Rochester Done?
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Trish_lvs_Baltimore
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jerry101jlh
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Bouncer_Texxx
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The arena league did a good job this year, but i'm afraid I see things starting to brew (AFLPA) that may again foreshadow the 2nd death of the league.
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..
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jerry101jlh
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[quote=""Bouncer_Texxx""]The arena league did a good job this year, but i'm afraid I see things starting to brew (AFLPA) that may again foreshadow the 2nd death of the league.
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..[/quote]
Did I misunderstand or did you just say business as usual most everywhere? lol
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..[/quote]
Did I misunderstand or did you just say business as usual most everywhere? lol
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IndoorExpert
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Let's be honest for a minute. Minor league sports is a rich man/woman's tax write-off. It is for those that want the glory of being the local town hero and get their face in the paper and on television if they are lucky. It is common place for those with large egos. These franchises are actually poor business decisions quite often. The super wealthy individuals usually got that way by making good business decisions. It doesn't take long to realize that this hobby is quite expensive for an owner if done correctly. There usually isn't a return on the investment.
The real winners in the game right now are the arena's. I remember in the early years, it wasn't hard to negotiate a decent arena lease. Today, with all the burned markets, the price is ridiculous. Most teams get no parking and no concessions which is the big money makers that require no effort. Teams are required to jump through many hoops to even get a lease. Nobody helps franchises succeed, and rightfully so. Paying $15,000-20,000 is common place these days. Have you thanked your arena today?
The real winners in the game right now are the arena's. I remember in the early years, it wasn't hard to negotiate a decent arena lease. Today, with all the burned markets, the price is ridiculous. Most teams get no parking and no concessions which is the big money makers that require no effort. Teams are required to jump through many hoops to even get a lease. Nobody helps franchises succeed, and rightfully so. Paying $15,000-20,000 is common place these days. Have you thanked your arena today?
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jerry101jlh
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[quote=""IndoorExpert""]Let's be honest for a minute. Minor league sports is a rich man/woman's tax write-off. It is for those that want the glory of being the local town hero and get their face in the paper and on television if they are lucky. It is common place for those with large egos. These franchises are actually poor business decisions quite often. The super wealthy individuals usually got that way by making good business decisions. It doesn't take long to realize that this hobby is quite expensive for an owner if done correctly. There usually isn't a return on the investment.
The real winners in the game right now are the arena's. I remember in the early years, it wasn't hard to negotiate a decent arena lease. Today, with all the burned markets, the price is ridiculous. Most teams get no parking and no concessions which is the big money makers that require no effort. Teams are required to jump through many hoops to even get a lease. Nobody helps franchises succeed, and rightfully so. Paying $15,000-20,000 is common place these days. Have you thanked your arena today?[/quote]
I agree with the first part 100% and the main reason I find it hard to believe when I hear Thom Hager say the only reason to get into this sport is to make money when those cases are rare no matter how well a team is ran or how they do with fan and sponsor support.
The second part I have no idea, but sounds logical and who can blame the arenas for tightening up when you look at the history of teams walking away from leases.
The real winners in the game right now are the arena's. I remember in the early years, it wasn't hard to negotiate a decent arena lease. Today, with all the burned markets, the price is ridiculous. Most teams get no parking and no concessions which is the big money makers that require no effort. Teams are required to jump through many hoops to even get a lease. Nobody helps franchises succeed, and rightfully so. Paying $15,000-20,000 is common place these days. Have you thanked your arena today?[/quote]
I agree with the first part 100% and the main reason I find it hard to believe when I hear Thom Hager say the only reason to get into this sport is to make money when those cases are rare no matter how well a team is ran or how they do with fan and sponsor support.
The second part I have no idea, but sounds logical and who can blame the arenas for tightening up when you look at the history of teams walking away from leases.
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indoor fan
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[quote=""Bouncer_Texxx""]The arena league did a good job this year, but i'm afraid I see things starting to brew (AFLPA) that may again foreshadow the 2nd death of the league.
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..[/quote]
The AFL has made major improvements by bringing back New Orleans, Georgia, San Jose, Kansas City and Philadelphia. I would hardly call that "scathed"
The SIFL has added several solid franchises and with the regional setup, could grow even more. Not scathed.
The IFL had teams fold and not pay it's players, coaches and staff, during the season. The IFL has lost close to a third of it's teams. Some of those teams have been around for over five years. There's is no way that is good. No matter what kind of kool aid you serve. Scathed.
Out till December!
The IFL loosing teams like Billings and Sioux City, whom have been in the game since it's genesis hurts, no doubt, but after listening to the meeting the Outlaws had with the County they never agreed on anything with regards to sharing the improvement fee. I'd like to think that a guy who helped found Oakley and OP can cut a check for turf and pads. I also think something was up becasue they were talking new turf rather then quality used turf at about 1/3rd the cost.
