Lake County Attendance

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J.J. Smith
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Lake County Attendance

Post by J.J. Smith » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:19 pm

I came across this fan submitted aerial photograph of the Fielders park on their Facebook page...

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1 ... 1301748056

This was from the first home night game on Monday. They claimed attendance of 4,600! This looks more like about 2,000 to me. What do you think the full capacity of this place might be? I'd guess about 3,000.

I don't want to get into the beaten down "paid" vs "actual" attendance argument, but it seems the Fielders are massively inflating their numbers. That is always a sign of a troubled franchise. They claimed over 6,000 for their home opener in the first week of July! Can't even imagine 6,000 people in that space.

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Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:02 pm

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]
...
I don't want to get into the beaten down "paid" vs "actual" attendance argument, but it seems the Fielders are massively inflating their numbers. That is always a sign of a troubled franchise. They claimed over 6,000 for their home opener in the first week of July! Can't even imagine 6,000 people in that space.[/quote]

..but your post is doing exactly that. It's beating the same old paid vs. actual turnstile horse. Every franchise in North America (and probably the world) reports paid attendance. The Fielders aren't doing anything any differently than anyone else. They claimed over 6,000 for their home opener?!? You can take that same crowd size and air drop them into any ballpark anywhere and get the same results, over 6,000 paid attendance. There are pics available of the Fielders' home opener. That crowd was huge. Also, the Fielders' temporary bleachers are just that--bleachers. More bodies can squeeze into fewer square footage than with chair-back seats. Consider that if you think enough fans can't fit into the Fielders' seating areas.

Sign of a troubled franchise?!? I don't think the evidence supports your opinion. The Fielders seem to have a good fan base and from the aerial photograph, it seems that this is a professionally run operation (with lights).

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Post by J.J. Smith » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:38 pm

You actually believe there were 6,000 people in that park? You're either on the Fielders payroll, or you're delusional. And why would you or anyone else believe any number put out by an organization that has done nothing but put out one lie after another for going on a year and a half?

The photo shows that it's a "professionally run operation (with lights)"? The park district softball field I play at has lights. All I see is a baseball diamond with some bleachers, porta potties and tents. Maybe you're seeing something I'm not. I thought the Northern League had these high standards for it's facilities. This looks totally bush. They should be embarrassed.

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Don't shoot the messenger.

Post by Ken, Steelheads fan » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:01 pm

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]You actually believe there were 6,000 people in that park? You're either on the Fielders payroll, or you're delusional. And why would you or anyone else believe any number put out by an organization that has done nothing but put out one lie after another for going on a year and a half?

The photo shows that it's a "professionally run operation (with lights)"? The park district softball field I play at has lights. All I see is a baseball diamond with some bleachers, porta potties and tents. Maybe you're seeing something I'm not. I thought the Northern League had these high standards for it's facilities. This looks totally bush. They should be embarrassed.[/quote]

I actually believe the paid attendance was well over 6,000 and any franchise anywhere would easily announce that crowd as over 6,000 (as I stated in my previous post). I wouldn't know what the turnstile count is because teams usually keep that information private. Sorry, I'm not on the Fielders' payroll...but sometimes I DO have delusions of grandeur (so you may be half right :wink: ). Turnstile counts are most often used for determining how much a team should pay for leasing the ballpark.

When I looked at the aerial photograph I paid close attention to the precise lines of the concrete foundation and infrastructure (I've already seen pics of rain sewers), a circular-like driveway leading to the front of the ballpark. That IS a circular-like driveway in front of the ballpark, isn't it? Also, I noticed the precise lines of the the outer fence beyond the batters' eye in center field. This ballpark isn't just being thrown together. There seems to be an architectural process at work. That's why I love photographs. They have a story to tell that words can't tell alone.

...and yes, I also noticed the baseball diamond with some bleachers, porta potties and tents. The groundkeeper put patterns on the field here like other ballparks have patterned fields and there are many tents here like there are tents at many ballparks. My question is, are the porta-potties clean? Otherwise, what's the problem? The ballpark is still in the building process.
Last edited by Ken, Steelheads fan on Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: substituted the word "concourse" for the word "foundation"

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Post by Pounder » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:00 am

I've been paying attention to baseball attendance this year.

