No one spoke up when I battled the SIFL and Dan Ryan.
Isn't is amazing what free beer can do?
And what was really funny is that some people thought you and I were the same person. That would have been brilliant, but it was amusing.
Brandon Smith suing Tommy B
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daytonadan
- Site Admin
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- Location: Cedar Hills, UT/Daytona Beach, FL
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Caballo Diablo
- Site Admin
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[quote=""NatePreds05""]Where was that written? All Jim Renacci said for 6-8 months is "we are working on coming back" before announcing "we are suspending operations indefinitely". That does not sound like agreement or moving forward to me. The AFL was not going to reorganize/restructure, there were too many egos in the room.[/quote]
Most of the dealings aren't printed and released to the public. We've got enough trouble trying to get leagues to tell us the good stuff, why are they going to tell us the bad stuff - lol.
Maybe that's part of the problem, you listened to Renacci.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Without Gridiron there would be no Arenaball in 2010. AFL owners were not moving and af2 owners were not confident continuing in a league facing bankruptcy (even a structured one).[/quote]
Your opinion there would be no ArenaBall without Gridiron.
Many af2 owners weren't confident in the economy or happy about Gridiron's plan. Most AFL owners weren't confident in Gridiron and ultimately were proven correct that the Fab 3 had no interest in the AFL or any resolution that wasn't about the Fab 3 owning their own league.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Gridiron bought the history and heritage of the AFL, and it is rumored that the AF1 will rename themselves AFL in 2010. The AFL brand has much more popularity and recognition than af2 ever had, that's why it is valuable. [/quote]
Mr Baker, is that you? - lol
More popular with more name recognition, that fraud is old and tired and is worthless. I've got no problem with the AFL chasing the dream of the 5th major league, just how they went about it arrogantly throwing money around for appearences.
ESPN owned 10% of the AFL and pi$$ed on them. Refused to air a reasonable broadcast sched, and let their own so called experts constantly bash the league. They never treated the league as if it was real. Do you think ESPN is well known enough and powerful enough to help the league and cast a positve perception to the masses?
Do you think ESPN has the financial viability to force the league to resolve their problems or even purchase the league or the shares the AFL owned in the af2? Even the ESPN as a corportion laughed at the league.
Sure, the NBC deal was poorly executed also, but hey, they weren't part owners of the league.
Did any of the National TV deals help the popularity of the sport? Did the masses finally accept it? Even the casual fans will follow if you give them a good dollar for dollar value on their entertainment. They know the story about the AFL. Heck, even the masses that disliked the sport knows it went down in flames. Changing this new expansion leagues name to the AFL is a bad idea in my mind. It definitely wasn't worth $6.2 mil just to pretend it's the same league. There were some good reasons to win the bid but most of them have already been screwed up.
That only leaves 2 reasons, to make sure the AFL went out of business and to keep the real AFL owners from operating under the name. The rights to ArenaBall rules to start their own league could have been had for much less.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
The AFL failed because of bad business practices. [/quote]
I whole heartedly agree and have said so for years.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 is not making the same mistake. [/quote]
We shall see. Costs of doing business has gone up for both the league and franchises in salary and the business plan. Things are not what had been discussed when the coup began.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 is the AFL as it was in the early days, a return to the roots (just minus the ironman). [/quote]
I disagree, I've said for years that the af2 was closer to what the AFL was in it's infancy and vision. An inexpensive nich sport. I have even discussed the idea of a salary increase for the af2 players over the years. I've discussed it with several owners/front office staffs, and yes, even Mr Kurz. I was overwhelmingly shot down that it was not financially viable and not what the league was about. This was in good times, now that the economy is terrible and fewer have discretionary income to spend for entertainment it all of a sudden becomes a good idea?
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
As for your one quote about formerly the AFL, that was from one news article. Probably a misinformed journalist (they make plenty of mistakes when it comes to reporting on arena football).[/quote]
True, it seems most of the so called reporters and experts put out lots of bad info. I have spoke with some insiders that are pleased to be known as the league that was formerly the AFL. Personally I don't see the positives in trying to associate yourself with a business that seemed totally inept.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Which owners were soured? [/quote]
I won't say. You know my relationship with one of the pretty important owners, and I met a lot of the powers that were through him. I tailgated at Wrangler games with the new owner of Amarillo, I first met him when he owned the Austin Ice Bats.
