Las Vegas 51s relocating?

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DoyleG
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Post by DoyleG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:08 am

[quote=""Buffalo Super Fan""]
I question the PCL commissioner that in my opinion is protecting a failing Las Vegas 51's team atleast in the newspapers he was that I think should be moved to Edmonton the travel excuse is nonsense in my opinion. You don't keep a franchise in a place because of travel when not to many in the city care about the team. Las Vegas is in my opinion embarrassing themselves in the PCL. The PCL has some problems in my opinion is not just travel but also the picking of some of what I call subspect sports towns like Las Vegas as a example. In my opinion go back to places like Honolulu, Hawaii, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary and I will add Winnipeg where in the summer your the biggest game in town and there is no oh I don't want go it is to hot or it is to far away to drive to the stadium etc. If PCL fans don't support there team in there town move it and enough with the excuses in my opinion. Ottawa embarrassed themselves with there attendance and the IL took care of buisiness and moved the team to Lehigh Valley and it worked out great in my opinion.
[/quote]

Edmonton is done for the PCL. The problem wasn't that travel but the fact that the Trappers were always the last team to get an affiliate and that turned off fans in the city very much. The stadium also requires a great deal of money to be re-developed for what is needed in AAA today. That's not going to happen since Katz and the City are jousting over the Oilers new downtown home. Since his 'announcement', the PCL has fallen off the radar again in Edmonton.

The AAA C's left Vancouver because the city was unwilling to build them a stadium that would support their long-terms needs. NIMBISM played a big role since groups fought to prevent a stadium from being built. Nothing has changed since then to give them a change of heart.

Calgary needs a new stadium, but there is no interest in building one.

No talk in Winnipeg about the PCL for the foreseeable future.

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Post by Buffalo Super Fan » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:41 am

[quote=""DoyleG""]Edmonton is done for the PCL. The problem wasn't that travel but the fact that the Trappers were always the last team to get an affiliate and that turned off fans in the city very much. The stadium also requires a great deal of money to be re-developed for what is needed in AAA today. That's not going to happen since Katz and the City are jousting over the Oilers new downtown home. Since his 'announcement', the PCL has fallen off the radar again in Edmonton.

The AAA C's left Vancouver because the city was unwilling to build them a stadium that would support their long-terms needs. NIMBISM played a big role since groups fought to prevent a stadium from being built. Nothing has changed since then to give them a change of heart.

Calgary needs a new stadium, but there is no interest in building one.

No talk in Winnipeg about the PCL for the foreseeable future.[/quote]

Thank you for the information DoyleG I was just thinking all those cities are big enough population wise for triple-a PCL baseball and would make a nice division all together for the PCL in the future. Let's Go Buffalo
The above post is in my opinion and I have no proof or link. I am just a Buffalo sports fan.

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Post by logoguru » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:08 pm

That wasn't my announcement or anything...it's what the commissioner has said in the past.

We don't go to games to see an affiliate, we go to games to watch baseball. In this case the Blue Jays that no one cares about, yet attendance is fine. The ONLY thing you can say that is wrong with Vegas is the facilities, which is why the Dodgers pulled out. There will ALWAYS be a pairing of a desperate franchise and Vegas until Vegas builds a new park (...possibly in Henderson.)

Stop hating on Vegas. You must be very jealous living in Buffalo, but winter is coming so you can bundle up and get cabin fever and root for your hapless Bills! Good luck! To quote Willis McGahee - "There aint nothing to do in Buffalo."
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Post by Buffalo Super Fan » Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:57 am

[quote=""logoguru""]That wasn't my announcement or anything...it's what the commissioner has said in the past.

We don't go to games to see an affiliate, we go to games to watch baseball. In this case the Blue Jays that no one cares about, yet attendance is fine. The ONLY thing you can say that is wrong with Vegas is the facilities, which is why the Dodgers pulled out. There will ALWAYS be a pairing of a desperate franchise and Vegas until Vegas builds a new park (...possibly in Henderson.)

