GBL Future?

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TOROSFAN
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Post by TOROSFAN » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:35 pm

Sinsan...totally agree. I, like you have personal knowledge in this matter as I know several dogs in this fight. They have moved on and are still owed 3 checks but have found a better team and they are thankful to be out of that debacle...they'll never see the $$ and life goes on, but not under those horrible circumstances any more. Fight on Yuma and TJ and now St G....who's next to fall in the GBL?
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Post by OttawaBallFan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:25 am

Hey E-TownCaps, my thoughts, speaking as an Ottawa native.

If the GBL is really in that much trouble as I read on this board, I don't want the GBL to come here. There's enough pessimism in this town that baseball wouldn't work here that's the last thing we need is a badly managed league which sounds like it might fold soon.

To give you some history of baseball in Ottawa, the AAA Lynx left because of poor attendance. We had a Can-Am team in 2008 but the owner claimed bankruptcy while alienating fans. The league was ready to take over in 2009 (with a new team name thanks to shaninigans from the previous owner) but no owner for the Atlantic City franchise was found. Rather than having to pay the bills for two teams, which they couldn't afford, the league contracted to six teams. Some media here twisted things by saying we couldn't hold on to three teams (really one, the Lynx).

This year, we did have a semi-pro team and the owner talked about getting a GBL team. Attendance was good (2300), as good as the Can-Am team (2200) which is what can be expected in this town, but the attendance to a semi-pro team surprised even myself. If we do get a GBL team and the league folds, that'll be the excuse the city needs to tear town our beautiful stadium and build yet another big box store in its place, something I don't want.

Besides, I think a Can-Am team makes more sense for this town.

You talk about Winnipeg but they have a very successful Northern League team. Last I knew, Portland was in Oregon. No reason they can't form a league where teams are mostly Canadian however. You'd really have four teams in that league unless you can convince other cities to join. But Ottawa being so far away, I don't think is a viable option. Also, doesn't Portland have a minor league team?

For the remnants of a GBL to be successful, you'd need a few more teams, and not one two thousand miles away. And if the problems are because of league management, that has to change too.

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Post by TOROSFAN » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:33 am

As I mentioned earlier this year...Maui in trouble...are they the next casualty in the GBL? No attendance, 125 season tickets, travel $$. I knew that's why they didn't make the earlier trip and played MEGA home games in their own beds. Another GBL issue to salvage a team as they continue to NEVER learn about expansion and expenses. I hope Maui owner can survive...we'll see. This will be a VERY interesting playoffs with all the travel and the off season will be a revamping of all teams...

http://ocflyers.blogspot.com/?CFID=4615 ... N=93130312
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WallysWorld
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Post by WallysWorld » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:32 pm

If the GBL does under or the three Canadian teams leave the GBL, then they will either try to join the Northern League or just fold up house.

No prospect really of an all-Canadian league in my opinion as baseball is just not that popular up here.

But I see the GBL still being around next year with about 8 teams. I see Tucson, Yuma, Chico, Orange County and yes, even Maui returning with the three Canadian teams. Portland remains the big question mark.

Has anyone heard what's happening with the supposed Palm Spring expansion team?
Last edited by WallysWorld on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by OttawaBallFan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:11 pm

> baseball is just not that popular up here.

I beg to differ. Explain Quebec having best attendance in Can-Am, over 1000 more per game than next team. They are doing things right over there with good management.

As I recall, Winnipeg in the Northern always has done well. In fact, this year, they lead the league. Two of three Canadians teams in GBL last year above league average. This year, Calgary is a hair under (figures from Pointstreak). Even here in Ottawa, 2300 a game for a SEMI-PRO team.

So, if baseball is not popular in Canada, why so many teams doing better than their American counterparts?

Agree that Canadian teams will likely fold if the GBL folds. Not sure if the Northern will take some of them. I don't see Victoria joining that league and even Calgary and Edmonton are a stretch. The Northern has 3 teams in Illinois and is very centralized in that part of the country.

As for an all-canadian league, that was tried and botched in 2003 so I don't expect another go at it anytime soon, if ever.

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Post by hot_corner » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:20 pm

>So, if baseball is not popular in Canada, why so many teams doing better than their American counterparts?

