Lake County Attendance

[ca]

how can you afford to have a large amount of no shows or over reported attendance when many of these tickets are discounted . plus these folks or lack thereof dont buy concessions either . lake county may not be doing all that bad since they play in a 6k madison style pk but the real problem may be oakland county a huge disparity between actual and reported attendance

[nlfan]

Uh... which are the "good numbers" for indy ball? The occasional (once a week) 5K or the more common (so far) 2.5K numbers? Fireworks nights will increase attendance but they also are inherently more expensive (though fans are more likely to buy more concessions since they will stay through the entire game and not leave early).

For the NoL, 3K/gm is typically the break even point. For the NoL these numbers are not (traditionally) good since none of the current franchises (Rockford excluded) have (ever) drawn under 3K/gm.

The overall numbers at the new ballpark (only) are in the 3K/gm level (3,512 as of 8.Aug.10) but they are trending down, not up. That suggests that there are fewer return customers... or that the "word of mouth" isn't strong enough for the numbers to increase... or the pools of free tickets are running out.

After a "big opening night," attendance typically starts out lower in May due to school night restrictions keeping families from attending then recovers as the summer progresses. That's not what's happened so far. The next 2 homestands (13 games) will give us the last of the attendance stats for this phase of the Fielders.

[ca]

if you sell a lot of tickets in a basic pk but at some pt even that can become a problem especially down the road

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

[quote=""nlfan""]Uh... which are the "good numbers" for indy ball? The occasional (once a week) 5K or the more common (so far) 2.5K numbers? Fireworks nights will increase attendance but they also are inherently more expensive (though fans are more likely to buy more concessions since they will stay through the entire game and not leave early).
...
[/quote]

Which are the good numbers for indy ball?!? The good numbers for indy ball are the numbers that bring a franchise closer to profitability. It's that simple. Fireworks nights and other popular promotions draw large crowds. Teams depend on these promotions for survival. As I stated before, why ignore Fireworks nights when looking at attendance?!? Teams aren't ignoring their bread and butter either. For example, 25% of the Gary Railcats' remaining games will be Fireworks nights:
http://www.railcatsbaseball.com/schedule/promoschedule/

Also, if you notice on the linked schedule page, the Gary fireworks nights are ALL attached to multiple sponsors. That's how the costs of inherently expensive promotions are defrayed...but I think you know about the need for sponsorship already.

[quote=""nlfan""]
...
After a "big opening night," attendance typically starts out lower in May due to school night restrictions keeping families from attending then recovers as the summer progresses. That's not what's happened so far. The next 2 homestands (13 games) will give us the last of the attendance stats for this phase of the Fielders.[/quote]

First (and going back to your first quote), The occasonal once a week promotion is a lot more than "the occasional once a week" since teams don't play home games 7-days a week, 4-weeks a month. Fireworks nights occur a lot more often in comparison to the actual schedule (as demonstrated by my link).

Second, The Lake County Fielders played all their May games on the road. There was no May attendance to start lower then recover as the summer progresses. Also, your logic seems to omit the fact the Fielders are a first year team and attendance has settled-in after the initial curiosity factor. Crunch the numbers. The Fielders' attendance (new ballpark only) is head and shoulders better than the majority of independent league baseball teams.

[nlfan]

You're correct that the LC average at Zion for the games 3,410 is pretty good. But it comes in at #22 of the 56 indy teams (based upon 2009 attendance figures). Hardly head and shoulders over the majority. Then again, this season's figures are likely to be significantly lower across the board (everyone's hurting).

Good point on the sponsorship. The Fielders have "SPTRS" sponsoring theirs.

As for frequency of fireworks and their impact... it's not consistent for the Fielders. I'm not sure if Friday, July 9 was a fireworks night, but attendance was only 3,127. Their next Friday (fireworks?) was 3 weeks later (and a DH) and had only 3,907. Also the Fielders' schedule, since they were on the road so much to start the season does have them playing "full weeks" to end the season (8/1-8/8, 8/16-8/22, 8/31-9/6).

