Not grave concern. Insolvency? THAT is going to take more proof.
Memphis is known. They're in forbearance to the bank right now, 90% of their stadium was funded from private bonds, so the city of Memphis has less incentive to throw them a lifeline.
The Grizzlies have Fresno over a barrel. They're getting $700K in relief this year. Since it's the city on the hook for Chukchansi, I think that problem is solvable.
Portland- no willing city partner. The question is if someone buys the Beavers. Insolvent? There's a bigger check-writer backing this up.
Omaha? They're getting a new ballpark next year. The location may beg for long-term issues, otherwise I need to see more proof with this.
Las Vegas? I can see that. However, proof required.
New Orleans? I'm not sure I'm buying this. Again, more proof.
Oklahoma City? If the sale goes through, I'm very curious of the purchase price. Bricktown's paid for, by my understanding. If they're insolvent, then geography isn't the league's worst problem.
One thing noticed: none of these teams are within 100 miles of their parent. The fact that Tacoma and Colorado Springs are not on this list either makes me suspicious of Skippy...
...or tells me that there's a possible trend that becomes official (if technically so) if the San Diego Padres buy the Beavers and arrange a San Diego County home. I suspect many MLB owners are starting to think differently about how to manage their farms. I think, long term, AAA might be less a status issue for next-tier cities and more a "reserve team" within close proximity of the parent. It potentially changes the business in some profound ways.[/quote]
Pounder I don't know about the less a status issue for next-tier cities. I think the problem is one the PCL is to spread out for travel cost. And two I question some of these cities the PCL is in. Las Vegas sorry horrible sports city. Even if they got a new stadium I question if there is enough of a interest there to begin with in a perfect situation.
Portland alot of teams minor league or minor pro sports teams have passed through Portland failing in the past 10 years. Again the city of Portland I wonder about outside major league sports like the NBA Blazers and MLS Timbers other then those two majors I wonder about Portland for anything else.
The answer for triple-a I believe is relignment. And I feel putting more of the triple-a teams in the east where triple-a baseball is a big deal and teams are profitable might solve some of the problems that are just in the PCL. The IL is strong and profitable. Remember too some of these issues in my opinion is that cities like Las Vegas that get hot. Your not going to sit in 100 degree heat for triple-a sports.
In the east the summers are great to be outside. This is only my opinion but triple-a baseball would be better off moving teams back to cooler summer weather places like Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and I would try Winnipeg replacing the independent Winnipeg Goldeyes for the PCL.
Also in the east I would look at Montreal again as a triple-a city in the IL. Also Jacksonville, Florida is big enough to host a triple-a franchise in the IL. There is nothing wrong with triple-a baseball this has alot to do with some of these failing cities are dud sports cities in my opinion Fresno and Memphis. Memphis is a college town and even the Memphis Grizzlies NBA are having problems. It is time to move on if said city doesn't appreciate there triple-a franchise.
If I was San Diego forget San Diego for there triple-a franchise try Honolulu, Hawaii again like the successful Hawaii Islanders PCL of the 1960's and 1970's. Aloha Stadium is fine for triple-a baseball and I am sure the fans of Hawaii would be more appreciative for having a second chance at triple-a baseball.
If cities are going to thumb there nose at triple-a baseball time to move the team. There is nothing wrong with minor league baseball it is the cities in my opinion. If said city doesn't support there team time to move them in my opinion. Let's Go Buffalo
I question the PCL commissioner that in my opinion is protecting a failing Las Vegas 51's team atleast in the newspapers he was that I think should be moved to Edmonton the travel excuse is nonsense in my opinion. You don't keep a franchise in a place because of travel when not to many in the city care about the team. Las Vegas is in my opinion embarrassing themselves in the PCL. The PCL has some problems in my opinion is not just travel but also the picking of some of what I call subspect sports towns like Las Vegas as a example. In my opinion go back to places like Honolulu, Hawaii, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary and I will add Winnipeg where in the summer your the biggest game in town and there is no oh I don't want go it is to hot or it is to far away to drive to the stadium etc. If PCL fans don't support there team in there town move it and enough with the excuses in my opinion. Ottawa embarrassed themselves with there attendance and the IL took care of buisiness and moved the team to Lehigh Valley and it worked out great in my opinion.
