What is AAA?

[Pounder]

I'm calling into a sports talk show in Boise 15 years ago, something about if Boise could aspire to a "higher" league than the short-season Northwest League. Somehow, the call devolved to this:

Me: I hear that more players are skipping AAA and going straight to the majors.

"Mike": How many all-stars skipped AAA?

So, back in May, partly spurred by events in Portland, the following was the result:

http://obc.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/ ... /874104714

I know it may be less than representative research... but I also know that people don't go around saying that they were excited to see some second string scrub for the Reds back when he was in the minors.

My semi-informed conclusion: this notion of "the AAA market" is a trade-off. You might be on the cusp of the majors, but more and more, you're not getting more of the top prospects, the people likely to break out in the majors. For that matter, while AA is more prominent than it was 35 years ago, it's really not that prominent. If you want to see the best prospects, your best bet is to live in the boondocks of California or the Carolinas and watch high-A ball.

It's one thing to hear from Portlanders that the Beavers aren't the majors and the rosters rotated too much to latch on to anyone. Reading people from Nashville saying they had more continuity with their old Southern League team is what gets me. Listening to Oklahoma City beat writers yak that the Texas Rangers never sent their best prospects to Bricktown makes an impression.

Perhaps, perhaps, the majors need to concoct a way of bringing their best prospects to more people. Perhaps being a "AAA city" is becoming a drawback. Mind you, I'm more than aware that the "level" of one's team is seen by more people of an indicator of the status of their town... that's a tough nut to crack. Thing is, AAA isn't the majors, and AAA is becoming less of a marquee value. Does this mean anything? Eh?

[robster2001]

Here in Richmond, we dropped from AAA (in 200 8) to AA (this year).

I'm not sure if it's the year off fueling the enthusiasm, or aggressive marketing by the Flying Squirrels, or the fact that there hasn't been all that much roster turnover -- and what there has been was mostly injury-related -- but the Squirrels are outdrawing the last couple of years of the AAA Braves by a substantial margin. It's to the point that Richmond will probably be #2 of the 30 AA teams in attendance -- last year's Connecticut Defenders (the team that became the Squirrels) were in the bottom three, if not last.

The team isn't as competitive as we hoped it'd be, but it's been fun for the fans... and seeing one of "our" 40-man players called up this week to San Francisco actually helps, I think.

The problem in Portland is that dropping from AAA to AA is not an option. You'd either have to convince the California League to come to Oregon, drop to the Northwest or Pioneer, or pick up an independent team. For a city with major-league pretensions like Portland, I don't think any of those will fly.

Unless Portland suddenly decides to invest in a new AAA-capable ballpark, I think you may have seen the last of Organized Baseball there for a long, long time...

[GoCyclones!]

Good points, Robster. Poundz, I'm sorry about the loss of your team, but I disagree with some of your points. Whille players do seem to be getting better prepared at lower levels, AAA is still important. As far as roster turnover, that's just life in minor league ball. That's just the way it is. I saw the Connecticut Defenders in the playoffs last year. They had a great record but their ace, Bumgarner, the Giants called him up. It's that bittersweet feeling of seeing your guy getting called up, but seeing your team take a hit that is also part of life of the minors. There's a lot of things I love about it - the intimacy, charm, affordability, hustle, smaller egos - but they also come at a price and the the main goal is making the Major League team as good as it can be.

Regarding the issues you mentioned with other teams in Nashville and OKC, I heard a lot of excuses why the Defenders left Connecticut - The Giants wouldn't send their best players there or rehab guys there, while I believe it's a factor, it's only a small factor. Man, if people in a certain market are into baseball, it'll work. If not, it won't. Norwich wasn't a AA city first of all. I don't know how they survived that long. A new stadium is a big factor but all the other stuff not so much. Over here the Hudson Valley Renegades are a big draw. They are the SS-A team of... Tampa Bay. Do you think anyone in upstate NY has any love for Tampa Bay? No, but baseball works there.