Stop hating on Vegas. You must be very jealous living in Buffalo, but winter is coming so you can bundle up and get cabin fever and root for your hapless Bills! Good luck! To quote Willis McGahee - "There aint nothing to do in Buffalo."[/quote]

First attendance isn't fine for the Las Vegas 51's. The Las Vegas 51's would have been last in all of the PCL if it wasn't for the lame duck moving Portland Beavers so I disagree with that. The Buffalo Bisons drew almost double what the Las Vegas 51's drew and Buffalo was only 5th in attendance in the IL. Buffalo Bisons attendance went up slightly. But Las Vegas if your fans think attendance isn't problem wow add that to a problem for the Las Vegas 51's to. Attendance is a problem or they wouldn't be starting the moving van. Write pounder in Portland his Portland Beavers can pick up the Las Vegas 51's both cities are embarrassment with PCL attendance. If it was me I contract both PCL franchise for having baseball fans that don't get it. The owner is in it to make money they don't bring up moving inless the Wolf is at the door think about? Both Portland bottom of the PCL in attendance is moving and Las Vegas second from the bottom is talking about moving everything isn't fine. Am I on candid camera?

No one is hating on Las Vegas or is jealous I lived in Las Vegas and left because I found Buffalo better the place I left even with the winters. Again just my opinion. Buffalo offers a better quality of life for me and I think if alot of people took a trip to Buffalo like most have to Las Vegas for a vacation in our Buffalo summers they might find that out. But Buffalo is not a cheap place to live in and do business in with New York State taxes so alot young people and business don't stay or choose Buffalo to work in. Just saying why Buffalo hasn't grown it has little to do with the weather believe me it is the high taxes of New York state compared to the rest of the country.

New York City can get away with that because there New York City with Wall Street etc it is New York City what else do I have to say and believe me it is cold in New York City. You think Buffalo invented cold please? Why do you think Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse to name a few in New York state people are leaving because of jobs leaving because of high taxes. Minnesota is cold like Buffalo so is Michigan you get the point.

Las Vegas I wish well and I am not going to go into the gutter with mudd slinging like you are about Buffalo logoguru about Las Vegas. I understand and respect your point of view I just don't agree with it but that is ok you have a right to your opinion just like I do. I don't like the word hate and never use it ever when talking. It is a awful word that gets used to much today by people in society sadly in my opinion. If we spend more time in talking and understanding each others differences without means words we would be better off as a society in my opinion.

Second my brother lives still in Las Vegas and I once lived in Las Vegas so again not jealous. I could move there anytime I want my apartment would be half the price I pay in Buffalo but I choose Buffalo for the quality of life and sense of community that Las Vegas does not offer yet in my opinion. That also I feel has a effect on sports in Las Vegas there is no sense of community pride like Buffalo to rally behind something in your hometown of Las Vegas in my opinion. I actually wish the city of Las Vegas well because I did once live there. But pro sports wise the city of Las Vegas is a joke and doesn't get it in my opinion. A little over 9,100 for the UFL Football Champion Las Vegas Locos opener last week. I am very concern Las Vegas isn't even going to hang onto even the UFL Las Vegas Locos which is sad in my opinion.

I feel bad for the few good sports fans of Las Vegas that I am sure wish there was more of themselves that go to games in person. They have a UFL champion and for the most part Las Vegas fans there aren't that interested.

Because Las Vegas simply isn't a good sports town in my opinion yet. How does Las Vegas change that? In my opinion one time. Time helps because population will grow there in my opinion but it might be longer then some sports fans think like 20 years between 2025 and 2030 you might be looking at. Two the local community making the investment in stadium and arenas the local casinos aren't going to do it for Las Vegas the community needs to understand if they want pro sports they have to make the investment in my opinion. You have to pay to play that is just the way it is. Casinos aren't paying for something that competes with what they are selling entertainment and gambling just not going to happen ever in my opinion. I think Las Vegas has sports pontential but that is all it is so far potential?

The locals in Las Vegas need to wake up or they may not even have minor league sports someday if fans there don't start going to games in my opinion. Sports teams are in business for the most part to make a profit not lose money. Just that Las Vegas 51's even were mentioned about moving should be a wake up call for that city in my opinion. P.S. I use to live in Henderson that is where my old apartment was logoguru that would be a better place I agree then where Las Vegas mayor Oscar Goodman wants to build a new arena in downtown he has to be kidding but sadly he isn't the Phoenix Coyotes NHL Glendale Arena waiting to happen if Las Vegas builds a new arena in downtown Las Vegas in my opinion because of the traffic. Let's Go Buffalo
Last edited by Buffalo Super Fan on Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:32 am, edited 8 times in total.
The above post is in my opinion and I have no proof or link. I am just a Buffalo sports fan.

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Post by logoguru » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:28 pm

I guess what's really at play here is the simple fact that Las Vegas is a major league city and its residence only want the best.

Where is the PAC10(12) Championship going to be held?
Where is the WCC basketball tournament held?
Where is the MWC basketball tournament held?
An NBA All Star game without an NBA team?

