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Fresno has serious problems. Portland can't get a taker for a new ballpark, while Nashville is left wanting. Memphis misses two bond payments. New Orleans is getting state aid. The big teams have not held attendance steady.

At some point, methinks the costs have to come down.

Is it time to re-divide the leagues and re-establish a version of the American Association? I have doubts that travel costs price out well for these owners, no matter that they're not paying player salaries.

Caveat- Albuquerque belongs with the west, meaning there's 9 in the west and 7 in the midwest etc. One has to move over... could end up being the Beavers going east.

aaa loops myself

[quote=""Pounder""]Fresno has serious problems. Portland can't get a taker for a new ballpark, while Nashville is left wanting. Memphis misses two bond payments. New Orleans is getting state aid. The big teams have not held attendance steady.

At some point, methinks the costs have to come down.

Is it time to re-divide the leagues and re-establish a version of the American Association? I have doubts that travel costs price out well for these owners, no matter that they're not paying player salaries.

Caveat- Albuquerque belongs with the west, meaning there's 9 in the west and 7 in the midwest etc. One has to move over... could end up being the Beavers going east.[/quote]

Pounder I think your onto something with the PCL. But the problem is the IL is making alot of money with this setup now because IL teams draw yearly and has great travel up and down the east coast and midwest. I am surprised at some of the attendance numbers coming out of the PCL there is a problem in the PCL I agree pounder. But I think the IL owners will just let the PCL rot because it doesn't affect them in my opinion. I am just speaking my opinion and I am a Buffalo Bisons IL fan put yourself in the IL place why change a good thing for them.

The IL took the good American Association cities in my opinion Buffalo, Indianapolis and Louisville all cities with metros over 1 million people with very rich owners. The Buffalo Bisons owner Bob Rich is a billionaire and makes millions on the Buffalo Bisons IL who are the only game in town in the summertime in Buffalo till NFL Buffalo Bills start training camp in August.

Remember my Buffalo was passed over for NL expansion with it going to Denver and Miami but Buffalo didn't pout about it we just kept going to the games like no big deal it was the NL loss. Buffalo understood why we were passed over for bigger cities and bigger televison markets it was nothing we did wrong just that in Denver and Miami they where bigger in my opinion.

So the Buffalo Bisons aren't hurting in the IL plus with the New York Mets PDC deal our Buffalo Bisons games are shown in New York City that is huge plus all our merchandise is sold in the New York Mets team shop at the new Citi Field. Buffalo has crowds as large as 17,000 plus this year so money is coming in like buckets so again why change pounder if your the IL?

We (Buffalo Bisons) have two teams Rochester Red Wings and Syracuse Chiefs that are less then three hours to Syracuse and 1 1/2 hours to Rochester by bus if your Buffalo your never going to the American Association again with alot of airplane trips.

See that is the thing in the old American Association those were the days when Buffalo could afford the longer travel and extra cost because we had a new ballpark 1988 and drawing over 1 million a year. Now the Buffalo Bisons draw 600,000 yearly give or take a few.

I will make you one gurantee pounder take it to the bank the Buffalo Bisons IL will never go back to the American Association we were stuck there because there were no IL teams for sale in 1985 and the IL wasn't expanding at that time when Buffalo Bisons owner Bob Rich brought triple-a baseball back to Buffalo with the purchase of the triple-a American Association Wichita Aeros. The Buffalo Bisons were in the old American Association from 1985 to 1997.

IL is Buffalo's rightful home for years from 1902 to 1970 and 1998 to present day. I think pounder the leagues will split someday maybe taking the IL west teams of Columbus going instead of Buffalo because that will never happen, Indianapolis and Louisville in like a midwest divisional triple-a league. But I think it would take alot of convincing on the PCL part in my opinion. The PCL teams and there fans have to get there act together and start going to games in greater numbers and the PCL league has to stop protecting failing franchises like the Las Vegas 51's PCL.