Hey, this could be a good thing. Maybe Portland can now flirt with the A's or the Rays. I've been to games in Oakland and Sacramento, their AAA team, and Oakland only draws slightly better than Sac. They need to do something there.

Again, dude, I'm sorry about your team. We are so lucky here in the east coast that there a lot of teams and indy league teams. I'd be so bummed if there was nothing.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Where still on this triple-a means nothing post again pounder? Look I am sorry not enough people found it worth there while to save the Portland Beavers which I think is a disgrace you know I am on record about that. I hope you check out a Portland Beaver PCL game before they leave Portland because to me if your a sports fans in a city when a team is moving that is a part of you leaving.

I couldn't imagine the Buffalo Bisons IL leaving Buffalo I not embarrassed to say I would cry as a Buffalo sport fan. It would have that type of effect on me. All the memories with family and friends. The Bisons championships the great players that came through Buffalo. The diners with my family and friends at our Bisons stadium resturant watching the Bisons game from a window while celebrating a birthday I would cry very sad. Thank goodness Buffalo draws very well and fans care too much like me for that to ever happen in Buffalo.

I would feel apart of my past was dying apart of my soul rip out of me if the Buffalo Bisons left. It would very emotional thing. I would not be happy about it or indifferent. Not the Buffalo four super bowl losses in a row or the two stanley cup final losses would be as bad as losing a team that has been in a city for over 100 years like the Buffalo Bisons. When any team leaves weather it is the NFL Buffalo Bills, NHL Buffalo Sabres or IL Buffalo Bisons that have played in your city since childhood that is sad and a very emotional thing. Buffalo has had the Buffalo Bisons since 1877, the Buffalo Bills since 1960 and the Buffalo Sabres since 1970. I would feel like I let those fans before me down for letting it happen without trying to save them.

The Buffalo Sabres NHL team years ago had trouble because the owner from Adelphia John Rigas and his son went to jail and the team was in bankruptcy. But Buffalo had a SOS Buffalo Sabres. SOS standing for Save Our Sabres and the community fought and won and look at us today we sellout and have a season ticket waiting list.

I didn't see any save the Portland Beavers where is your Booster Club or don't you have one in Portland for the Beavers pounder. In Buffalo we have a Bisons Booster Club and hot stove meetings. Where is the fight from Portland it is very strange to me that is why I have followed the story. That would never happen in a city like Buffalo like Portland to be so indifferent not to care that a baseball team playing on and off for 100 years means nothing. That says more about Portland in my opinion then triple-a baseball pounder. Sorry but it is how I feel.

Your city saved a junior hockey team arena that to me should be where the new ball park went. The junior team could play at the Rose Garden with the Portland Trail Blazers. Memorial Coliseum should have come down in my opinion for the Portland Beavers new baseball park. But that is just me. And I am a hockey fan but I also see they can play in the Rose Garden. To have two arenas for a city the size of Portland isn't wise cost wise but again that is just me.

I think it is sad when a triple-a city for years just moves but it is more a reflection in my opinion on a individual community more then anything else. Pounder you mention prospects. Look at the Buffalo Bisons and the New York Mets. Buffalo Bisons put a ton of players that will be good everyday players for the New York Mets in the future. They didn't skip triple-a. Players like Ike Davis will be a star, Lucas Duda left fielder will be a star for the New York Mets down the road both major power hitters.

We also sent starting catcher Josh Thole to the New York Mets this year. 20 year old Ruben Tejada 2B/SS was sent to the New York Mets from Buffalo. There are so many pitchers I can't count. These aren't 4A guys like Mike Hessman who we also sent to the New York Mets these are young prospects. That I saw in Buffalo now in starting roles in New York down the stretch.

My advice pounder maybe the San Diego Padres didn't believe in triple-a it is a case by case with some MLB clubs. Or maybe the San Diego Padres didn't want to put young kids in a city like Portland where there so indifferent towards triple-a baseball with empty seats nightly. That isn't good for a young player to develop in my opinion.