So, those two teams and San Angelo were really the only bad losses. The arena league lost teams and had teams relocate, and teams sold too, let's not pretend any league has escaped this off season unscathed. Well, maybe the APFL, they might have actually grown without loosing a team..[/quote]
The AFL has made major improvements by bringing back New Orleans, Georgia, San Jose, Kansas City and Philadelphia. I would hardly call that "scathed"
The SIFL has added several solid franchises and with the regional setup, could grow even more. Not scathed.
The IFL had teams fold and not pay it's players, coaches and staff, during the season. The IFL has lost close to a third of it's teams. Some of those teams have been around for over five years. There's is no way that is good. No matter what kind of kool aid you serve. Scathed.
Out till December!
Last edited by indoor fan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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daytonadan
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- Location: Cedar Hills, UT/Daytona Beach, FL
Yawn. Blah Blah Blah. Yawn.
I don't know what's been more fun ... knowing what's going to happen and then watching it go down or watching the reaction to it.
I don't know what's been more fun ... knowing what's going to happen and then watching it go down or watching the reaction to it.
Former Hall Monitor
Mrs. Brown's 4th Grade Class, Faulkner Elementary
New Smyrna Beach, Florida, 1974-75
"I Have More Important Things To Occupy My Time That What's Being Said On Message Boards -- OSC Founder Paul Reeths"
"There's a sucker born every minute" -- PT Barnum
Mrs. Brown's 4th Grade Class, Faulkner Elementary
New Smyrna Beach, Florida, 1974-75
"I Have More Important Things To Occupy My Time That What's Being Said On Message Boards -- OSC Founder Paul Reeths"
"There's a sucker born every minute" -- PT Barnum
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Caballo Diablo
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- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm
[quote=""indoor fan""]The AFL has made major improvements by bringing back New Orleans, Georgia, San Jose, Kansas City and Philadelphia. I would hardly call that "scathed"[/quote]
So arenaball40 is back - lol
Major improvements? Yes and no depending if you want to be realistic and hold them to the same litmus test as you do the IFL. On face value bringing back the larger previous markets does seem like a good idea. But didn't they rape and burn the Bossier and Huntsville markets and fans in the process? You seem to attack Indoor leagues for that. Those two teams folded, yes folded. They didn't relocate as you pretend. The owners folded these two teams and will start new teams in the new cities.
Didn't players and staff in Milwaukee have paycheck difficulty this season? Didn't the owner burn some of the creditors? Many of their fans also felt burnt. Hopefully the new ownership will do better, do you actually know who's in that ownership group?
Aren't the reboot owners the same ones that ran the af2? Didn't they have to take over two teams mid-season to keep them from folding in 2009 and assuring players would be paid?
Can you tell us what went wrong in OKC and what's on their schedule for next season? How about Tulsa, once the leagues pet? The league offices are there and even the Talons have lots of questions as staff and players seem to be running in the other direction. Even one of the owners (and league committie guy) has been planning his exodus since before the new reboot program played one game. He has moved much of his investments to other teams/markets.
So it's ok it the league throws the af2 markets under the bus? Were they just used to have enough teams to start play last season and can now be thrown away like lastnights garbage. You read and blather on AF all the time, tell us you haven't noticed the fan and player dissent. Some teams have offered players $4,000 per game, even an owners son has admitted that on his own site.
Is this what the large markets will bring to the reboot? The previous owners were wiling to lose millions for the AFL hobby, it looks like they're still willing to outspend the smaller owners and are blowing away the salary cap at a much larger rate than the previous AFL. Is this really good for the league? Will they fall into the previous overspending that killed the real AFL?
What's the word on the promised Tier 2? What about the lies to owners and players about the salary cap timeline change? What about the promise to owners about a cheaper and better business plan?
Can we trust the league to curtail the egregous cheating? After all aren't they the same guys that had proof of a team cheating and let them keep the championship trophey?
No 50 yard league can get on a pedestal, they all have simlar problems, some just hide them better and spend more to pretend.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
The SIFL has added several solid franchises and with the regional setup, could grow even more. Not scathed.[/quote]We'll see, only time will tell. Two years in a row it looks like they added some good pre-existing teams. Last year it looked great until Greenville unraveled. It seems the league knew, condoned, and lied about much of that situation.