The PCL commissioner isn't doing the PCL any favors by doing that because of travel hub that is the silly reason to keep a team in Las Vegas in my opinion. So what he is saying in my opinion is Las Vegas has different rules then say Iowa see what I am getting at pounder it sets a bad example. The Las Vegas 51's management will have a hard time getting fans to go to games in any regularity if those fans know oh well if I don't make it out to the ball park no big deal the Las Vegas 51's will never be moved because there in a travel hub PCL commissioner said so in the newspaper see that I see as a problem in my opinion. If you don't go to your games then you shouldn't be guaranteed a team in my opinion. Las Vegas at one of there games had paid attendance of like 2,000 and something.

For Buffalo for a 2,000 or less paid attendance in the IL you would have to go back to the late 1960's and 1970 season that was because of riots because of the protest of the 1960's basically the times we were living in at that time period in this country and the Buffalo Bisons IL fans were scared to go to the Buffalo Bisons IL games at the old ball park War Memorial Stadium so they tried moving some of the games to Niagara Falls a single-a baseball stadium but that didn't help and the team moved in June of 1970 to Winnipeg, Canada and became the Winnipeg Whips IL and they are now the Scranton-WB Yankees IL believe it or not in the present day IL. But Las Vegas 51's reporting a 2,000 plus paid attendance number means that is there season ticket numbers meaning there to low in my opinion. Buffalo Bisons IL season ticket numbers are double that of the Las Vegas 51's going by that figure in the Las Vegas 51's attendance report this year for a game. Let's Go Buffalo

When I dove into this, one variable was how far east the Beavers might move. See, Albuquerque is a little far west for their division. Balance at 8 & 8, and a split becomes easier. However, it is now clear that the farthest east the Beavers might move is El Paso (relatively close to, and due south of, Albuquerque).

Thing is, the main suitor now is the owner of the Padres. If that's how this happens, then a trend has started... and if (a big IF) that fleshes out, then we could be looking at a whole different direction.

The trend: the Atlanta ownership bought the Richmond club and moved them to Gwinnett County, in the Atlanta suburbs. Add that to Pawtucket's proximity from Boston, Tacoma's distance from Seattle... even the 80 miles from Oakland to Sacramento.

A mention was made in one of the San Diego area papers about how Daisuke Matsuzaka ends up a no-go against the Yankees at Fenway recently... such that Dice-K is put on the disabled list. The called-up reliever is driven up from Pawtucket and is dressed in Fenway by the 5th inning.

Envision this: the "AAA" team travels with the major league team, the schedules coordinate.

In practice: Japan has no farm system. The reserve teams play before the big teams play, generally in the empty main stadium. With this variation, the AAA team probably won't be further than 100 miles from their parent.

That may be far into the future. I consider it a strong possibility, however.

[quote=""Pounder""]When I dove into this, one variable was how far east the Beavers might move. See, Albuquerque is a little far west for their division. Balance at 8 & 8, and a split becomes easier. However, it is now clear that the farthest east the Beavers might move is El Paso (relatively close to, and due south of, Albuquerque).

Thing is, the main suitor now is the owner of the Padres. If that's how this happens, then a trend has started... and if (a big IF) that fleshes out, then we could be looking at a whole different direction.

The trend: the Atlanta ownership bought the Richmond club and moved them to Gwinnett County, in the Atlanta suburbs. Add that to Pawtucket's proximity from Boston, Tacoma's distance from Seattle... even the 80 miles from Oakland to Sacramento.

A mention was made in one of the San Diego area papers about how Daisuke Matsuzaka ends up a no-go against the Yankees at Fenway recently... such that Dice-K is put on the disabled list. The called-up reliever is driven up from Pawtucket and is dressed in Fenway by the 5th inning.

Envision this: the "AAA" team travels with the major league team, the schedules coordinate.

In practice: Japan has no farm system. The reserve teams play before the big teams play, generally in the empty main stadium. With this variation, the AAA team probably won't be further than 100 miles from their parent.