Also just because Portland a bad minor league sports city in my opinion and is indifferent to minor league sports that doesn't mean every city is. I understand Portland thinks of itself as major league so does Buffalo. But the difference is Buffalo doesn't thumb its nose at minor league sports teams like Portland seems to do.

For whatever reason I don't live there so I don't know what is inside the everyday Portlanders head of why they reject minor league sports but not all major league cities do what Portland is doing.

Tonight Buffalo on a night when FBS football UB Bulls of the MAC had there home opener that I was at tonight. The Buffalo Bisons IL played there final home game of the season before over 15,000 going up against the UB Bulls and a Buffalo Bills NFL road preseaon game on tv locally in Buffalo. In good sports cities pounder triple-a baseball matters to fans like Buffalo.

That is what you are missing with this debate pounder and the guy from Richmond. Buffalo drew over 575,000 fans in 2010 and had a slight increase in ticket sales this year from last year in 2009 in a tough economy the Buffalo Bisons IL drew over 1/2 million fans that doesn't sound like no cares about triple-a baseball to me at all in places like Buffalo.

I feel horrible that my city got eliminated from IL playoff contention officially tonight it hurts. I realize not every city cares I will give you two that. But good sports cities fans care in my opinion. I grew up a Buffalo Bisons fan for over 30 years you just don't get it guys. You don't turn your favorite hometown team feelings off like a light switch. It doesn't work that way. Ask cities like Phoenix with the Phoenix Coyotes NHL struggles. Phoenix with alot of fans from other cities they just don't quit being Chicago Blackhawks fans because they live in Phoenix now. Internet and internet tv boardcasts there is no reason to switch team.

If Portland cared they would be angry what happen but other then a few not many care out there sadly. I feel for Portland Beavers on this board and other then you and one other guy no one said I can't believe the Portland Beavers are gone from Portland. I will feel for a city for there team if the interest is there from a city but if a city is indifferent and is practically driving the team to the airport to leave town then I guess it is for the best for Portland the people there have spoken.

But just because Portlanders seem to feel that way doesn't mean all cities do. Portland to me as a Buffalonian is a very strange city to not care that they are the largest city once the Portland Beaver PCL leave without organized baseball in the US that isn't something to be proud of I would embarrass if that was my city of Buffalo.

The guy from Richmond. The Richmond Braves moving was a joke in my opinion. No way should Richmond have lost triple-a baseball to Gwinnett which I think was a bad move for the IL look at there attendance it proves this. In the long run when the Gwinnett baseball stadium ages the attendance in Gwinnett I believe will get worse not better because that is a MLB market with the Atlanta Braves the Gwinnett Braves mean very little to the Atlanta suburb because they have major league baseball already.

As for the Double-A doing well that is because Richmond fans in my opinion missed baseball period. They have a trendy catchy nickname and some marketing but we will see over the long haul. Because Richmond I won't call a great sports market. Richmond isn't even at the level of a Norfolk in my opinion supporting the Tides IL and Admirals AHL. And no way is Richmond at the level of Buffalo. Income and money wise yes sports buying tickets and merchandise no. Richmond has the money but seems to not want to part with it for some reason. And again that is there cities choice. But that isn't a reflection of all triple-a baseball in my opinion.

Buffalo supports both majors, minors and college sports in town. So the wrap it up triple-a is fine it is a few cities that maybe just don't want minor league baseball or triple-a baseball and again that is ok. But don't ruin it for everyone else that likes triple-a baseball. IL baseball is strong and so is Buffalo Bisons IL triple-a baseball. It is called loyalty to a team and a brand and if some cities don't get that is there loss sadly but what can you do. In a city like Buffalo the Buffalo Bills, Sabres, Bisons, Bandits NLL and UB Bulls matter. Let's Go Buffalo

[Minor League Mania]