I question weather triple-a PCL baseball will work in San Diego with the San Diego Padres NL team there. If Gwinnett in the surburbs of Atlanta is any indication it won't work in my opinion. Atlanta Braves in my opinion should have never moved there triple-a IL team from Richmond, Virginia to Gwinnett, Georgia. Just because a area is big doesn't mean it will work in my opinion. In my opinion troubled franchises in the IL are three teams two of them have stadium issues Scranton-WB they average 4,500, Charlotte they average 4,100 and Gwinnett they average per game 4,800 no stadium issues just a Atlanta Braves market. In my opinion the IL should have never allowed the Atlanta Braves to move that team because Richmond, Virginia wasn't fast enough with getting a new stadium. If it was me I would trade Richmond's double-a team to Gwinnett for Gwinnett's triple-a team going back to Richmond.
As for Charlotte I question weather even with a new stadium weather this city is interested in triple-a baseball. Again if it was me move Charlotte to Montreal and Charlotte can wait for the MLB baseball team that city seems to want in my opinion. Montreal would make a good triple-a city for the IL in my opinion. Bring back the old Montreal Royals IL team before the Montreal Expos NL the Royals were a IL team with Jackie Robinson.
San Diego fans are Padres fans there not going to most likely switch there loyalities to San Diego PCL whatever nickname in my opinion. I understand the thought process get families to come for cheaper minor league baseball compared to the more expensive San Diego Padres NL. But triple-a baseball isn't single-a baseball you need to be able to draw fans. 2,000 to 2,500 a night in triple-a isn't going to get it done or be acceptable like a single-a franchise in my opinion.
This to me putting PCL back in San Diego has failure written all over it in my opinion. A new stadium won't help either in my opinion ask the Gwinnett Braves? My Buffalo Bisons IL today on a week day afternoon game drew over 11,000 and is averaging over 7,500 a game no way I see San Diego doing that inless the San Diego Padres move which they aren't going to. This isn't 1960's San Diego before the National League expanded when the PCL was big in San Diego there in my opinion. The PCL is better off in Honolulu, Hawaii in my opinion where there the big sporting event in town for the summer. Like my Buffalo where the Buffalo Bisons IL are the big sporting event in town for the summer. Let's Go Buffalo
You are probably right...what LV needs Is a Strong Independent team to play at their field when they are on the road. They would be supported and it would be a very good marriage...independent team could be from several different leagues.
My Buffalo Bisons IL here in Buffalo, New York drew over 575,000 fans and we couldn't go independant in triple-a IL even if we wanted to we would lose money in my opinion paying out all the high salaries today. The Buffalo Bisons were once independant years ago in the 1930's and through the 1960's we were still paying for some of our own players in Buffalo but that was from a different era when players didn't make alot of money before free agency.
I will give you a idea what were talking about all time active minor league homerun king Mike Hessman played for the Buffalo Bisons this year before getting recalled to the majors with the New York Mets. He was making to play triple-a IL baseball $95,000 a year. Las Vegas couldn't pay a 23 man roster even making half that salary with the low attendance they get in my opinion.
Even if Las Vegas went out of affliate organized baseball to the GBL they wouldn't make it in my opinion. The fan base isn't there to pay there own players. They need a PDC major league affliate even more so then Buffalo because they don't draw in my opinion. A team like the Long Island Ducks of the Atlantic League draw fans consistantly in a major league huge city like New York. Las Vegas isn't that. The advistising dollars aren't there in my opinion in Las Vegas like a Long Island with the huge New York City to draw sponsors and advistisement revenue from.
Outside the stripe of casinos what does Las Vegas produce or have there is a reason why Las Vegas is struggling right now with alot of homes for sale because there are no jobs with people and companies cutting back on trips to Las Vegas and the hotels suffer and then they cut back on staff at the hotels because the money isn't there like before the recession.
See there isn't enough Crabby Joe's Crabshack and Farmer John Markets to survive in my opinion in Las Vegas for independant baseball. So Las Vegas needs a MLB PDC bad at all times in my opinion. If it was me if the city refuses to build the Las Vegas 51's a decent stadium in the next 3 to 5 years then move them. Because the stadium out there looks pretty bad to me in my opinion they need a new stadium to survive.