That may be far into the future. I consider it a strong possibility, however.[/quote]

But the problem with what you propose is two fold pounder one the Japanese Leagues aren't as strong as the majors finacially that is why no farm system in Japan in my opinion. Plus Japan covers most of there major cities with Nippon Professional Baseball or NPB baseball teams already so there is no need for triple-a in my opinion like in the US where there is a need in the east and midwest for triple-a baseball.

I understand your based pounder in the west where the attitude is a little different towards sports in general in my opinion. In places like Buffalo the IL is a big deal on a friday, saturday nights and sunday afternoons in my opinion. Are you going to tell fans in Buffalo if your MLB pounder oh were doing away with your IL triple-a baseball team the Buffalo Bisons IL and the Buffalo Bisons IL owner Bob Rich forget about that investment you made and the profits you made major league is taking over he would sue MLB if that happened in my opinion inless your saying cities like Buffalo are getting expansion MLB teams I don't think your idea would work in my opinion pounder.

And I think US Congress atleast our representation from New York State would get involved for hurting cities like Buffalo IL in my opinion MLB teams would be risking there anti trust exemption if MLB took teams away from triple-a cities like Buffalo for no reason at all that supported there teams yearly like the Buffalo Bisons IL fans. When the Buffalo Bisons IL announced there PDC with the New York Mets alot of New York State political people were at the press conference including the Governor of the State of New York.

Think it is crazy with BCS for college football and states getting involved with realignment try taking triple-a baseball out of three cities in New York State, Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse in my opinion New York State would have a problem with that idea it would hurt Buffalo downtown businesses never happening in my opinion. Plus Rochester Red Wings IL and Syracuse Chiefs IL are community owned like the Green Bay Packers NFL for years MLB would be sued in my opinion for hurting viable businesses and trying to create a monopoly for themselves AL and NL.

I will tell you what could happen if MLB does that it would be MLB worst nightmare in my opinion. Why you ask pounder here is something else to think about? Because think about it if MLB did that cities that are in reality major league baseball cities already in my opinion like Buffalo could possibly form a third league as a possible option. Like the old Federal League and go major league as a third major league it would be a nightmare for major league baseball in my opinion. Because one your adding travel cost to MLB with your idea for MLB to own there own triple teams pounder with majors and triple-a together for the major league parent club.

Then added to that your facing a new third major baseball league because you left nice ballparks like Buffalo empty that had fans with no baseball to go too in the summer. Buffalo Bisons IL baseball park holds over 18,000 and was designed to add another 22,000 seats if Buffalo ever got MLB baseball so Buffalo could possible have a 40,000 seat ballpark to use in my opinion. All Buffalo would have to do is like we did with the old AUD when NHL and NBA came to Buffalo in 1970 was raise the roof and add another deck. MLB wouldn't risk that with cities like Buffalo out in the cold in my opinion. There was talk along time ago I recall in I think 1984 when a purposed third major league the North American Baseball League was recruiting cities like Buffalo and Brooklyn why temp Buffalo if your MLB there is no reason to do that in my opinion. Also Buffalo was a part of a purposed Continental Baseball League in 1960. So in my opinion no way MLB takes that risk.

When Buffalo had Federal League baseball in 1914 and 1915 the Buffalo Blues FL they played without minor leagues teams of there own the Federal League teams our best player on the Buffalo Blues FL was a great hitter Hal Chase who was a former New York Yankees AL. Buffalo at onetime had two baseball teams the Buffalo Blues FL and Buffalo Bisons IL both playing at the same time in the years of 1914 and 1915 now pounder under your purposal Buffalo would have nothing? I don't see it happening ever in my opinion inless your purposal gives Buffalo MLB baseball.

