Skeleton in Cleveland Gary's closet

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xd40shooter
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Post by xd40shooter » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:05 pm

The way I see it, this is about fairness to investors too. Is it fair to them not to bring this up and let them make their own judgement? It's a lot like Going into government work, more specifically police work. If you apply to be a police officer, you're expected to tell them everything you've done wrong. Even if you never got caught, let alone charged, or convicted. For example, if I shoplifted as a kid and don't tell them. If they find out about it later (say from a friend or family member during their investigation) They're not going to hire me. Now am I innocent until proven guilty? yes. Can that still be held against me? Yes. I realize That Gary isn't becoming a police officer, but he is taking up an office of responsibility. Not to put this information out there is unfair to potential investors.

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preeths
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Post by preeths » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:14 pm

xd40shooter, that's a good point. In the end, the investors and owners will have to make up their own minds, not about Gary's guilt or innocence, as that's a matter for the courts to decide, but if they trust him, based on a full review of his past and who he is now. They need complete information on which to base their decisions, and that includes the public record, not just what someone in the league wants them to hear.

mrinsideto-u
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Post by mrinsideto-u » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:37 pm

[quote=""preeths""]Pig, I don't think you're actually reading my replies, or anyone else's either. In the eyes of the law, you are innocent until proven guilty. We are not here to judge his innocence or guilt. That's not what we do. We are not judges. We are airing the public record.

Now its time for you to answer the questions I posed earlier in this thread, as it seems you have a double standard when dealing with Howard the Fraud. Here's a reminder of the questions:



You seemed to indicate you wouldn't based on his indoor football history, but what about the rest of the questions above. Yes or no, did WFOR or KOTA err in reporting on Howard the Fraud?



Is Weiner innocent until proven guilty? I have to assume your answer is yes. Then should all information on him be suppressed until a guilty verdict is reached?[/quote]NOT at all,,,,They have not found him to answer these charges so to me he is guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bear071
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Understand

Post by bear071 » Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:50 pm

[quote=""Malepig""]See I have no problem with that. Now does everyone finally understand?[/quote]

Malepig they will never understand, their job is to slam someone and thats all they have done all day, if they are true reporters of news they could not report half the story but yet get all the facts. If he as not answer there question he must beleive its not worth going there with them when i spoke with him all question was taken care of.

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Post by sportznut » Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:00 pm

Malepig:

My example may have been over the top. This is just another situation the league has put itself into, Mr. Gary may be a great guy and actually do a good job. But with ALL the BS we have all been put through.. It has made us all skeptical... especially when you get info from in the know people that even make you scratch your head even more in disbelief....Frustration i guess is the word....

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preeths
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Post by preeths » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:32 am

[quote=""bear071""]Malepig they will never understand, their job is to slam someone and thats all they have done all day, if they are true reporters of news they could not report half the story but yet get all the facts. If he as not answer there question he must beleive its not worth going there with them when i spoke with him all question was taken care of.[/quote]

So you spoke with him. Let us know what he had to say instead of trying to kill the messenger. That would actually contribute to the conversation here as opposed to your hit-and-run criticism.

bear071
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criticism

Post by bear071 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:17 am

[quote=""preeths""]So you spoke with him. Let us know what he had to say instead of trying to kill the messenger. That would actually contribute to the conversation here as opposed to your hit-and-run criticism.[/quote]

Well put it like this.. There is nothing to what was put out, When your a X-NFL player and you go out in the public. Then someone have something agaist you they come at you, and when they can't get close too you they say things or do things to try and bring you down in hopes that people that don't know any better buy into the non-sense like most people have here today. But if you know law and Florida you know if there is any truth to the story he would be in jail and not running a league.

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Post by Malepig » Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:46 am

[quote=""sportznut""]Malepig:

My example may have been over the top. This is just another situation the league has put itself into, Mr. Gary may be a great guy and actually do a good job. But with ALL the BS we have all been put through.. It has made us all skeptical... especially when you get info from in the know people that even make you scratch your head even more in disbelief....Frustration i guess is the word....[/quote]

I understand frustration with the NIFL. I understand how this could even be more of a farce than before. I just feel bringing up the past for which he was innocent is the wrong way to go about it. There is plenty of ammo on the NIFL and everyone can agree to that.