I could go on. Its only a matter of time before we get an MLB, NBA or NHL team and people will wait out these lower leagues for a big league experience. Minor league attendance is not attached to how attractive major leagues view a city. Actually, there is a stigma attached to attending 51's games because some believe that if minor league baseball is successful then Las Vegas will be viewed as a minor league town and never be given the chance it deserves with major leagues.

I hope this clears things up, especially the cities view on MINOR league sports. I attend because I like them, but as a city its major league or nothing.
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Post by Sam Hill » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:54 am

Well, good luck with that. Don't hold your breath.
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Post by skippy » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:06 am

Reno is now receiving one million dollars a year to subsidize their lease due to development in the area stalling. That's one way to not endear yourselves to taxpayers.

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Post by Buffalo Super Fan » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:44 am

Pounder I never thought I admit this but I think you might be right about triple-a expecially in the west with the PCL. Cities shouldn't have to pay $1 million dollars a year to subsidize a minor league baseball team. That tells me one of two things either one the city the minor league team is in doesn't want it or isn't interested so the league shouldn't be there period?

Or two cost in minor league baseball on the triple-a level have grown out of hand for markets in the PCL? My Buffalo doesn't pay anything to subsidize a minor league baseball team it is called showing up nightly, caring with eyes on tv set for sponsors, going to games and buying merchandise to make the private business person rich. What kind of numbers for merchandise sales wise do some of these sorry cities have in the PCL if you need $1 million dollars a year like Reno?

No way should that be happening in my opinion. What about the clown owners of some of these PCL team? Do they know you need to make a effort with keeping it fresh for the fans? Buffalo changes jersey's, hats almost yearly with new thirds or new alternate it is called making money as a business on your own. Do these teams have booster clubs for the local teams with annual meetings? What about hot stove get togethers like Buffalo has do the PCL teams do that? What about rivialries for PCL teams?

Buffalo in the IL has Thruway Cup standings kept on our Buffalo Bisons website with standings for how we do against Syracuse and Rochester? A Thruway Cup trophy is award to the winning city. A city keeps the cup for one year if Buffalo, Syracuse or Rochester win the Thruway Cup for three years in a row that cup is retired and is allowed to be kept for good by the winning city. So then a new cup is made to start all over with Thruway Cup play again. All three cities fans go back and forth watching each others games on the road Rochester is 1 1/2 hours from Buffalo and Syracuse is 3 hours from Buffalo.

I have been going to Syracuse and Rochester for games with my Buffalo Bisons for years. And I don't like Syracuse Chiefs and Rochester Red Wings and want to beat them yearly even if were in last place in the IL like in 2009 beating Syracuse and Rochester makes my season. It called rivalries yes they have rivialries in the IL with triple-a baseball teams. I really wish PCL fans lived in cities like Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse where triple-a baseball is a bigger deal.

The games mean something for decades what is matter with your fans out there in the PCL? If these cities the PCL are in suck that bad to need $1 million dollars a year contract them already and move on in my opinion. You say you can't do that what about MLB teams needing a triple-a PDC. My idea differs from pounder but on the same line of thinking to make triple-a better in the cities that support triple-a baseball like my city of Buffalo. Have 15 triple-a cities PDC in the IL for the 30 MLB teams.

Contract the whole PCL because it sounds a mess to me and have two PDC assigned MLB teams to triple-a baseball teams this will also save on travel and player costs because cost are being split in half on players. This will hurt the 4A players but give the triple-a teams like my Buffalo more prospects and a better product. Triple-a roster would be expanded in triple-a to 30 players so that protects against triple-a teams benches being shorthanded from callups would be a thing of the past. Enough is enough that is strange triple-a baseball teams don't need to be subsidize in my opinion admit the city is a failed city and move on.

PCL team fans crying that is unfair blame your individual cities fans for not showing up and not buying merchandise? This is a business somethings that go on with hand outs from cities shock me. The cities can't afford this nonsense in the economic times we live in today some PCL teams are out of hand $1 million dollars a year in Reno is silly in my opinion. I feel sorry for the non baseball fans in these cities having to pay that tax wise for a cities council fantasy and dreams. Some dreams are best left to the back burner if you know what I mean.

