Jackhammers in trouble, need cash for bills...

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:01 pm

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]Despite you unrelenting cheer leading of the Fielders, the facts are they did not actually draw anywhere near the numbers posted, the people they did sell to paid $5 or less, and lots of tickets were simply given away. The people up there now know what they are dealing with in Ehrenreich. All the wonderful jobs promised did not materialize. The City of Zion has probably taken a loss on this. I expect the franchise to simply fold because it is not capable of making a profit under the present circumstances, and there is no funding for a real stadium in the foreseeable future.

As for Joliet, I think the Jackhammers are finished. They never really developed much of a fan base, the team has zero value on the open market, and I think Joliet will try to come up with something different for Silver Cross. What that might be, I don't know, but continuing with the present set up seems doomed, and I think everyone realizes that.[/quote]

The people now know what they are dealing with in Ehrenreich?!? The Fielders will simply fold?!? The JackHammers are finished?!? Says who?!? Any links to support your conclusions?!? Where are you getting this stuff?

The Fielders will be back and so will the JackHammers. As far as me being factually challenged, did you read my link about the JackHammers' lease agreement and what happens when their attendance reaches a certain level? If you read it, then what's the problem? BTW, the Railcats also have a similar clause, but their level is lower.

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Post by J.J. Smith » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:48 pm

[quote=""Ken, Steelheads fan""]Yes, the Railcats' annual payments are roughly the same as the Jackhammers' payments. Their payments are also roughly the same as the Flyers' payments. Why? These city's (among others with comparable sized ballparks) agreements were used as guidelines. I was a local politician during Gary's entire ballpark conception to completion process. I'm a card-carrying member of the better party, so I sleep well at night knowing I didn't have to be one of those "government parasites" you mentioned. An in-law at the time was on the Gary city council and the city controller at the time later became a business associate, so I know about the deals that brought the ballpark, Railcats, and Northern League to Gary. It's nothing earthshaking though. Here is a public link about the Railcats annual payments to the city:
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/article_ ... eddf2.html

Mind you, the city charges the Railcats extra when attendance tops a specific level (and that level was set rather low purposely). The Railcats have been topping that attendance level for quite a few years now. At the end of the day, that $150,000 becomes roughly $200,000 (what the Jackhammers are supposed to pay Joliet) or possibly more.

Now this is what I could find about the Jackhammers annual payments to THEIR city:

http://mchenrycountyblog.com/category/m ... -baseball/

...and this is some of the public consumption stuff.

Am I a bit economically challenged?!? I don't know. Do I work for Gary's Department of Finance? No. I DO know the jury is still out on whether downtown ballparks stimulate surrounding growth. It took decades for downtowns in Joliet and Gary to decay. It's going to take awhile for them to recover, especially when the economy has hit rock bottom like now. Could these cities have built more modest Frontier League type ballparks in their downtowns? Sure. They could have also built high school quality ballparks and saved even more money. Cities are judged on their downtown areas though. That's why the nationwide trend the last few decades has been to build lavish ballparks in or near downtowns. How do you put a value on perception?[/quote]

So you were a local politician and now you're in business with your relative who was the city controller and a council member? That explains a lot about your posts. And government parasites come from both parties, but I'm glad you're at least sleeping well.

The link you posted...http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/article_ ... eddf2.html was from 2006! And it says nothing about any excess payments over $150,000. Should we just take your word for it? The link also says that the team paid no rent at all for the first two years. Sweet. You also failed to mention the 40% cut of the rent the Railcats get from the restaurant in the Steel Yard.

I brought up this Gary rent deal early on in this thread about Joliet to point out that Joliet may have to fashion something along the lines of the Gary deal to keep a franchise going in their city. I've not heard that the Railcats don't pay their other bills, so that puts them way ahead of certain other local teams. Salvi seems to be runninig a good operation there. Gary is lucky to have anyone willing to do business in their city.


Your link to Cal Skinners blog is an odd one...
http://mchenrycountyblog.com/category/m ... e-baseball
Cal Skinner is completely opposed to the kind of taxpayer ripoff deals such as came about in Gary and Joliet. It also adds no new information. Did you post it by mistake?

The jury is not out on these projects. They have failed, pure and simple. If only it was as easy planting the magic bean of an expensive sports facility to revive a dying downtown. A dubious concept to begin with, but coupled with incompetent, corrupt governments-hopeless.

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:14 pm

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]So you were a local politician and now you're in business with your relative who was the city controller and a council member? That explains a lot about your posts. And government parasites come from both parties, but I'm glad you're at least sleeping well.

The link you posted...http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/article_ ... eddf2.html was from 2006! And it says nothing about any excess payments over $150,000. Should we just take your word for it? The link also says that the team paid no rent at all for the first two years. Sweet. You also failed to mention the 40% cut of the rent the Railcats get from the restaurant in the Steel Yard.