I would much rather people not believe me and call me out as a liar than name names or say what was discussed in private. I'm still friends with many of them and have clues to their next step.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 did lower the cost of business, expenses are much lower than the AFL in all fronts (except maybe arena fees). [/quote]
You're using the wrong comparrison. We all know the AFL finances weren't viable. They could have used a $1.5 mil salary cap and still say they lowered the cost. The cost of doing business is greater than the af2. That's where most of the AF1 teams came from.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]I don't see any malice or problems behind or in front of the curtain.[/quote]
it's good that the public isn't aware of these things. All corporate hostile takeovers have it, not just the Fab 3.
[quote=""NatePreds05""] Where are your sources for these discontented owners? [/quote]
See above, I don't kiss & tell.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
If the owners really wanted to continue they would have joined tier 2 of the AF1 which would have had the same costs of the af2.[/quote]
Incorrect, the cost would have been more, especially travel in a "National" league. You sound like one of the Fab 3, several owners did want to continue. Some joined other leagues and some are waiting for the fall out to settle. And some just didn't want to work for or be pawns of the Fab 3.
The rest is just repetitive. let's just agree to disagree and move on to enjoy the upcoming season.
Most of the dealings aren't printed and released to the public. We've got enough trouble trying to get leagues to tell us the good stuff, why are they going to tell us the bad stuff - lol.
Maybe that's part of the problem, you listened to Renacci.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Without Gridiron there would be no Arenaball in 2010. AFL owners were not moving and af2 owners were not confident continuing in a league facing bankruptcy (even a structured one).[/quote]
Your opinion there would be no ArenaBall without Gridiron.
Many af2 owners weren't confident in the economy or happy about Gridiron's plan. Most AFL owners weren't confident in Gridiron and ultimately were proven correct that the Fab 3 had no interest in the AFL or any resolution that wasn't about the Fab 3 owning their own league.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Gridiron bought the history and heritage of the AFL, and it is rumored that the AF1 will rename themselves AFL in 2010. The AFL brand has much more popularity and recognition than af2 ever had, that's why it is valuable. [/quote]
Mr Baker, is that you? - lol
More popular with more name recognition, that fraud is old and tired and is worthless. I've got no problem with the AFL chasing the dream of the 5th major league, just how they went about it arrogantly throwing money around for appearences.
ESPN owned 10% of the AFL and pi$$ed on them. Refused to air a reasonable broadcast sched, and let their own so called experts constantly bash the league. They never treated the league as if it was real. Do you think ESPN is well known enough and powerful enough to help the league and cast a positve perception to the masses?
Do you think ESPN has the financial viability to force the league to resolve their problems or even purchase the league or the shares the AFL owned in the af2? Even the ESPN as a corportion laughed at the league.
Sure, the NBC deal was poorly executed also, but hey, they weren't part owners of the league.
Did any of the National TV deals help the popularity of the sport? Did the masses finally accept it? Even the casual fans will follow if you give them a good dollar for dollar value on their entertainment. They know the story about the AFL. Heck, even the masses that disliked the sport knows it went down in flames. Changing this new expansion leagues name to the AFL is a bad idea in my mind. It definitely wasn't worth $6.2 mil just to pretend it's the same league. There were some good reasons to win the bid but most of them have already been screwed up.
That only leaves 2 reasons, to make sure the AFL went out of business and to keep the real AFL owners from operating under the name. The rights to ArenaBall rules to start their own league could have been had for much less.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
The AFL failed because of bad business practices. [/quote]
I whole heartedly agree and have said so for years.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 is not making the same mistake. [/quote]
We shall see. Costs of doing business has gone up for both the league and franchises in salary and the business plan. Things are not what had been discussed when the coup began.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 is the AFL as it was in the early days, a return to the roots (just minus the ironman). [/quote]
I disagree, I've said for years that the af2 was closer to what the AFL was in it's infancy and vision. An inexpensive nich sport. I have even discussed the idea of a salary increase for the af2 players over the years. I've discussed it with several owners/front office staffs, and yes, even Mr Kurz. I was overwhelmingly shot down that it was not financially viable and not what the league was about. This was in good times, now that the economy is terrible and fewer have discretionary income to spend for entertainment it all of a sudden becomes a good idea?