[quote=""Buffalo Super Fan""] The guy from Richmond. The Richmond Braves moving was a joke in my opinion. No way should Richmond have lost triple-a baseball to Gwinnett which I think was a bad move for the IL look at there attendance it proves this. In the long run when the Gwinnett baseball stadium ages the attendance in Gwinnett I believe will get worse not better because that is a MLB market with the Atlanta Braves the Gwinnett Braves mean very little to the Atlanta suburb because they have major league baseball already.[/quote]

I live in the greater atlanta area and I think the move was not to have large attendance as much as it was to be able to call players up at a moments notice and have them close by for rehabs. A lot of tems are putting thier affiliates close to them for this reason. Players can rehab for a day or two and drive back to thier house. Minor league players that just got called up are still living in Gwinnett and driving to Atlanta a short 30 minute trip. If Gwinnett is on the road or off the Single-A team Rome is only 1 hour drive away. The Braves organization will pickup the bill on any revenue lost because of attendence. As for the original question. Stars come out of AAA but Superstars will often come straight up from AA. Just my opiniom but I think AA is more of a hitters league and AAA a pitchers league.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

[quote=""Minor League Mania""]I live in the greater atlanta area and I think the move was not to have large attendance as much as it was to be able to call players up at a moments notice and have them close by for rehabs. A lot of tems are putting thier affiliates close to them for this reason. Players can rehab for a day or two and drive back to thier house. Minor league players that just got called up are still living in Gwinnett and driving to Atlanta a short 30 minute trip. If Gwinnett is on the road or off the Single-A team Rome is only 1 hour drive away. The Braves organization will pickup the bill on any revenue lost because of attendence. As for the original question. Stars come out of AAA but Superstars will often come straight up from AA. Just my opiniom but I think AA is more of a hitters league and AAA a pitchers league.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying but Gwinnett still needs to draw fans to survive long term. And I have a feeling attendance fell quicker then the Atlanta Braves thought with a new stadium in Gwinnett. The economy didn't help but how long is Atlanta going to want to fund a team so players can be close for callups.

The New York Mets make alot more money then the Atlanta Braves with there own SNY TV Network and a Buffalo Bisons IL team that draws with the New York Mets players only a one hour plane ride away no big deal. I understand that arrangement in Atlanta but I think it is flawed long term if the suburbean city of Gwinnett doesn't go to the games in any great numbers.

Atlanta would be better off selling the triple-a team and letting someone else individual run it. Orlando and Jacksonville in Florida would make great triple-a cities and are close to Atlanta in my opinion. We will see about Gwinnett but long term I think it fails in my opinion because the Atlanta Braves are there team not the Gwinnett Braves so triple-a baseball isn't anything special to get excited about like in a Buffalo or a Rochester where it is our only baseball team. Plus I wonder how long Charlotte Knights survive in Charlotte with there low attendance numbers in the IL. If Charlotte ever moves down the road out of Charlotte what effect with that have on Gwinnett if any who knows? Let's Go Buffalo

[Minor League Mania]

I think Atlanta can afford to pay Gwinnett breaking even for many years from now. They have a tv deal in place there plus draw bigger crowds on the weekend and when players rehab there. In terms of Major League money, the minor league parks is a very small percentage of revenue. Meaning if they only draw 2000 fan instead of 3500 in not near as big of deal as Atlanta expecting 40,000 and getting 20,000. Also it helps that the fans are able to keep up with upcoming players like never before. Seems like every person in the ballpark knew who Freddie Freeman was in his first at bat in the bigs. The thing that is tricky about minor league baseball is that it does not depend on the classification or even talent on a team. A lot of time it really just depends on the city itself. Gwinnett is new to baseball really is a growing Minor League city. The Gladiators draw well and Force are set to return soon. I dont think the G-Braves have anything to worry about. Also agree about orlando but Jacksonville already has a team they play in the AA southern league and a very good!