As for not having to fight school nights at the start of the season, that is/was something of a help. It still doesn't explain why attendance is dropping off when it should be rising (like other clubs and even with a May deficit due to school nights).

[heavesrock]

I think the number one problem is the obvious one: the stadium. It's not bad, it'll do, but it's not spectacular, and pictures of it don't exactly inspire the average person to head out there. The first season of a team is usually the best they have for a while in attendance, and the Fielders have cheated themselves out of that by not having a real stadium. Attendance will go down next year, especially if they are in the same ballpark. When (if) they get that stadium put up, attendance will rise a bit, but not to the levels it would have had they built this year.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

[quote=""nlfan""]
...
As for frequency of fireworks and their impact... it's not consistent for the Fielders. I'm not sure if Friday, July 9 was a fireworks night, but attendance was only 3,127. Their next Friday (fireworks?) was 3 weeks later (and a DH) and had only 3,907. Also the Fielders' schedule, since they were on the road so much to start the season does have them playing "full weeks" to end the season (8/1-8/8, 8/16-8/22, 8/31-9/6).

As for not having to fight school nights at the start of the season, that is/was something of a help. It still doesn't explain why attendance is dropping off when it should be rising (like other clubs and even with a May deficit due to school nights).[/quote]

...and the crummy weather? Have you factored that into fireworks night attendance? For example, tonight is a fireworks night in Gary (August 20th). It's 90 degrees, overcast, and showers are expected here in the Chicago area. It's been wet and muggy all summer.

I'm not sure what your point is about full weeks to end the season. Teams don't play 7 home games a week, 4 weeks out of the month. That's why I gave an example of the percentage of fireworks nights remaining on the Railcats home schedule (25% to be exact).

Attendance dropping off in comparison to other clubs?!? You're still ignoring the built-in curiosity factor. Other established teams don't have that. Is attendance dropping off or is attendance leveling off? The Fielders numbers you are posting are still good numbers. Are you making a point about the Fielders' attendance? I'm certainly making a point about the Fielders' attendance. My point is the Fielders' attendance (and front office effort in general) suggests Zion is going to be yet another successful Northern League franchise. The logic attempting to support the contrary (I have seen here and elsewhere) is flawed at best.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

[quote=""heavesrock""]I think the number one problem is the obvious one: the stadium. It's not bad, it'll do, but it's not spectacular, and pictures of it don't exactly inspire the average person to head out there. The first season of a team is usually the best they have for a while in attendance, and the Fielders have cheated themselves out of that by not having a real stadium. Attendance will go down next year, especially if they are in the same ballpark. When (if) they get that stadium put up, attendance will rise a bit, but not to the levels it would have had they built this year.[/quote]

I think it's much simpler than that. If the fans enjoy their game experience regardless of the ballpark, then they will return. If they don't enjoy it, then they won't. BTW, it's refreshing that you reached a logical conclusion...and that's not a specific knock on nlfan because there have been many WTF type conclusions from a few others. Apparently, the Fielders bring that out of people.

[J.J. Smith]

[quote=""Ken, Steelheads fan""] BTW, it's refreshing that you reached a logical conclusion...and that's not a specific knock on nlfan because there have been many WTF type conclusions from a few others. Apparently, the Fielders bring that out of people. [/quote]

The "attendance" figures they release are grossly exaggerated (to placate the sponsors who paid for something better and make it seem that everything is A-OK), the facility is third rate, and the actual attendance numbers are dropping. So my "WTF" conclusion is that this franchise is in trouble if it can't come up with a real stadium- real fast. Does anyone see that happening in the current economic environment? And I don't think people have a problem with "the Fielders"-they have a problem with the way ownership has run things.

[ca]

that over estimates the head count as the fl has its lc as well and the future of these clubs amongst others could hang in the balance