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
As for your one quote about formerly the AFL, that was from one news article. Probably a misinformed journalist (they make plenty of mistakes when it comes to reporting on arena football).[/quote]
True, it seems most of the so called reporters and experts put out lots of bad info. I have spoke with some insiders that are pleased to be known as the league that was formerly the AFL. Personally I don't see the positives in trying to associate yourself with a business that seemed totally inept.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
Which owners were soured? [/quote]
I won't say. You know my relationship with one of the pretty important owners, and I met a lot of the powers that were through him. I tailgated at Wrangler games with the new owner of Amarillo, I first met him when he owned the Austin Ice Bats.
I would much rather people not believe me and call me out as a liar than name names or say what was discussed in private. I'm still friends with many of them and have clues to their next step.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
AF1 did lower the cost of business, expenses are much lower than the AFL in all fronts (except maybe arena fees). [/quote]
You're using the wrong comparrison. We all know the AFL finances weren't viable. They could have used a $1.5 mil salary cap and still say they lowered the cost. The cost of doing business is greater than the af2. That's where most of the AF1 teams came from.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]I don't see any malice or problems behind or in front of the curtain.[/quote]
it's good that the public isn't aware of these things. All corporate hostile takeovers have it, not just the Fab 3.
[quote=""NatePreds05""] Where are your sources for these discontented owners? [/quote]
See above, I don't kiss & tell.
[quote=""NatePreds05""]
If the owners really wanted to continue they would have joined tier 2 of the AF1 which would have had the same costs of the af2.[/quote]
Incorrect, the cost would have been more, especially travel in a "National" league. You sound like one of the Fab 3, several owners did want to continue. Some joined other leagues and some are waiting for the fall out to settle. And some just didn't want to work for or be pawns of the Fab 3.
The rest is just repetitive. let's just agree to disagree and move on to enjoy the upcoming season.
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Caballo Diablo
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2159
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm
[quote=""daytonadan""]No one spoke up when I battled the SIFL and Dan Ryan.
Isn't is amazing what free beer can do?
And what was really funny is that some people thought you and I were the same person. That would have been brilliant, but it was amusing.[/quote]
The problem with that is I gave away a lot more free beer than I received - lol
And How do I know you're not me? I thinks it's time for one (or 6) of those beers right now.
Isn't is amazing what free beer can do?
And what was really funny is that some people thought you and I were the same person. That would have been brilliant, but it was amusing.[/quote]
The problem with that is I gave away a lot more free beer than I received - lol
And How do I know you're not me? I thinks it's time for one (or 6) of those beers right now.
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Bouncer_Texxx
- Site Admin
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:28 pm
I'm not entirely sure he started it... he certianly perpetuated it.. I'm far to lazy to look.
back on topic
If we put up 3 plus pages every time there was a lawsuit in minor league sports we'd crash the OSC servers. Sad we don't have more honest and forthright individuals invloved in our sports, but it is what it is.
back on topic
If we put up 3 plus pages every time there was a lawsuit in minor league sports we'd crash the OSC servers. Sad we don't have more honest and forthright individuals invloved in our sports, but it is what it is.
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Caballo Diablo
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2159
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm
[quote=""Big Easy""]The title of this thread and the discussion are two different things. Can we get back to topic or does this have to be another CB thread hijack?[/quote]
Really? Don't look now but your Bias is showing again.
Back up a few posts and you'll see I attempted to get back on topic.
[quote=""Diablo""]
Yesterday, 01:37 PM
Caballo Diablo
Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,195
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now what were we talking about?
Oh yeah, the Smith family and Mr B.
I wish you all well and expect all involved to land on their feet to move past this. [/quote]
Anyways, Brandon says thanks for diverting the topic.
And what's up with the "CB" ?
I've seen it in the past and thought it was just an error but you continue to do it and the D & B aren't that close to each other - lol
No biggie, just wondering your thought process behind it.
GEAUX SAINTS
Really? Don't look now but your Bias is showing again.
Back up a few posts and you'll see I attempted to get back on topic.
[quote=""Diablo""]
Yesterday, 01:37 PM
Caballo Diablo
Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,195
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now what were we talking about?