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Like I said minor league mania it will depends how long the Atlanta Braves NL will want to fund a triple-a team by themselves and the Gwinnett market will they go in big numbers like Lehigh Valley, Columbus or Buffalo. So far I am not impressed by the Gwinnett market for baseball. Will that change we will see but Lehigh Valley IronPigs IL came in around the same time as the Gwinnett Braves IL and are a much better IL triple-a market by far in my opinion. Gwinnett is suspect in my opinion and we will see if the Atlanta Braves will want to fund potential loses in the future for years small or not there still loses on the bottom line. Most owners don't like to lose money big or small amounts.

Most teams in triple-a are either privately owned by a private business person like the Buffalo Bisons II we have Bob Rich and the Rich family. In Rochester and Syracuse there community owned teams. Some are like the Atlanta/Gwinnett setup.

As a fan and if I could choose I would pick what the Rochester Red Wings and the Syracuse Chiefs have like the Green Bay Packers have community owned teams they most likely can never be moved inless the team is losing for years and years at the gate.

I don't like what happened to the Richmond Braves IL because they didn't deserve to lose there team drawing a little under 1/2 million for Eastern League baseball this year they belong back in triple-a IL but lost there team because of not paying for a new stadium that the Atlanta Braves wanted and got in Gwinnett.

I understand why Atlanta did it and it is there right because they own the Richmond Braves team. There a private business that can do whatever they want. I like Bob Rich he is a good care taker of the Buffalo Bisons II a great owner in my opinion. But as a Buffalo Bisons fans we could be possibly moved someday if the day ever came where the Buffalo Bisons II didn't make enough money to satisfy a private business person and his family desires anymore or if they wanted to just get out of the baseball business in general.

They can sell to any city they want that is my point and Buffalo can't do really anything to stop it. It isn't going to matter that I have been going to Buffalo Bisons II games since 1979 or that millions have gone for years that at the end of the day means a hill of beans if a owner can make more money some where else they can sell if they want too.

With community owned teams it is safer because the profits go back into the baseball team always. As a Buffalo Bisons fan I don't know where all the money is going who knows? Is it all going back ino Buffalo Bisons II baseball or only some of it. I have no idea with community owned teams I know where the profits are going every year at the stock or shareholders meeting.

I want to make it clear Bob Rich is a good owner and I believe he puts money into the ballpark with upgrades and doesn't ask the city for anything a very good owner in my opinion as a Buffalo Bisons fan. All I am saying is if I had to choose which ownership model is the safest from being moved from a fans prospective most likely ever it is the one Rochester and Syracuse has in my opinion.

The Buffalo Bisons I use to have that is the 1950's and 1960's then towards the mid 1960's Buffalo went away from community owned team to a private owned team ownership basically forced there way in promising to deliver big league baseball in the late 1960's to the city of Buffalo. It wasn't Bob Rich it was other Buffalo business people that were involved in Buffalo Bisons I from the 1960's. Anyway Buffalo Bison I lost 1969 NL expansion by one vote to San Diego and Montreal. Actually it was the Montreal Expos that the Buffalo Bisons I lost by one vote to from what I heard.

The private ownership of Buffalo Bisons I seeing the writing on the wall that Buffalo wasn't going to get major league expansion basically pulled the plug on the Buffalo Bisons I IL money funding the team yearly. Meaning the Buffalo Bisons I ownership group didn't do what Bob Rich and his family did which is to basically still own and run the Buffalo Bisons II after Buffalo lost the 1993 NL expansion to Denver and Miami.

Now that wasn't the only reason Buffalo lost the Buffalo Bisons I in 1970 to Winnipeg the Winnipeg Whips IL. We needed a new stadium in Buffalo and the times Buffalonians were living in at the time period with all the protesting of the late 1960's didn't help either and crowds droped off in Buffalo. My point if the Buffalo Bisons I were still community owned like Rochester and Syracuse during that time period. I think Buffalo could have hung on like they did.