Not everyone can be like Buffalo it is in triple-a baseball because we have been for 125 years it is ingrained in our cultural heritage in Buffalo. Buffalo follows sports teams with the seasons because that is the way it is. It is a way of life for our citizens a sense of community pride spring/summer Bisons IL baseball season, fall/winter Bills NFL football season and Sabres NHL hockey season. I am excited for Buffalo Bills game like I am every week and were 0-3 just cutting our starting quarterback Trent Edwards after 3 games 2 as a starter and I can't wait till sunday because I am a Buffalo Bills fan. I said I wanted to get a new Buffalo Sabres third jersey that came out last week. I am happy to report I bought a Ryan Miller new third Buffalo Sabres jersey over the weekend. My Buffalo Sabres look good this year were 2-1 in preseason and look really good so far.

Again something is wrong with some of these cities that don't go to games it should be like the sun rising in the morning sunday game time get fired up the New York Jets are coming to town etc. Not I don't want to go or I am not interest because of the record or the beach etc what are you strange if your a sports fan? You should be excited for game day no matter what you have football, baseball and hockey in your town your a Buffalonian have some community pride. That is how it is in Buffalo.

Shameful if you ask me from some of these PCL teams where is the community pride stand point to me some of these PCL teams cities are embarrassing and I don't get it? And I don't want to get it strange in my opinion and I hope Buffalo never gets like that ever. Pounder your right to a degree I just wish some of the PCL fans could see the east and midwest where IL teams are successful. You don't need subsidize teams it is called going to the games and get excited about something PCL fans.

A new park like Reno should be drawing 1 million fans plus a year like Buffalo when we opened a new baseball park in 1988. We drew 1 million plus fans for years when the stadium newness was in affect. Also I question like I said pounder this small stadium jazz. I am very much against band box stadiums. Then the stadium is limited to only baseball bad in my opinion one. And two look at Buffalo one of the biggest triple-a stadiums today 18,025 in all of triple-a baseball now with Portland Beavers gone and the Omaha Royals leaving Johnny Rosenblatt Stadium for a smaller new stadium in 2011. Big stadiums are good because you have a bad season with bad april and may with rainouts you make up for those loses with a bigger stadium in my opinion.

Buffalo makes up for that with a few 17,000 to 18,000 day crowds during the better weather. More fans in a huge stadium equals more potential food, beer and sodas you sell for the owner. Also what kind of business deals are some of these PCL teams are they making maybe there not getting enough from the local sponsors if that is the case start the moving van in my opinion because it is over.

This simple economics tiny stadium with higher ticket prices equals out pricing some of your fans and them in turn not going to the games with you as a owner stuck with a loss looking for a taxpayer handout. Bob Rich knows what he is doing some of these owners in the PCL don't know what there doing and need to get out of the triple-a baseball business in my opinion or call Bob Rich for advice. Bob Rich is using are baseball stadium for conference centers in the off season he just completed by putting two luxuary boxes together and extending them out which he paid for himself. Pure genius if you ask me and as a Buffalo Bisons IL baseball fan I don't have to worry about the Buffalo Bisons ever losing money because the baseball team is making Coke Cola Field work all year long. Bob Rich and the Rich family is the king of minor league baseball and a trail blazers maybe some of these cities should call them in my opinion.

Like I said with a big stadium then you can have more events that are non baseball like Buffalo does with Coke Cola Field. We have concerts, pro wrestling, the Buffalo Wing Festival and now business conferences in the Buffalo Bisons new state of the art conference center for businesses to name a few things at Coke Cola Field. The Buffalo Bisons are putting a whole new field in that the owner is paying for himself like it should be. I don't know what is going on in the west with the PCL but your doing it all wrong in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo
Last edited by Buffalo Super Fan on Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:20 am, edited 6 times in total.
The above post is in my opinion and I have no proof or link. I am just a Buffalo sports fan.

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Post by Pounder » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:06 am

The comment about the subsidy is mostly misread.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20100927/NEW ... in-subsidy

The subsidy has to do with the lack of investment in the surrounding property, not the ballpark itself.

That's a form of a funding scheme used in a lot of places trying to build ballparks... and one of the more questionable ones at that.
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Post by Buffalo Super Fan » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:51 am

[quote=""Pounder""]The comment about the subsidy is mostly misread.

http://www.rgj.com/article/20100927/NEW ... in-subsidy

The subsidy has to do with the lack of investment in the surrounding property, not the ballpark itself.

That's a form of a funding scheme used in a lot of places trying to build ballparks... and one of the more questionable ones at that.[/quote]

Thank you for the information on that pounder. Let's Go Buffalo
The above post is in my opinion and I have no proof or link. I am just a Buffalo sports fan.

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