Oh yeah, the Smith family and Mr B.
I wish you all well and expect all involved to land on their feet to move past this. [/quote]
Anyways, Brandon says thanks for diverting the topic.
And what's up with the "CB" ?
I've seen it in the past and thought it was just an error but you continue to do it and the D & B aren't that close to each other - lol
No biggie, just wondering your thought process behind it.
GEAUX SAINTS
Last edited by Caballo Diablo on Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[quote=""Caballo Diablo""]Really? Don't look now but your Bias is showing again.
Back up a few posts and you'll see I attempted to get back on topic.
Anyways, Brandon says thanks for diverting the topic.
And what's up with the "CB" ?
I've seen it in the past and thought it was just an error but you continue to do it and the D & B aren't that close to each other - lol
No biggie, just wondering your thought process behind it.
GEAUX SAINTS[/quote]
All I know is that it's anohter thread littered with multiple breakdowns on every little point in every post....and those are your signature threads. If you didn't hijack this one, I'm sorry. I'm just used to that being the case I guess. Why CB? I don't know. Wish I could answer. Maybe I don't care as much as you think I do.
Back up a few posts and you'll see I attempted to get back on topic.
Anyways, Brandon says thanks for diverting the topic.
And what's up with the "CB" ?
I've seen it in the past and thought it was just an error but you continue to do it and the D & B aren't that close to each other - lol
No biggie, just wondering your thought process behind it.
GEAUX SAINTS[/quote]
All I know is that it's anohter thread littered with multiple breakdowns on every little point in every post....and those are your signature threads. If you didn't hijack this one, I'm sorry. I'm just used to that being the case I guess. Why CB? I don't know. Wish I could answer. Maybe I don't care as much as you think I do.
If integrity is missing, so are you.
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Caballo Diablo
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2159
- Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:43 pm
[quote=""Big Easy""]All I know is that it's anohter thread littered with multiple breakdowns on every little point in every post....and those are your signature threads. If you didn't hijack this one, I'm sorry. I'm just used to that being the case I guess. [/quote]
Sorry discussion bothers you, but you do have the freedom of not reading them.
[quote=""Big Easy""]
Why CB? I don't know. Wish I could answer. [/quote]
I call untrue, you're smarter than that - Ron told me -
[quote=""Big Easy""]
Maybe I don't care as much as you think I do.[/quote]
Wrong again, I've always thought you didn't care about anything here and often wondered why you hang around now that you don't have Ron to kick anymore.
Oh by the way, I didn't notice anything in your post about the topic at hand.
Pot, meet kettle.
Sorry discussion bothers you, but you do have the freedom of not reading them.
[quote=""Big Easy""]
Why CB? I don't know. Wish I could answer. [/quote]
I call untrue, you're smarter than that - Ron told me -
[quote=""Big Easy""]
Maybe I don't care as much as you think I do.[/quote]
Wrong again, I've always thought you didn't care about anything here and often wondered why you hang around now that you don't have Ron to kick anymore.
Oh by the way, I didn't notice anything in your post about the topic at hand.
Pot, meet kettle.
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realitycheck
- Site Admin
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:21 pm
And now the story comes full circle...
Man admits tax fraud (Odessa American)
Man admits tax fraud (Odessa American)
An Odessa businessman now awaits sentencing after pleading guilty to a felony tax evasion charge Wednesday in front of U.S. District Judge Robert Junell.
According to court documents, Joe Albert Smith admitted that he withheld a little more than $5 million in payroll taxes but didnt send the taxes to the federal government. Smith said the taxes were collected between 1998 and 2002 at Pro-Emp Solutions Inc. and Gaddis Employment Solutions Inc.
Guess the Smiths needed to liquidate assets, and quick... hence the cluster***k for the IFL in West Texas over the past few months.For its part, prosecutors have agreed not to file charges against Brandon Smith, who was listed as the incorporator of Pro-Emp Solutions.
Brandon Smith is also a former owner of the Odessa Roughnecks indoor football team. The elder Smith helped finance the purchase of the Roughnecks from Tommy and Abby Benizio, a transaction that ended in counter lawsuits that have now been settled out of court.
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indoor fan
- Site Admin
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- Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 9:31 pm
