"This is a dynamic group of accomplished business people," Bennett said in a statement. "They bring business insight from a variety of demanding market categories including finance, banking, real estate, insurance, automotive, telecommunications, energy and investment management."
The original partners in the group are Bennett, president of investment firm Dorchester Capital; Aubrey K. McClendon, chairman and CEO of Chesapeake Energy Corp.; G. Jeffrey Records Jr., president and CEO of MidFirst Bank; and Tom L. Ward, chairman and CEO of SandRidge Energy Inc. All four companies are based in Oklahoma City.
The group was initially formed in February and set out to find an NBA team for Oklahoma City. However, Bennett has said the new owners intend to keep the teams in Seattle, provided a new arena deal can be reached within a 12-month deadline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Spirit, LLC is a partnership headquartered at 101 Marietta St., Atlanta, GA. They own the NBA's Atlanta Hawks and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers, as well as Philips Arena along with Nintendo Company of America Ltd. The nine partners who comprise the group are Steve Belkin, Michael Gearon, Jr., Bruce Levenson, Ed Peskowitz, J. Rutherford Seydel, Todd Foreman, J. Michael Gearon, Sr., Bud Seretean, and Beau Turner[1]. These nine businessmen are divided into three groups, each headquartered in Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and Boston, and each group shares equal voting power within the group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE) is the owner and operator of the Toronto Maple Leafs National Hockey League team, Toronto Raptors National Basketball Association team, Toronto FC Major League Soccer team, and Toronto Marlies American Hockey League team all based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
As of 2003:
58% - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
15% - CTVglobemedia
14% - TD Bank Financial Group, through TD Capital Group
13% - Kilmer Sports Inc. (Owned by Larry Tanenbaum)
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. Board of Directors:
Larry Tanenbaum - Kilmer Sports (non-executive chairman of the board)
Richard Peddie (president and CEO)
Jim Leech - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Robert Bertram - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Dean Metcalf - Teachers' Merchant Bank
Ivan Fecan - CTVglobemedia
Robert MacLellan - TD Capital Group
Dale Lastman - Goodmans LLP
Erol Uzumeri - Teachers' Merchant Bank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Edmonton Investors Group Limited Partnership was a the limited partnership that owned the Edmonton Oilers of the National Hockey League
As of January 2008, the ownership of the EIG was as follows:
Shareholder Percentage Held
Dave Addie 1.735%
Neal Allen
Jakob Ambrosius
Manuel Balsa
Ted Barrett
Edwin E. Bean 8.00%
Gordon Buchanan
Bill Butler
Michael Dalton
The Edmonton Journal
Ernie Elko
Gary Gregg 9.14%
Don Hamilton
Ron Hodgson 1.735%
Jim Hole 9.14%
J.R. Paine and Associates
Brian Hryniuk 1.735%
The Estate of Gerald Knoll.[8]
Chris Kuchar
Larry M. Makelki
Todd McFarlane
Tim Melton
Art Mihalcheon
Cal Nichols 8.00%
Brian Nilsson
Marcel Roberge
Roger Roberge
Harold Roozen
Bruce Saville 9.14%
Dale Sheard
Simon Sochatsky
Rusty Stalwick
Keith Weaver
Jim Zanello[/quote]
I accept this as reaonable proof of the exception that I already acknowledge exists. But, this concept is a much easier sell in the major league sport examples you provide, where you know there are quality control measures that exist to provide real infrastructure to the business and where you know you have a solid brand name on which to bank your investment. Unfortunately, we have neither in independent minor league basketball. Additionally, these examples seem to be of professional ownership groups. I didn't get the impression that that was what you were advocating for minor league basketball. You mentioned (20) friends and family members and equal investors, some taking part in team management. That's the part I am most skeptical about in practice. Good info for thought though. Thx.
Pay close attention to the bold print and a few articles on two NHL ownership groups.
The Oklahoman
Businessman Clayton I. Bennett has formed an ownership group seeking a permanent NBA franchise for Oklahoma City: either the Hornets, whose success has become a national sensation, or a relocated franchise.
"The bottom line is, we want a team for this market," said Bennett, president of Dorchester Capital in Oklahoma City.
Bennett said his group would be interested in partnering with Hornets owner George Shinn, should the Hornets remain in Oklahoma City. Shinn has started seeking both local and national investors for the Hornets in an attempt to reduce a large debt incurred a year ago when he bought out partner Ray Wooldridge.
Shinn was in New York on Thursday and unavailable for comment."We would hope we could establish a local, community ownership group to own the team with George," Bennett said.
But Bennett said his group plans to be proactive in securing a franchise for the Ford Center should the Hornets return to New Orleans.
Business leaders in broad coalition
Bennett's group includes Aubrey McClendon and Tom Ward of Chesapeake Energy Corp., and G. Jeffrey Records, Jr. of MidFirst Bank. Those three and Bennett are the members of Oklahoma Professional Sports, LLC, the organization that partnered with the city and state in providing a revenue guarantee for the Hornets this season.
Bennett said he has at least four other civic and business leaders who are interested in joining what would be a broad-based group. Bennett said he also envisions a larger collection of investors, in the spirit of building a community ownership platform.
Shinn and NBA Commissioner David Stern both have said they hope to return to New Orleans in 2007-08, but have stopped short of guarantees.
"We are absolutely committed to the Hornets this year and next," Bennett said. "But we also are 100 percent committed to finding a team for this city in the long-term."
In recent days, Seattle SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz has gone public with his displeasure of that franchise's lease with Key Arena. Schultz said that unless the Sonics get a building upgrade -- extensive renovations or a new arena -- he will sell the Sonics, Seattle's original major-league franchise.