Buffalo averages over 8,000 a game per game average give or take at worst some independent league Atlantic League would pick them up in my opinion so I guess Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse could possible go there with the Long Island Ducks etc but MLB in my opinion would also be sued for damages. No way major league baseball AL and NL open up that door to risk business wise in my opinion. Minor league triple-a baseball keeps boarderline MLB cities like Buffalo under the thumb of the majors AL and NL without cities like Buffalo getting any ideas of joining a new third baseball major league in my opinion that is one reason why I see triple-a existing for no other reason then that one.

Because look I look at the Buffalo Bisons IL like majors now as a Buffalo sports fan I never thought of them as minor league team because everything is done like a major league team except we don't own the players the New York Mets NL do other then that there is no difference in my opinion.

I don't root any less for the Buffalo Bisons IL then I do for the Buffalo Bills NFL, Buffalo Sabres NHL, Buffalo Bandits NLL or Buffalo Bulls NCAA FBS MAC Football it is all the same to me rooting on my city of Buffalo against the competition see that is where I think cities like Buffalo and pounder your base city of Portland differ in my opinion. I will go support the Buffalo sports teams if there 0-144 for the Buffalo Bisons or 0-16 for the Buffalo Bills I am still going because that is my cities team.

We have 46 Buffalo Bisons IL games on tv here locally in Buffalo on TWCSN TV 13 and 100 plus internet MILB TV on our Bisons.com site. Plus 5 Buffalo Bisons IL games go to New York City on SNY TV the New York Mets cable tv station. I don't follow AL and NL as closely as the IL because Buffalo Bisons IL that is my major league baseball in my city of Buffalo. So I don't think the majors ever risk that with major league cities already like Charlotte, Indianapolis, Columbus and Buffalo in other major sports leagues like the NBA, NHL, NFL and MLS. But I could be wrong but I don't see Buffalo ever going without some kind of baseball. Let's Go Buffalo

There is some further explanation involved here.

- During last winter's studying, I ran across a blog entry decrying the minor leagues' new website arrangement. Basically, its come under the ownership of MAJOR League Baseball. Complaints on the blog comments already alluded to more prominence given articles about players making the majors, and more difficulty finding, say, how to get tickets to your minor league game.

- That same blog did mention that major league owners are miffed that minor league owners don't share more of the expenses.

I'll have more time later, but my next point is, basically, "what is AAA baseball?" Size orientation perhaps should give way to "expose the future stars to larger audiences," and more players spend less time in AAA.

[quote=""Pounder""]There is some further explanation involved here.

- During last winter's studying, I ran across a blog entry decrying the minor leagues' new website arrangement. Basically, its come under the ownership of MAJOR League Baseball. Complaints on the blog comments already alluded to more prominence given articles about players making the majors, and more difficulty finding, say, how to get tickets to your minor league game.

- That same blog did mention that major league owners are miffed that minor league owners don't share more of the expenses.

I'll have more time later, but my next point is, basically, "what is AAA baseball?" Size orientation perhaps should give way to "expose the future stars to larger audiences," and more players spend less time in AAA.[/quote]

Pounder I understand what your saying but the MLB in my opinion would be opening up something they may not want to get into that is my opinion. Legally MLB in my opinion would not be able to just tell a Bob Rich for example I use him because he is a owner I am formuliar with the Buffalo Bisons that you are no longer in business in the IL. The Buffalo Bisons and most IL clubs have no problem getting to the IL games in my opinion.

I still think the PCL problems is a west coast thing where triple-a baseball isn't something alot of the people choose to spend there money on in my opinion in the west like the midwest and east. If it was me I would move PCL teams out of west coast cities like the AHL hockey did it was smart business move if the west refuses to go in the numbers required to make a profit or at worse break even in my opinion. Move the PCL teams to the east and midwest and rename the PCL the Mid-American League and be done with it if the west refuses to see triple-a baseball is good baseball and has value for the sports fan in my opinion.

MLB owners can't just say where taking away someones IL profitable business away in my opinion. If MLB has a problem with there agreement with triple-a clubs they would have to take that up when there present agreement is up with triple-a teams in my opinion. But understand something if MLB wants more money back from triple-a teams that means giving something back in my opinion.