I brought up this Gary rent deal early on in this thread about Joliet to point out that Joliet may have to fashion something along the lines of the Gary deal to keep a franchise going in their city. I've not heard that the Railcats don't pay their other bills, so that puts them way ahead of certain other local teams. Salvi seems to be runninig a good operation there. Gary is lucky to have anyone willing to do business in their city.


Your link to Cal Skinners blog is an odd one...
http://mchenrycountyblog.com/category/m ... e-baseball
Cal Skinner is completely opposed to the kind of taxpayer ripoff deals such as came about in Gary and Joliet. It also adds no new information. Did you post it by mistake?

The jury is not out on these projects. They have failed, pure and simple. If only it was as easy planting the magic bean of an expensive sports facility to revive a dying downtown. A dubious concept to begin with, but coupled with incompetent, corrupt governments-hopeless.[/quote]

Wow! You're getting a lot wrong although the information is in front of you. Please re-read my posts (especially about the city controller, business, in-law, etc.).

$150,000 is the Railcats' basic lease payment. $200,000 is the JackHammers' basic lease payment according to the link I provided. Both amounts may increase considerably when total season attendance exceeds a predetermined level. That may account for the $232,000 you cited in another post. What have the JackHammers' season totals been like? Now re-read the contents of the link I provided...and furthermore, no I did not post the link by mistake. Why should the opinion of the blogger matter to me or YOU for that matter?!? Look at the data...but you have to actually read the article. The article seems to be scanned from a newspaper, otherwise I would provide a quote to help this process along.

Now, on the subject of the Railcats not needing to make payments to the city their first two seasons in the ballpark. Sweet deal, right? WRONG! The ballpark wasn't ready during the Railcats' first year of existence, therefore they had to play as a road team. No chance of revenue. No ticket sales, no beer sales, no merchandise sales, no nothing. It was the city's fault for not finishing the ballpark. No team payments to the city the first two years at the completed ballpark was part of the compensation.

I failed to mention the 40% cut of the restaurant??!!?? First, it was 100% until a little over a year ago. The CITY actually asked the new owner for a cut. The restaurant belongs to the team as long as the team calls U.S. Steel Yard home. It's not the city's restaurant. I mentioned the restaurant, pool tables, and leather sofas in my earliest post. I also mentioned that the Railcats get more ballpark for the money if that's what you meant by a sweet deal, but as far as the cash actually paid to the city it was roughly the same as what Joliet is paying...and yes, roughly means approximately if you're still unsure. I've mentioned this all in previous posts in this same thread but you actually have to READ the posts and not simply react. I'm not trying to be insulting when I keep saying to read. Please read what's being posted and please read the contents of the links.

...and yes, you'll just have to take my word on some things like the Railcats having a similar clause like Joliet in their lease agreement. It's quite time consuming to search for old links to prove a point and quite useless when you're not going to read (or comprehend) the contents of these links.

I agree with you totally on Pat Salvi, Railcats owner. Pat is the best thing to come to Gary in a long time. He's eager to invest money in the area around the ballpark and that's one of the reasons for building downtown ballparks and stadiums. I totally disagree with your opinion on the failure of downtown ballparks and stadiums though. Another reason for building them is to bring people into the downtown areas, which they do by default--but to state that they have failed in their mission is premature to say the least.

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Post by J.J. Smith » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:07 pm

[quote=""Ken, Steelheads fan""]Wow! You're getting a lot wrong although the information is in front of you. Please re-read my posts (especially about the city controller, business, in-law, etc.).

$150,000 is the Railcats' basic lease payment. $200,000 is the JackHammers' basic lease payment according to the link I provided. Both amounts may increase considerably when total season attendance exceeds a predetermined level. That may account for the $232,000 you cited in another post. What have the JackHammers' season totals been like? Now re-read the contents of the link I provided...and furthermore, no I did not post the link by mistake. Why should the opinion of the blogger matter to me or YOU for that matter?!? Look at the data...but you have to actually read the article. The article seems to be scanned from a newspaper, otherwise I would provide a quote to help this process along.

Now, on the subject of the Railcats not needing to make payments to the city their first two seasons in the ballpark. Sweet deal, right? WRONG! The ballpark wasn't ready during the Railcats' first year of existence, therefore they had to play as a road team. No chance of revenue. No ticket sales, no beer sales, no merchandise sales, no nothing. It was the city's fault for not finishing the ballpark. No team payments to the city the first two years at the completed ballpark was part of the compensation.