Forget the fantasy of major league sports for Las Vegas they should worry about keeping what they have in my opinion the Las Vegas 51's PCL, Las Vegas Locos UFL and Las Vegas Wranglers ECHL. Let's Go Buffalo
Another open air minor league baseball stadium in Las Vegas in my opinion will have some of the same problems coming up after the newness wears off in a year or too. Heat in the summer in Las Vegas is a factor with outdoor sports attendance in my opinion in the desert cities like Phoenix and Las Vegas that is why both the Arizona Diamondbacks NL and Arizona Cardinals NFL are both in dome stadiums in my opinion.
Now the question is how do you pay for it and make it worth while for the community of Las Vegas. I think that is the problem a stadium like that cost alot of money. You need a dome stadium in Las Vegas in my opinion because with that heat in the summer time your just not going to sweat out there to watch a PCL triple-a baseball game. Maybe the Las Vegas 51's and UNLV football could get together because the UNLV football program in my opinion has some of the same problems in my opinion not many are going to sit in 95 and 100 degree heat in Las Vegas no happening in any great numbers in my opinion.
Maybe with those two involved and using it as a Las Vegas convention type facility till the majors come they can make it work out there in Las Vegas? As for the population quadrupling yes and my brother and his family were part of that quadrupling but the problem is the people are from all over the US.
Most have loyalties to there own teams already. My brothers family is loyal to Buffalo teams. A guy from Chicago is loyal to Chicago teams and there major league teams. Most aren't going to switch loyalies for attending a minor league team. Major league maybe the people from other areas will attend but still it will be like if Las Vegas got NHL hockey for my brother when the Buffalo Sabres NHL come to play the Las Vegas whatevers in the NHL he will go.
See that is the problem to why Las Vegas hasn't seen attendance go up with more with quadrupling there population. When I lived out there in Las Vegas briefly I was still very loyal to Buffalo sports teams. Would major league teams help me attend yes but still Las Vegas major league team would be number two behind my home town teams were I grew up and was born Buffalo.
Many cities fans in Las Vegas, Phoenix and Sun Belt cities have that same problem. You don't give up your teams like that. If anything when you live in another area from where you grew up you hold onto some of the stuff like sports teams a little bit more I found from personal experience you take that with you like a family picture or a chair that you liked from your old home.
It is a part of who you are and memories basically roots. Can Las Vegas support major league maybe but the team will have to go the extra mile for there new fans. It won't be open the arena/stadium and give us your money like a Buffalo or a Chicago as example in my opinion.
Because you didn't grow up with this new major league team so if they do very little it is easy to say goodbye I am done with that. It isn't something you went to with your dad and family members where you have nice memories. Can the new Las Vegas team get that overtime yes but figure two decades before that happens in my opinion.
The day Las Vegas gets a major league team figure a 5 year old attends with his dad and family give it 20 years so when the 5 year old is 25 years old done with college in the finacial position to buy tickets to the Las Vegas major league team because the 25 year old that went when he was 5 years old to the Las Vegas major league team will have nice memories of going with dad and his family. That is just my two cents on major league sports in places like Las Vegas potentially it will take alot of time in my opinion not a quick buck type of thing. Let's Go Buffalo
In Las Vegas they could get NCAA basketball tournment games and final four they have the hotel space it requires, boxing and a number of things like concert etc till the major league baseball came. Outdoor stadiums won't work in Las Vegas long term even Phoenix realized that and it would be just throwing your money out the window in my opinion. Las Vegas fans aren't going to go out in 95 degree heat in the summer at night. When I live there I didn't even see one Las Vegas 51's game and I am a baseball fan that attends 30 plus Buffalo Bisons IL games regular the heat there is unbearable to sit outside in the summer in Las Vegas.
I am not risking my life with dehydration for the Las Vegas 51's PCL baseball and I am sure I wasn't the only one that thought like that in Las Vegas. Inless they get some type of domed air condition stadium bye bye Las Vegas 51's or at best what they have now not many fans. My brother has lived out there for over 10 years never went to a Las Vegas 51's games goes to Buffalo Bisons games when he visits in the summer to get out of the hot Las Vegas summer heat.
He won't go either because the heat it is unbearable no mist is going to stop being in a oven in the summer out there. That is what it is like being in a oven. You run to your car and turn on the car with air conditioning on max at all times in the summer months. In Las Vegas in the summer it is running from air conditioning to air conditioning and drinking bottle water like your a camel.