The Buffalo community at that time didn't like not being community owned anymore there was a backlash because the private owners private business people with money and clout just basically took over with no real board vote yes or no to stop it. Basically it was rammed through that is my point from my understanding from reading articles over the years on the subject.

The Buffalo Bisons team today that Bob Rich owns is Buffalo Bisons II. Buffalo was without baseball from 1971-1978 and it should never have had happen in my opinion. And it wouldn't of in my opinion if the Buffalo Bisons I in the mid 1960's stayed community owned. So that is why I will always favor that set up because it works as long as you go to the games which we do in Buffalo. For cities like Buffalo community owned teams would be best for us fans to protect us against greed and bigger populations offering the private owners a deal they can't resist.

Buffalo had years of over a 1 million fans in the late 1980's early 1990's. In community owned ownership you can stock pile money reserves so when you have lean years because of the economy you can get through. The Buffalo Bisons II as a fan we have no gurantees because we are owned by a private businessman Bob Rich.

Now don't get me wrong the chances of the Buffalo Bisons II ever moving are slim but it could happen before a Rochester Red Wings or a Syracuse Chiefs because Bob Rich doesn't need any community ownerships board vote of approval if he gets a potential $50 million offer for the Buffalo Bisons II where triple-a teams are valued today at between $20 to $30 million the likelyhood is where potentially gone if Bob Rich and the Rich family no longer want to be in the baseball business that is my point.

The Buffalo Bisons II are never completely safe like a community owned step up in my opinion. What happen in Portland with the Portland Beavers as a baseball fan is a disgrace in my opinion. But the owner in Portland has every right to do what he did because he owns the Beavers PCL team as a private business man it was never Portland's to begin with it was Paulson's team and he can do whatever he wants no matter what a few Portland Beavers fans and Buffalo Super Fan from Buffalo thinks.

My opinion is even stronger for community owned ownership model today as the best to protect cities and there fans in all sports from this non sense from ever happening again. The city of Portland spent alot of money to fix up PGE Park the first time for the Portland Beavers PCL and Portland Timbers USL. Portland Timbers fans are happy I understand that they got MLS soccer.

But who watched out for the Portland Beavers PCL baseball fans in Portland and the Portland community taxpayer? And the money that the community invested the first time with the Portland Beavers and Portland Timbers with there fans and taxpayers thinking the teams are set there to play in Portland for years to come only to find out otherwise that was not the case? If I was a Portland Timbers MLS fan I wouldn't be so happy happy joy joy either as a tax payer you paid twice for a soccer team once with the first renovation of PGE Park for the Beavers and Timbers. And now a second time for just the Portland Timbers of MLS and the Portland Beavers PCL are being forced out or moved however you want to put it. Who watched out for the community of Portland sports interest. I think the Portland community is out of there mind.

Buffalo Bisons II fans would have to hope the Rich family would offer it to someone in the Buffalo community first if they ever wanted to sell but the Rich family don't have to that is my point. That is why as a Buffalo Bisons II fan I like the community ownership better. Buffalo is going to potential go through that sometime in the future with the Buffalo Bills NFL with Ralph Wilson who is 90 plus years old.

The Buffalo Bills NFL can survive like the Green Bay Packers NFL community owned team because we draw well but that is not allowed anymore by the NFL bylaws. Green Bay Packers are grandfathered and in my opinion are lucky. I wish the Buffalo Bills NFL and Buffalo Sabres NHL could be community owned for a city like my Buffalo it is the safest to protect a good sports market from greed or a basically a bigger market trying to take them away. Let's Go Buffalo

[Pounder]

Let me clarify something: this issue is, to me, 10% of the problem in Portland. The stadium was never really a ballpark, fans weren't showing (and if you cite me the attendance numbers in Portland, I'm not laughing at you, just at your faith in reported statistics), the mayor's had his blunders, the city council is afraid of overly tweaking the Trail Blazers, a couple architects think Memorial Coliseum is an architectural wonder, and a sizable chunk of the citizens of Portland now believe that professional sports are a money-laundering scheme for right-wing causes. Oh, the name Paulson goes through the ringer semi-regularly.

