It seems pretty obvious to me that the relevance of the tryout athlete being a high school dropout is that high school dropouts do not have careers in the NFL. It is, like many casual stories about the AFL or other non-National football leagues, a story about a lower-tier league offering opportunities to people who do not receive them at the highest level.
I see no malice or ignorance either in the original article or in the original post. Just a fairly standard "guy-with-potential-who-wouldn't-get-a-major-league-shot" minor-league sports story.
a 10th grade dropout who ran a 4.28!
[quote=""jcompton""]It seems pretty obvious to me that the relevance of the tryout athlete being a high school dropout is that high school dropouts do not have careers in the NFL. It is, like many casual stories about the AFL or other non-National football leagues, a story about a lower-tier league offering opportunities to people who do not receive them at the highest level.
I see no malice or ignorance either in the original article or in the original post. Just a fairly standard "guy-with-potential-who-wouldn't-get-a-major-league-shot" minor-league sports story.[/quote]
I have to admit, that's the way I saw it, too. Not only did he not have any NFL experience, but no college experience either, rare even in the minors. Where was race even mentioned?
I see no malice or ignorance either in the original article or in the original post. Just a fairly standard "guy-with-potential-who-wouldn't-get-a-major-league-shot" minor-league sports story.[/quote]
I have to admit, that's the way I saw it, too. Not only did he not have any NFL experience, but no college experience either, rare even in the minors. Where was race even mentioned?
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Caballo Diablo
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I tried to comment without all of the quotes, but when I posted it came up on another page with a couple of other comments already listed. Now I've got to edit and add your post I was commenting on to add relevance. Sometimes quotes do help.
[quote=""Hockey""]We can keep this civil.
Please look at the title of this thread. " a 10th grade dropout who ran a 4.28!" This is where I got my "he ran fast even though he has no education." Your going to tell me this topic does not at all tell you he has no education?
You are correct that the article adds more perspective, explaining his action to support his family. However the title is not "Good person runs 4.28!".
Also, I said its at best moronic and at worst racist. I said it to explain the level of concern I have with this type of comment.
I really don't like having discussions with people who break down and respond to every sentence. Its not a logical way for online discourse. It makes it very difficult to respond structurally when you have made multiple points in no discernible order. That may be applicable to a debate, but it is not a traditional method of communication and it really impedes further discussion.[/quote]
I was under the impression that we were having a civil discussion. Just because a person disagrees or is concerned over what another says doesn't constitute fighting or other uncivil behavior. I wasn't aware that only people that agree could comment. Afterall, your comments were all about disagreeing with the thread. I haven't jumped up and down screaming or attacked, just disagreed over a few of your points.
I also agree with some of your points. Sorry you don't like the break down of items. It's very logical. It should make it easier to respond structurally and most are in exact order. Is posting on a message board considered a "traditional" method of communication? Just because you don't like the format, it doesn't impede civil discussion.
No, this topic doesn't tell me he has no education. The topic author also gave a link to the story, which leads me to believe he read it. The story states the athlete is 24 years old. That means he dropped out of school around 8 years ago meaning there was the possibility he went back and completed either his education or GED. I personally know some people who dropped out of school, both H.S. and college, yet have gone on to be very educated people. I guess I just don't assume people are uneducated or "dumb" because of it.
The story also says why, because his family was in severe need of the income. I would assume you also read the story before posting, this assumption is part of my disagreement. Once again, sorry you don't like my format, but it does help some readers when you're counterpointing, especially when you're discussing points from several posts back. Sure, I could just type what you said and use quotation marks but is it really much different?
[quote=""Hockey""]What is your correlation between his dropping out of school and his speed. It just rubs me the wrong way to imply that a kid can't be talented in any way because he was not successful in the broken education system we have.
The education system failed him, he did not fail the education system.[/quote]
I agree with your question as to what the correlation is but disagree that he wasn't successful because of a broken education system. How can you say the education system failed him? He didn't drop out due to poor grades or an educational problem being neglected. Paul even commented on this. I'm not much for one liners, I typically explain why I feel that way. You are either jumping to conclusions about his school yourself or just dislike the education system.
Then in your next post you seem to become uncilvil and lob attacks at the author without giving him the chance to even answer your question about the "correlation." You say moronic at best and racist at worst. Moronic is debatable both ways, but possibly just not thought out. Racist was a low blow and in my mind came out of left field. Yes, racism is prevelant in out society and it's a very ugly thing. When it occurs it needs to be dealt with harshly, but the accusation, in my mind shouldn't be thrown around lightly because it is a serious issue.
In both of your first two posts you say, "it rubs me the wrong way," but it seems you feel it's wrong for others to comment when things rub them the wrong way. Confusing to say the least. I'm not smacking or ranting, just stating my opinions on what was posted, same as you were.
As to the poor media/reporting, I didn't have a problem with the story. It was titled "Invincible" and wasn't a slam on the athlete. It was about his attempt to follow his dream and listed some bumps along the way. Even if he had completed H.S. originally he was a long ways away from that time period and when he had last played the game. That is a larger struggle than his perceived education status. Like coach Ho said, just being fast doesn't cut it. I wish him the best and hope his other athletic attributes are as good as his speed.
I agree the title of the thread was perplexing and questioning it was relevant. I just saw no need to name call or throw out ugly labels over it. Strictly my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree. In a civil manner of course.
[quote=""Hockey""]We can keep this civil.
Please look at the title of this thread. " a 10th grade dropout who ran a 4.28!" This is where I got my "he ran fast even though he has no education." Your going to tell me this topic does not at all tell you he has no education?
You are correct that the article adds more perspective, explaining his action to support his family. However the title is not "Good person runs 4.28!".