Their first two years of teams failing and playing sem-pro teams was better than forfieting but still bad none the less. Last season the league was picking up players along the bus route and signing guys off the street just to put warm bodies on the field.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
The IFL had teams fold and not pay it's players, coaches and staff, during the season. The IFL has lost close to a third of it's teams. Some of those teams have been around for over five years. There's is no way that is good. No matter what kind of kool aid you serve. Scathed.[/quote]
Umm, shouldn't these rules also apply to the other leagues? You keep telling us how much better the SIFL is when their first two seasons were far worse in these catagories.
The people in Milwaukee af3 not getting paid isn't a problem in your mind? The Battlewings and Vipers folding isn't a problem in your mind? What did you say about 2011 for the yard dawgz?
Hey, I support all of the leagues and hope they all improve and succeed. But your homerism is blatantly worse than any kool-aid the others might be drinking. I guess you took my advice last year and put the bong on the table and walked away from it, too bad you found the crack pipe instead. I'm not sure ther could be other reasons for your unreasonable and hypocrital thinking.
Even the Arena fans over on AF have called you out on the silliness, or are you going to deny that name here also? I'm still curious as to which NIFL team in Texas you played for baller.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
Out till December![/quote]
We don't believe that either.
So arenaball40 is back - lol
Major improvements? Yes and no depending if you want to be realistic and hold them to the same litmus test as you do the IFL. On face value bringing back the larger previous markets does seem like a good idea. But didn't they rape and burn the Bossier and Huntsville markets and fans in the process? You seem to attack Indoor leagues for that. Those two teams folded, yes folded. They didn't relocate as you pretend. The owners folded these two teams and will start new teams in the new cities.
Didn't players and staff in Milwaukee have paycheck difficulty this season? Didn't the owner burn some of the creditors? Many of their fans also felt burnt. Hopefully the new ownership will do better, do you actually know who's in that ownership group?
Aren't the reboot owners the same ones that ran the af2? Didn't they have to take over two teams mid-season to keep them from folding in 2009 and assuring players would be paid?
Can you tell us what went wrong in OKC and what's on their schedule for next season? How about Tulsa, once the leagues pet? The league offices are there and even the Talons have lots of questions as staff and players seem to be running in the other direction. Even one of the owners (and league committie guy) has been planning his exodus since before the new reboot program played one game. He has moved much of his investments to other teams/markets.
So it's ok it the league throws the af2 markets under the bus? Were they just used to have enough teams to start play last season and can now be thrown away like lastnights garbage. You read and blather on AF all the time, tell us you haven't noticed the fan and player dissent. Some teams have offered players $4,000 per game, even an owners son has admitted that on his own site.
Is this what the large markets will bring to the reboot? The previous owners were wiling to lose millions for the AFL hobby, it looks like they're still willing to outspend the smaller owners and are blowing away the salary cap at a much larger rate than the previous AFL. Is this really good for the league? Will they fall into the previous overspending that killed the real AFL?
What's the word on the promised Tier 2? What about the lies to owners and players about the salary cap timeline change? What about the promise to owners about a cheaper and better business plan?
Can we trust the league to curtail the egregous cheating? After all aren't they the same guys that had proof of a team cheating and let them keep the championship trophey?
No 50 yard league can get on a pedestal, they all have simlar problems, some just hide them better and spend more to pretend.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
The SIFL has added several solid franchises and with the regional setup, could grow even more. Not scathed.[/quote]We'll see, only time will tell. Two years in a row it looks like they added some good pre-existing teams. Last year it looked great until Greenville unraveled. It seems the league knew, condoned, and lied about much of that situation.
Their first two years of teams failing and playing sem-pro teams was better than forfieting but still bad none the less. Last season the league was picking up players along the bus route and signing guys off the street just to put warm bodies on the field.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
The IFL had teams fold and not pay it's players, coaches and staff, during the season. The IFL has lost close to a third of it's teams. Some of those teams have been around for over five years. There's is no way that is good. No matter what kind of kool aid you serve. Scathed.[/quote]
Umm, shouldn't these rules also apply to the other leagues? You keep telling us how much better the SIFL is when their first two seasons were far worse in these catagories.
The people in Milwaukee af3 not getting paid isn't a problem in your mind? The Battlewings and Vipers folding isn't a problem in your mind? What did you say about 2011 for the yard dawgz?
Hey, I support all of the leagues and hope they all improve and succeed. But your homerism is blatantly worse than any kool-aid the others might be drinking. I guess you took my advice last year and put the bong on the table and walked away from it, too bad you found the crack pipe instead. I'm not sure ther could be other reasons for your unreasonable and hypocrital thinking.
Even the Arena fans over on AF have called you out on the silliness, or are you going to deny that name here also? I'm still curious as to which NIFL team in Texas you played for baller.
[quote=""indoor fan""]
Out till December![/quote]
We don't believe that either.