I failed to mention the 40% cut of the restaurant??!!?? First, it was 100% until a little over a year ago. The CITY actually asked the new owner for a cut. The restaurant belongs to the team as long as the team calls U.S. Steel Yard home. It's not the city's restaurant. I mentioned the restaurant, pool tables, and leather sofas in my earliest post. I also mentioned that the Railcats get more ballpark for the money if that's what you meant by a sweet deal, but as far as the cash actually paid to the city it was roughly the same as what Joliet is paying...and yes, roughly means approximately if you're still unsure. I've mentioned this all in previous posts in this same thread but you actually have to READ the posts and not simply react. I'm not trying to be insulting when I keep saying to read. Please read what's being posted and please read the contents of the links.

...and yes, you'll just have to take my word on some things like the Railcats having a similar clause like Joliet in their lease agreement. It's quite time consuming to search for old links to prove a point and quite useless when you're not going to read (or comprehend) the contents of these links.

I agree with you totally on Pat Salvi, Railcats owner. Pat is the best thing to come to Gary in a long time. He's eager to invest money in the area around the ballpark and that's one of the reasons for building downtown ballparks and stadiums. I totally disagree with your opinion on the failure of downtown ballparks and stadiums though. Another reason for building them is to bring people into the downtown areas, which they do by default--but to state that they have failed in their mission is premature to say the least.[/quote]

I did read the acticle in that sloppy link you provided. I read it when it first came out in the Tribune, as a matter of fact.

Here is the relevant information in it, since you were too lazy to bother...

"The Jackhammers have a 15 year lease that includes $200,000 a year in rent, adjusted for inflation. Their contract also includes a clause stipulating that if the team exceed certain attendance levels, it's rent would increase."

Since there has been inflation since 2002 and we have no information as to what the attendance level is or what the rate of increase would be, this liink ads no new information. But I encourage everyone to read the other stories on that blog to see how people try to scam the taxpayers for personal profit.

In addition to not paying any rent for the first two seasons, the City of Gary paid a hefty fine to the Railcats for not having the stadium ready of the initial season. The number I've seen the most is $1 million dollars. SWEET!

The way the Railcats base license fee is structured, $150, 000 is the base. Above 150,000 in attendance is supposed to include a surcharge of $1.25 per ticket for the next 50,000, and $1.50 after that. There is no record of these surcharges ever being paid.

As far as the jury being out...that's a convenient excuse, is it not?

Here's an interesting link on the subject of downtown development and the impact the Steel Yard has had on it.

http://my.nwi.com/post/group/BusINess_M ... nting.html

To quote from the article...

"The U.S. Steel Yard baseball park hasn’t brought the expected revitalization to this area of the city, a situation the Gary SouthShore RailCats franchise owner calls “disappointing.”

"“Everyone is frustrated, confused about what the solution is to this. Should what we do be grand or small-scale? Do we take baby steps or grandiose steps forward?” he said.

Much of the frustration, Salvi said, is knowing if money earmarked for improvements will actually be used properly.

“There are concerns about whether the money would be managed correctly,” he said. “Federal money for demolishing buildings was lost, because (HUD) didn’t believe that money would be managed correctly.

I kind of understand why a lot of people throw their hands up and give up."

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:04 pm

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]I did read the acticle in that sloppy link you provided. I read it when it first came out in the Tribune, as a matter of fact.

Here is the relevant information in it, since you were too lazy to bother...
...

The way the Railcats base license fee is structured, $150, 000 is the base. Above 150,000 in attendance is supposed to include a surcharge of $1.25 per ticket for the next 50,000, and $1.50 after that. There is no record of these surcharges ever being paid.
...
[/quote]

As far as the link being sloppy, you would have to take that up with my Yahoo search engine. I just copied and pasted. As far as me being lazy, I totally agree because I would rather hit Chicago's lakefront to catch some vitamin D. Thanks for reading the contents of the link though.

As far as the Railcats surcharges being paid or not, the city has certainly asked for the money. Do you have reason to believe the money has NOT been paid?

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:14 pm

Ironically, the city of Joliet is contemplating the same thing the village of Schaumburg has already done. Joliet is contemplating terminating the JackHammers' lease.

http://heraldnews.suntimes.com/sports/2 ... eball.html
An offer to buy the team was reportedly made last week. But the JackHammers appear to be holding out for more money to cover debt they accumulated by not paying bills in the 2010 season.
Dollars to donuts the same thing happened in Schaumburg and that's why the Flyers also have not been sold. The sellers want more money for their teams.
“If it doesn’t get resolved soon, we know what our next step will be,” Thanas said.

That means the city breaks the lease with the JackHammers, who still owe $216,000 in old rent, and lines up another minor league team for next season. The city has talked about making its own deal for weeks but has held off as the threat of a bankruptcy entanglement became increasingly real.
Joliet wants to cut-out the middle man (in this case the JackHammers) like Schaumburg cut-out the middle man Flyers. The village of Schaumburg hasn't announced (as of this post) that they have brokered a deal with a new franchise, but it seems the logical thing for them to have done in my opinion.

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