Also, I said its at best moronic and at worst racist. I said it to explain the level of concern I have with this type of comment.
I really don't like having discussions with people who break down and respond to every sentence. Its not a logical way for online discourse. It makes it very difficult to respond structurally when you have made multiple points in no discernible order. That may be applicable to a debate, but it is not a traditional method of communication and it really impedes further discussion.[/quote]
I was under the impression that we were having a civil discussion. Just because a person disagrees or is concerned over what another says doesn't constitute fighting or other uncivil behavior. I wasn't aware that only people that agree could comment. Afterall, your comments were all about disagreeing with the thread. I haven't jumped up and down screaming or attacked, just disagreed over a few of your points.
I also agree with some of your points. Sorry you don't like the break down of items. It's very logical. It should make it easier to respond structurally and most are in exact order. Is posting on a message board considered a "traditional" method of communication? Just because you don't like the format, it doesn't impede civil discussion.
No, this topic doesn't tell me he has no education. The topic author also gave a link to the story, which leads me to believe he read it. The story states the athlete is 24 years old. That means he dropped out of school around 8 years ago meaning there was the possibility he went back and completed either his education or GED. I personally know some people who dropped out of school, both H.S. and college, yet have gone on to be very educated people. I guess I just don't assume people are uneducated or "dumb" because of it.
The story also says why, because his family was in severe need of the income. I would assume you also read the story before posting, this assumption is part of my disagreement. Once again, sorry you don't like my format, but it does help some readers when you're counterpointing, especially when you're discussing points from several posts back. Sure, I could just type what you said and use quotation marks but is it really much different?
[quote=""Hockey""]What is your correlation between his dropping out of school and his speed. It just rubs me the wrong way to imply that a kid can't be talented in any way because he was not successful in the broken education system we have.
The education system failed him, he did not fail the education system.[/quote]
I agree with your question as to what the correlation is but disagree that he wasn't successful because of a broken education system. How can you say the education system failed him? He didn't drop out due to poor grades or an educational problem being neglected. Paul even commented on this. I'm not much for one liners, I typically explain why I feel that way. You are either jumping to conclusions about his school yourself or just dislike the education system.
Then in your next post you seem to become uncilvil and lob attacks at the author without giving him the chance to even answer your question about the "correlation." You say moronic at best and racist at worst. Moronic is debatable both ways, but possibly just not thought out. Racist was a low blow and in my mind came out of left field. Yes, racism is prevelant in out society and it's a very ugly thing. When it occurs it needs to be dealt with harshly, but the accusation, in my mind shouldn't be thrown around lightly because it is a serious issue.
In both of your first two posts you say, "it rubs me the wrong way," but it seems you feel it's wrong for others to comment when things rub them the wrong way. Confusing to say the least. I'm not smacking or ranting, just stating my opinions on what was posted, same as you were.
As to the poor media/reporting, I didn't have a problem with the story. It was titled "Invincible" and wasn't a slam on the athlete. It was about his attempt to follow his dream and listed some bumps along the way. Even if he had completed H.S. originally he was a long ways away from that time period and when he had last played the game. That is a larger struggle than his perceived education status. Like coach Ho said, just being fast doesn't cut it. I wish him the best and hope his other athletic attributes are as good as his speed.
I agree the title of the thread was perplexing and questioning it was relevant. I just saw no need to name call or throw out ugly labels over it. Strictly my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree. In a civil manner of course.
Last edited by Caballo Diablo on Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
To clarify one thing quick, I totally messed up my first line. I mean't to say "I'm glad we can keep this civil." Was meant to be a compliment that went horribly wrong.
Overall I think we are on the same side here. My clarifying statement may be harsh, but it is at the level of my issue with the concept.
The one thing I do not agree with is the line by line respond. It makes sense for you as the poster, but it makes it difficult to respond to you after your response.
So how about we stick with 85% agreement on the whole thread.
Overall I think we are on the same side here. My clarifying statement may be harsh, but it is at the level of my issue with the concept.
The one thing I do not agree with is the line by line respond. It makes sense for you as the poster, but it makes it difficult to respond to you after your response.
So how about we stick with 85% agreement on the whole thread.
..[quote=""Caballo Diablo""]It rubs many the wrong way when people are overly sensitive and throw out the race card.
The story linked says he was a dropout and explains why. It had nothing to do with his grades or intelligence. The poster didn't say he was dumb, he just quoted a fact from the article. And as of now he hasn't shown to be a successful athlete, he ran fast and even Coach Ho said that doesn't mean much at this point as a lone factor. Even the kid says it's his fastest ever, but his average he states is also pretty fast.
Why is it racist, who brougfht that into the discussion besides you? You must feel only one particular race drops out or can run fast. It seems you matched the moronic yourself.
Just saying...[/quote]
My take on it was "Good for him. He was put in a bad situation but he may have a way out of it because of a physical gift." My first clue was the article's title "Invincible 2". I'm in total agreement with Caballo Diablo btw.
The story linked says he was a dropout and explains why. It had nothing to do with his grades or intelligence. The poster didn't say he was dumb, he just quoted a fact from the article. And as of now he hasn't shown to be a successful athlete, he ran fast and even Coach Ho said that doesn't mean much at this point as a lone factor. Even the kid says it's his fastest ever, but his average he states is also pretty fast.
Why is it racist, who brougfht that into the discussion besides you? You must feel only one particular race drops out or can run fast. It seems you matched the moronic yourself.
Just saying...[/quote]
My take on it was "Good for him. He was put in a bad situation but he may have a way out of it because of a physical gift." My first clue was the article's title "Invincible 2". I'm in total agreement with Caballo Diablo btw.
Life is funny, unless you're too stupid to get the joke.