If Las Vegas wants sports there going to have to pay for it like everyone else does. There not special and they relied on the casinos for arena venues for far to long in my opinion the 1970's and 1980's are over. Las Vegas wants to be a big time city time to pay like a big time city.
That is the real problem with Las Vegas as a community alot of dreamers with ideas and no one wanting there tax money spent on anything. Forget gambling that isn't the real issue why major sports won't go there today in my opinion. If Las Vegas had a major league arena up the NHL would be there now. NHL has gambling on games with Proline in Ontario where the Toronto Maple Leafs and Ottawa Senators play already so the NHL doesn't really care in my opinion and would go to Las Vegas if the community cared enough to build a arena which they don't.
The NHL I believe would be the first major league to go there. And if they didn't MLS would for sure if a domed soccer stadium was build but like I said dreamers and talk but no money investment wise from the Las Vegas community that is the real problem there. Casinos aren't going to pay for something to hurt there business not going to happen and I don't blame them. The Las Vegas community needs to make the investment and they refuse. Which is fine no big deal for me I moved back to my hometown of Buffalo 7 years ago from Las Vegas.
I believe in watching the taxpayer dollars as most on here know how I feel about that the new stadium or arena has to make sense meaning it is old and needs to be replaced etc but in Las Vegas it is a joke in my opinion. The Las Vegas mayor wants major league sports teams with no money to build the arena or stadium come to the table mayor the community if they want it needs to make an investment like everyone else again there not special.
New York and New Jersey have spents billions to keep professional sports in there states on arenas and stadiums either brand new or remodeled. I don't feel sorry for Las Vegas when there citizens haven't spent a dime investment wise in arenas and stadium ever the casinos always have done it for them.
That is a joke to want major league sports yet make no money investment as a community in Las Vegas. To be honest they deserve to lose sports if they are unwilling to make a investment. Same with Los Angeles and the NFL they talk big about NFL but at the end of the day it is just talk. If Los Angeles really wanted NFL football bad make the investment as a community till then all it is basically is talk.
Buffalo invested as a community with the help of New York State to keep sports franchises in Western New York. Nothing is free and that is something some of the western part of the United States doesn't get in my opinion in places like California and Nevada. Yes your big so what so is Boston, Dallas and Philadelphia and they made the economic investment as a community because they felt it was important enough to have a major league sports teams in there community.
I waver on this issues sometimes if the demand for money isn't justified but not with Las Vegas the casinos are hurting from the reccession they can't fund everything anymore in Nevada. Las Vegas like you said quadrupled population wise plenty of taxpayers now. Time to pay if you want to play. If they don't then they made a choice as a community that sports aren't that important which is fine.
But in my opinion sports are important entainment for me that is one of the reasons I didn't stay in Las Vegas and moved back to Buffalo my hometown. I am hard on Las Vegas in this post I realize that. I enjoyed when I lived out in Las Vegas going back still to visit my brother out there and I might someday live there when I am old or Tampa, Florida someday funny you mentioned Tampa, Aardvark. I liked Tampa and I like the dome when I was in it for the Tampa Bay Rays on vacation. Thinking of those areas when I am old because the cold in Buffalo as you get older it gets tougher on the body. But the Las Vegas community needs to come to the table if they want big time sports major leagues aren't going to do it for them in my opinion.
Las Vegas doesn't get it as a community and I don't think they ever will get it not just the investment part which is huge but also the making sports apart of your life entainment wise. They don't get it out there in Las Vegas like a Buffalo or a Philadelphia or a New York City that build not one stadium but two baseball stadiums. For the New York Yankees and New York Mets and also upgrading MSG for the New York Knicks and New York Rangers and building the new Brooklyn Arena for major league sports to return to Brooklyn after 50 plus years for the New Jersey Nets.
Plus the state of New York funded upgrades for the Buffalo Bills Ralph Wilson Stadium and a whole new arena for the Buffalo Sabres plus our Coke Cola Field for the Buffalo Bisons that is making an investment as a community in my opinion. What has Las Vegas as a community and state of Nevada invested in sport stadium and arena wise? Nothing just talk. Let's Go Buffalo