The reason the Canadian teams draw relatively well compared to those in the states is that indy ball is all we've got up here. In the US the market is so saturated with all the affiliated minor leagues not to mention MLB itself, all of whom I'm assuming put on a better show than the GBL. Frankly if I had the choice I'd rather go see a good AA or AAA game filled with actual prospects, big league-rs on rehab stints, etc. We don't have that choice up here though so for the few true baseball fans it's either the GBL or stay home.

For anybody who thinks baseball is a real popular sport up here, try to have a conversation about baseball with your fields and count how long it lasts until it somehow gets turned into a hockey discussion - my bet is 5 minutes max.

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Post by OttawaBallFan » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:05 pm

> indy ball is all we've got up here.

True, and your saturation argument is valid as well. But it can't be the sole reason. There are markets not saturated by the minors which don't attract fans. Granted, there can be a million reasons, a major one in my mind having to do with marketing.

> try to have a conversation about baseball

I used to think the same way. But there are baseball fans here. And very knowledgeable too. I've even met a few who like me want nothing to do with hockey!

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Canadian League

Post by TOROSFAN » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:43 pm

[quote=""WallysWorld""]If the GBL does under or the three Canadian teams leave the GBL, then they will either try to join the Northern League or just fold up house.

No prospect really of an all-Canadian league in my opinion as baseball is just not that popular up here.

But I see the GBL still being around next year with about 8 teams. I see Tucson, Yuma, Chico, Orange County and yes, even Maui returning with the three Canadian teams. Portland remains the big question mark.

Has anyone heard what's happening with the supposed Palm Spring expansion team?[/quote]


Not a Canadian, but I think a 4th team in Canada would be very possible. If the 3 teams already avg over 2000, then baseball is popular...even moreso based on your countries love of Hockey...the sports are opposite seasons and not related to each other in terms of draw vs sport...the real baseball fans are growing in canada and I think one would be underestimating the popularity based on the attendace now. It may be the only way to save the league with 4 teams in North and 4 teams in South...

Each team makes 1 road trip series to play north and south...north plays each team 15 times south the same...north travels south early due to weather and vice versa in july aug.

South travels north to play 5 gms vs 4 teams- 20 games and north the same.
total games about 65-70 each. I think that would work, and save the GBL...or it will have to go to 6 teams like United league and top 4 to playoffs...

6 Teams: 3 Canada, Maui, Chico, and Tucson.

Don't think Yuma has a chance, or OC unless they draw people and OC and Yuma have never done that. Maui will only survive 1 more year...maybe?...unless they get another team to play on Oahu or Big island to create a rivalry fan base like canada and then you add Chico and Tucson.

But, Baseball is a true growing sport in Canada IMHO.
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Post by OttawaBallFan » Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:37 am

I know air travel is routine these days. But for an Ottawa team to travel across a minimum of 2 time zones for every road trip, I don't see it. Just doesn't seem to make sense. For the same reason for Victoria to be in the Northern League and traveling 2 time zones going east for every road trip.

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Post by DoyleG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:19 am

[quote=""TOROSFAN""]Not a Canadian, but I think a 4th team in Canada would be very possible. If the 3 teams already avg over 2000, then baseball is popular...even moreso based on your countries love of Hockey...the sports are opposite seasons and not related to each other in terms of draw vs sport...the real baseball fans are growing in canada and I think one would be underestimating the popularity based on the attendace now. It may be the only way to save the league with 4 teams in North and 4 teams in South...

Each team makes 1 road trip series to play north and south...north plays each team 15 times south the same...north travels south early due to weather and vice versa in july aug.

South travels north to play 5 gms vs 4 teams- 20 games and north the same.
total games about 65-70 each. I think that would work, and save the GBL...or it will have to go to 6 teams like United league and top 4 to playoffs...

6 Teams: 3 Canada, Maui, Chico, and Tucson.

Don't think Yuma has a chance, or OC unless they draw people and OC and Yuma have never done that. Maui will only survive 1 more year...maybe?...unless they get another team to play on Oahu or Big island to create a rivalry fan base like canada and then you add Chico and Tucson.

But, Baseball is a true growing sport in Canada IMHO.[/quote]

Actually, baseball been on a decline at all levels since the mid 90s even with the idea of a recent upswing. Much of the change has to do with the fact that minor league baseball left and that MLB has left Montreal and T.O. has seen its fortunes decline. GBL may seem to have the fans to support it, but it doesn't have the same footprint that was found in the minor league system (there used to be 4 minor league teams in Alberta).

The only true growing sports in Canada are soccer and basketball. They took off at the same time baseball started to go into a decline.

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