Skeleton in Cleveland Gary's closet

[preeths]

[quote=""Malepig""]Sorry but I have a problem with this thread. If a person is not convicted of a crime then they are not guilty. Someone who is not processed is not guilty of that crime. There are clear determinations of guilt for a purpose. The fact he was arrested means nothing except he is innocent until proven guilty. So bringing up an arrest without a conviction is in bad taste.[/quote]

It's a part of the public record. Is your problem that the record is kept or that it is revealed?

A court ordered intervention program dismissed the first charges. He was processed and you can look through every step of it by clicking on the word "Docket" on the Miami-Dade website link. The fact that he was arrested and charged with insurance fraud is a part of the public record and a story by the Associated Press. The only reason we found the battery charges was we were looking to see what happened with the 2001 charges.

Sorry, he's asking people to trust in him enough to invest their money with the NIFL. They need to have a good idea with whom they are dealing. The pair of charges do not paint a complete picture of Mr. Gary, I'm sure, but they are part of the picture and potential investors deserve to see it.

[Malepig]

I know the sunshine law in Florida and believe in it. The issue is not with him or the NIFL. Let me explain it this way. Someone is arrested and found not guilty. Then someone brings it up as a skeleton or suspension of further action is wrong. He was charged with battery. As we know he is not guilty of battery. But because he was arrested for a crime he is not guilty of that makes him more likely to do wrong? Now if he was convicted of battery then yes and it should play a role. This isn't about him but anybody who has been arrested and innocent of it. Now do you understand?

As far as money and his reputation what should be looked at such as his present financial condition, financial condition of the league, etc. Not the fact he was not guilty of a crime.

[preeths]

First, I don't believe he was technically found not guilty of the battery charges. He completed a court mandated program in order to get the charges dropped, as I understand it. You can turn it into a black-and-white guilty-or-not-guilty scenario if you like, but the record tells us more than that. If you choose to ignore it, that's fine.

Many would say that history is a pretty good indication of what will happen. If someone is shown to have lied or committed fraud, it might be a good idea not to place that person in a position in which he might be tempted to do it again. I would think that the league would have learned that lesson with the entire Howard Neil Weiner fiasco. Maybe not.

[Malepig]

So you are then saying he is guilty even though he is proven innocent in the eyes of the law? You are a better person that that. The man is 100% innocent in the eyes of the law and you are saying he even though he is innocent he is a fraud? It sounds like you are just doing this to slam him and the NIFL at this point. There is better factual evidence to slam the NIFL than what you are doing proclaiming guilt on someone who is found innocent.

[preeths]

I am not a judge. I don't declare anyone guilty or innocent. I am literate and can read the public record and AP stories. You have that ability as well. If you feel the need to proclaim a sentence on him, that's your own business. Those who do business with him and league will have to make up their own minds.

[Malepig]

No the state of Florida proclaimed him innocent. That should be enough for every American.

[preeths]

You are entitled to your opinion. All others are entitled to read the public record. That's why it is kept.

[Malepig]

Paul you have done some great stuff with OSC and do encourage others to read all the good stuff you have done. However going after and attacking someone who is legally innocent is not one of them, unjustified and immoral.

[mrinsideto-u]

I will take paul's side on this one. How come Gary wont answer any questions that are brought up regarding who teams like Ark and Dallas will play next yr. Gary also claims that the NIFl does have in place a TV deal for nt yr, sounds more and more like Shiver's cronie or another HP. Malepig, would you trust Gary with your money knowing his and the league's past. When an owner spoke with gary last week he kept avoiding certain questions regarding finacial and league info. How are you to trust someone like that. Hell, i just heard that Gary said there would be a team in Dallas and Wacko, yea thats right he said Wacko not Waco. Now does that sound like a guy who needs to run a league and handle your money?

[DestroyersFan]

[quote=""xd40shooter""]So if OJ comes knocking on your door at 3 am, you let him in?[/quote]

I don't let anyone in at 3 AM. Perhaps a better question is "would you let OJ marry your daughter?"