State help is the Sonics' primary hope, and the Washington state Legislature dismisses for the year on March 9, so the Sonics have a month to lobby. Washington legislators have been less than promising with their recent comments. Renovation costs to Key Arena have been estimated at $200 million.
Both Bennett and Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said they have not spoken with anyone from the Sonics.
The Sonics are reported to be worth about $300 million.
Oklahoma City; Kansas City, Mo.; Anaheim, Calif.; and Las Vegas have been mentioned as possible candidates for NBA relocation.
In November, one game into the Hornets' home season, Stern visited the Ford Center and said, "I can say without reservation that Oklahoma City is now at the top of the list" for expansion or relocation.
Bennett formerly was on the San Antonio Spurs Board of Directors and Stern has called him a "great friend of the NBA."
"We want to make sure we stay first on that list," Bennett said. "For us to be on the radar screen and in the hunt is where I think we ought to be. We need to be proactive."
Bennett said the ideal for Oklahoma City is an ownership group based on the Spurs model. The Spurs are owned by a group of civic leaders and corporations that turn all profits back into the franchise and ensure its stability in San Antonio.
This is the second article out of Seattle:
OKLAHOMA CITY Four more Oklahoma City businessmen are joining the ownership group that is buying the Seattle SuperSonics.
The new members announced Sunday are William M. Cameron, president and CEO of Oklahoma City-based American Fidelity Assurance Co.; Bob Howard, president of Mercedes Benz of Oklahoma City; Everett Dobson, executive chairman of Oklahoma City-based Dobson Communications Corp.; and Jay Scaramucci, president of Oklahoma City-based Balon Corp.
Clayton I. Bennett, chairman and managing partner of Professional Basketball Club LLC, announced in July that his group would buy the Sonics and WNBA Storm for $350 million. The sale is subject to league approval and is expected to be addressed at the NBA Board of Governors meeting on Oct. 24.
"This is a dynamic group of accomplished business people," Bennett said in a statement. "They bring business insight from a variety of demanding market categories including finance, banking, real estate, insurance, automotive, telecommunications, energy and investment management."
The original partners in the group are Bennett, president of investment firm Dorchester Capital; Aubrey K. McClendon, chairman and CEO of Chesapeake Energy Corp.; G. Jeffrey Records Jr., president and CEO of MidFirst Bank; and Tom L. Ward, chairman and CEO of SandRidge Energy Inc. All four companies are based in Oklahoma City.
The group was initially formed in February and set out to find an NBA team for Oklahoma City. However, Bennett has said the new owners intend to keep the teams in Seattle, provided a new arena deal can be reached within a 12-month deadline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atlanta Spirit, LLC is a partnership headquartered at 101 Marietta St., Atlanta, GA. They own the NBA's Atlanta Hawks and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers, as well as Philips Arena along with Nintendo Company of America Ltd. The nine partners who comprise the group are Steve Belkin, Michael Gearon, Jr., Bruce Levenson, Ed Peskowitz, J. Rutherford Seydel, Todd Foreman, J. Michael Gearon, Sr., Bud Seretean, and Beau Turner[1]. These nine businessmen are divided into three groups, each headquartered in Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and Boston, and each group shares equal voting power within the group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. (MLSE) is the owner and operator of the Toronto Maple Leafs National Hockey League team, Toronto Raptors National Basketball Association team, Toronto FC Major League Soccer team, and Toronto Marlies American Hockey League team all based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
As of 2003:
58% - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
15% - CTVglobemedia
14% - TD Bank Financial Group, through TD Capital Group
13% - Kilmer Sports Inc. (Owned by Larry Tanenbaum)
Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd. Board of Directors:
Larry Tanenbaum - Kilmer Sports (non-executive chairman of the board)
Richard Peddie (president and CEO)
Jim Leech - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Robert Bertram - Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan
Dean Metcalf - Teachers' Merchant Bank
Ivan Fecan - CTVglobemedia
Robert MacLellan - TD Capital Group
Dale Lastman - Goodmans LLP
Erol Uzumeri - Teachers' Merchant Bank
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Edmonton Investors Group Limited Partnership was a the limited partnership that owned the Edmonton Oilers of the National Hockey League
As of January 2008, the ownership of the EIG was as follows:
Shareholder Percentage Held
Dave Addie 1.735%
Neal Allen
Jakob Ambrosius
Manuel Balsa
Ted Barrett
Edwin E. Bean 8.00%
Gordon Buchanan
Bill Butler
Michael Dalton
The Edmonton Journal
Ernie Elko
Gary Gregg 9.14%
Don Hamilton
Ron Hodgson 1.735%
Jim Hole 9.14%
J.R. Paine and Associates
Brian Hryniuk 1.735%
The Estate of Gerald Knoll.[8]
Chris Kuchar
Larry M. Makelki
Todd McFarlane
Tim Melton
Art Mihalcheon
Cal Nichols 8.00%
Brian Nilsson
Marcel Roberge
Roger Roberge
Harold Roozen
Bruce Saville 9.14%
Dale Sheard
Simon Sochatsky
Rusty Stalwick
Keith Weaver
Jim Zanello[/quote]
I accept this as reaonable proof of the exception that I already acknowledge exists. But, this concept is a much easier sell in the major league sport examples you provide, where you know there are quality control measures that exist to provide real infrastructure to the business and where you know you have a solid brand name on which to bank your investment. Unfortunately, we have neither in independent minor league basketball. Additionally, these examples seem to be of professional ownership groups. I didn't get the impression that that was what you were advocating for minor league basketball. You mentioned (20) friends and family members and equal investors, some taking part in team management. That's the part I am most skeptical about in practice. Good info for thought though. Thx.