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preeths
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Post by preeths » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:38 am

[quote=""bear071""]Well put it like this.. There is nothing to what was put out, When your a X-NFL player and you go out in the public. Then someone have something agaist you they come at you, and when they can't get close too you they say things or do things to try and bring you down in hopes that people that don't know any better buy into the non-sense like most people have here today. But if you know law and Florida you know if there is any truth to the story he would be in jail and not running a league.[/quote]

Come on, you don't actually believe that people have a vendetta against Mr. Gary simply because he was a former NFL player? That argument is ridiculous on its face. I guess his girlfriend was part of this vast conspiracy as well. Let's ignore the battery charges and look at the insurance fraud and grand theft charges. Are you contending that it was all a set up because someone didn't like Gary since he played in the NFL?

I can see where malepig is coming from, and though I disagree, at least he's taken a defendable position. This idea of framing a guy just because he's an NFL player is patently ridiculous.

ugottabkidding
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Let me broaden the scope just a little bit

Post by ugottabkidding » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:04 pm

I can't speak to the allegations (information) regarding Mr. Gary. Haven't even thought about doing the research because I've been interested in other thiings.

Lets look at the whole NIFL management scenario.
Shiver is an amazing woman who's capacity for reality is extremely limited. Talking about 64 teams, advertising on the web, to the tune of 'You to can own a professional indoor football team'. There just aren't enough venues left and I believe there are only a limited number of potential owners left willing to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars into operations that are OBVIOUSLY misleading people right from the get go. Talking about the $2.5 million value of these franchises. FRAUD. I will say this about Carolyn. I do believe (don't know for a fact) that she is still getting some sort of franchise fee for her teams as she tries to con people into comiong into her league. Cleveland Gary is there to attempt to legitimize this as a former NFL star and she is using him in the worst way.

You've got a similar situation over in the AIFL. Andrew Haines, the founder and immediate past CEO (I guess) sells the guy in Asheville a bill of goods with outright lies in exchange of e-mails (now part of the record for anyone to see thanks to this Forum) and he doesn't even bother to respond to the civil suit that was fiiled and subsequently decided against him. Game officials around that league got bad checks as did others. Haines basically gave away the farm to get teams back into that league to fill it out for this year. I supposee one can't blame owners for deciding to join a league for little or nothing up front but I am absoluetly flabbergasted that a reasonably succesful businessman can't see beyond the immediate discount ( or fre ) franchise and ask, why ? And what about the other older franchises, are they coming back in for little or nothing as well, or are they getting the shaft out the back door.

And what's up with three new leagues apparently in the offing. The WIFL has been cruising along with six franchises, but two that were originally announced dropped out. At least there are some teams there, but why haven't they been able to fill out to eight or ten. It's largely because several owners saw the cheap, (or free) opportunity in the AIFL and said, well, lets give it a try. I suppose in a sense I can't blame them. I think the WIFL people thought several franchises were a lock and that didn't happen and now they're hustling to fill it up.

The Professional Indoor Football folks saw they weren't going to be able to get it done and backed off for a year and I would bet the House that they never happen. Same thing for the Ultimate and whatever that other one was named.

Minor league indoor football is going to HAVE to develop an overriding organizational structure if the game is to survive. The GAME cannot afford the frequent announcements and then recapitulation of owners like Tri Cities, and the outright folding of franchises like, well, you fill in the blanks here.

All of that said, the United and Great Lakes leagues appear to be doing well. I think the United is doing well ( and again, I don't know specifics) is that they have taken a stance regarding quality of ownership and are apparently requiring significant up front money to make sure they're owners are solid. I don't know what role in running tyhe eague that the owners have, but I can tell this, I don't hear any names like Carolyn or Andrew being bandied about with respect to that organization. Same goes for the Great Lakes league.

It's such a smae that such a fantastic game is being mired in the quagmire of a few uncrupulous people to the poiont that we are on message boards like this talking about this and not who's got ther best quarterback ar what running back is the best or who's cornerback delivers the hardest hits !

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