I've seen documents relay "comp" tickets... essentially giveaways. I've seen too many instances of consistent overcounts to believe that it's all paid.

Is that a problem? Not necessarily a big one. It depends on how a ballpark is funded and the team operated. Sponsors understand the subtleties of "truth in advertising" and thus likely set a lower bar than many would think. Government and "concerned interests" (those with "a say" if you will) are the wildcards.
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Post by wasteland » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:37 am

[quote=""Pounder""]I've been paying attention to baseball attendance this year.

I've seen documents relay "comp" tickets... essentially giveaways. I've seen too many instances of consistent overcounts to believe that it's all paid.

Is that a problem? Not necessarily a big one. It depends on how a ballpark is funded and the team operated. Sponsors understand the subtleties of "truth in advertising" and thus likely set a lower bar than many would think. Government and "concerned interests" (those with "a say" if you will) are the wildcards.[/quote]

Regardless, freebies are a good idea, when they used. Chances are the user pays $5 for parking, a $4 soda, and $15 foam finger. Thats more then pays for the ticket and then some. That said, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but at this level of indie ball, a couple thousand people in the stands all season means a happy front office and more then likely they'll be back next season. That pic that was posted in this thread looked like a nice turnout for a Monday night. I've seen some other pics of LC including opening night, and it looks like they have solid fan support. When they finally get that stadium, it can only help.

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Post by wasteland » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:44 am

[quote=""J.J. Smith""]I thought the Northern League had these high standards[/quote]

Well, at least the players get paid.

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Post by Pounder » Thu Jul 29, 2010 4:16 am

If people expect free tickets, they'll never pay the price to return. At some point, those foam fingers are reusable. Also, if they duck out after 6 innings to put Johnny to bed (and there's a lot of that), is the club really getting it back?

Not that your scenario couldn't happen. I'm just thinking the numbers actually gained aren't sustainable.

BTW, I looked at that facebook pic. There's plenty of standing room to attain 7,000 capacity. That structure is not as big as Reno, which claims about 9,200 capacity with 6,500 seats (Reno not only could fit more, they can make an event of it with their amenities). HOWEVER, if there's no debt involved, that place could outlast a lot of fancier parks.
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Actual attendance estimate for Lake County

Post by BaseballKid3 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:35 pm

Since I have been to several Lake County games I will give you actual attendance averages that I believe are pretty close to correct.

Remember this is in seat attendance not the "paid".

@ Carthage - 300 - The actual attendance for opening night was 996 in house. Several of those 15 nights had less than 250 in house.

@ Lake County Fairgrounds (as NLFan calls it) 4:45 starts - 1,100 - This is only because on opening day there they had just right around 2,900 (park holds just under 3,400 maybe more with a few extras recently brought in as in suites party areas - very rough estimate but could not have been much more.

@ Lake County Fairgrounds 7pm starts - likely average of about 1,600 but only 3 dates in the book


As for wastelands comment about players getting paid, yes they are but checks are being delayed. Last one by 2 or 3 days according to an intern.

As for the park itself, not terrible but you have nowhere to wash your hands all they have is hand sanitizer. Too many staff members standing around just watching the game. Promo girls are to busy texting and talking then getting the crowd into the game.

One bad thing, I had my 9yo daughter at a game at the new place and we went to the area that players go after the game to get autographs. Players dress in a double wide trailer, only have porta potties and portable showers which brought this problem when we were back there. Players going from dressing room to showers in only a towel and one player , a bigger guy with blonde hair, went from dressing area to showers with his towel in his hand. You can only imagine my surprise and dismay after that. I still don't know if my daughter saw it and don't want to know.

Oh last but not least being a season ticket holder and being promised invitations to ALL special events I was quite ticked to not get invited to the Kevin Costner light turning on thing. From the looks of other sites and blogs I am not the only person upset.

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Post by J.J. Smith » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:52 pm

Thanks for the report, BaseballKid3. Nice to get some first hand information as the numbers distributed by the team, and dutifully reported by the media, are next to worthless. I would be interested in hearing about actual attendance at the end of next week. By that time, the novelty will have started to wear off, and we'll see if people are really going to accept this stripped down park concept. I think it's going to be a tough sell.

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