Most of all, Timbers 2011 already has made more money than the Beavers have made over at least the last two seasons, maybe three.

Thing is, in watching declining numbers with interesting exceptions, in watching trends spring up, I've come to the conclusion that this is a problem. One hunch: the days of "selling the sizzle" are ending. The baseball perhaps has to matter. Since AAA is the most subject to the notion of "the affiliate serves at the pleasure of the parent," it's right at the crux of this matter.

So, Cyclones, I'm not saying AAA is less important, I'm saying that it's less attractive to people who want a winner instead of a developer. OTOH, see how the Sky Sox have never really threatened to leave Colorado Springs, how Lehigh Valley is the top AAA draw this year, how Pawtucket is not far behind? The AAA affiliates closer to their parents are, more often than not, more stable. People with an interest in the parent are more keyed into development issues than others would appreciate. ML Mania is dead on here.

The higher profile players need to learn to travel, and MLB has trouble making stars out of players these days. That is where I believe the larger non-MLB cities need to be featured. That's where baseball needs more exposure, they need better baseball. I'm trying to improve the ball in Buffalo.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

[quote=""Pounder""]Let me clarify something: this issue is, to me, 10% of the problem in Portland. The stadium was never really a ballpark, fans weren't showing (and if you cite me the attendance numbers in Portland, I'm not laughing at you, just at your faith in reported statistics), the mayor's had his blunders, the city council is afraid of overly tweaking the Trail Blazers, a couple architects think Memorial Coliseum is an architectural wonder, and a sizable chunk of the citizens of Portland now believe that professional sports are a money-laundering scheme for right-wing causes. Oh, the name Paulson goes through the ringer semi-regularly.

Most of all, Timbers 2011 already has made more money than the Beavers have made over at least the last two seasons, maybe three.

Thing is, in watching declining numbers with interesting exceptions, in watching trends spring up, I've come to the conclusion that this is a problem. One hunch: the days of "selling the sizzle" are ending. The baseball perhaps has to matter. Since AAA is the most subject to the notion of "the affiliate serves at the pleasure of the parent," it's right at the crux of this matter.

So, Cyclones, I'm not saying AAA is less important, I'm saying that it's less attractive to people who want a winner instead of a developer. OTOH, see how the Sky Sox have never really threatened to leave Colorado Springs, how Lehigh Valley is the top AAA draw this year, how Pawtucket is not far behind? The AAA affiliates closer to their parents are, more often than not, more stable. People with an interest in the parent are more keyed into development issues than others would appreciate. ML Mania is dead on here.

The higher profile players need to learn to travel, and MLB has trouble making stars out of players these days. That is where I believe the larger non-MLB cities need to be featured. That's where baseball needs more exposure, they need better baseball. I'm trying to improve the ball in Buffalo.[/quote]

I understand what you are saying pounder I just feel really bad as a sports fan what went down in the city of Portland. It just didn't sit right with me that you guys basically paid twice for renovations at PGE Park who is protecting the Portland citizens and there fans?

I am sensitive to this because I don't like that owners can hold cities teams hostage and the fan is left holding the bag in the end. I am for reasonable taxpayer money but for that I expect the team to deliever the team for the number of years in the lease.

Not trying to break them with a loophole. Like the Bills Toronto series. The Buffalo Bills had to get promission for the county of Erie and the state of New York to allow them to play games in Toronto because without the promission it would be breaking there lease. They got the promission but what choice did we really have. See that is the thing the Buffalo Bills have Buffalo over a barrel if we say no you can't play a game or two in Toronto they could be mad and not even negotiate a new lease for the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo in the future after 2013 see what I mean.

The city of Buffalo is being held hostage with the Buffalo Bills. Our lease is up in 2013 that is the type of non sense that has to stop a lease really means nothing anymore in any sport. And that I have a problem with. Let's Go Buffalo