Like what BSF? Like no more september 21 the minor league season and playoff have to be over. No more calling everyone up on september 1 in my opinion. Understand IL playoffs use to be best of 7 series and IL seasons went more into september until the MLB put the end to that. Baseball in the minors like in Buffalo the weather is great in september for baseball in my opinion. When I went to IL playoff games I always felt the IL season should start in May in the east and go into the second week in september then IL playoffs best of 7 for the two rounds. Then for the first week in October bring back the old Junior World Series best of 7 in the teams particapating home ball parks not some neutral site venue where not many care in my opinion I would do that.

If MLB wants more money from triple-a fine but they better be prepared to give something back to triple-a baseball instead of take and take which MLB has been doing since the 1960's in my opinion. MLB money problems in my opinion has very little to do with triple-a baseball and everything to do with they are out pricing the middle class sports fans in america that is reality in my opinion for MLB. I am not going to get to into this because this is a sports board not a politics and economy board but look around there are alot of people that are potential sports buying ticket fans out of work in this country in my opinion. With MLB afraid of MLBPA players unions lets speak the truth in my opinion. MLB and all big four sports NFL, NBA and NHL are outpricing or will soon outprice middle class americans who are potential sport ticket buying fans in my opinion mostly because players want more and more and owners want more and more it is called greed.

Triple-a baseball has nothing to do with MLB problems of greed in my opinion the player unions and owners have ruined sports in this country for most other then the upper class and corporate fans in america in my opinion. Let's speak the truth sports in my opinion we will reach a day when the average american sports fan just won't be able to afford major league sports not because they don't want to go but because they can't go to games because of more important family needs like eating, having a place to live and most importantly having a job in my opinion sports finishes last on the list of things I mentioned in my opinion. The big four sports leagues in my opinion have or are becoming tv sports for most sports fans in the US. Triple-a and the IL are not to blame for the MLB problems in my opinion.

The PCL in my opinion has to figure out there own problems and don't look for the healthy IL to solve the PCL problems. In my opinion it is called going to the games like I am doing on saturday night in Buffalo when my Buffalo Bisons IL return home from Columbus Clippers tonight to take on the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs saturday at Coke Cola Field. I just don't post on a oursportscentral IL and PCL webboard I do as I post I go to games locally in my home city of Buffalo that is what it is all about at the end of the day in my opinion. We fans need to support our home teams in what ever way we can individually afford to do finacially in my opinion. Nice chatting with you pounder and I am sorry about the Portland Beavers PCL potentially leaving Portland maybe someday your city will get MLB or another PCL team back down the road when the economy is better. Let's Go Buffalo

http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/ima ... report.pdf

Now, frankly, I don't think much of the author of this piece. Furthermore, I'm betting to hear colorful words from Super Fan about the Buffalo councilman who offered that quote to Mr. Christensen. However, a fair amount of that research is pretty straightforward, even if Isotopes Stadium was listed as a suburban ballpark. Actually, if anyone else finds crap in that report, be sure to list it here. Please.

I also certainly have not come on here seeking to disparage Buffalo. I kind of expect the Buffalo fanboy to come out in those remarks, and we're not disappointed. The thing is, the year Pilot Field opened, it drew 15,000 a game, over a million for the season. I used it as an example of what Portland might do to accomodate the Beavers while hoping for the majors 7 years ago. I've only recently found out how paltry that effort was. Anyway, looking at the IL attendance this morning, Buffalo is drawing half the crowds of that first year. At some point, you have to think Buffalo has too much ballpark.

I also know the IL fares better than the PCL. I don't think MLB cares. Super Fan, MLB owners are many of the wealthiest of the wealthy. They fund a lot of congressional campaigns. I don't see reordering the minors as a major cause for government concern... especially with the way players are developed these days. More shortly. Even so, consider the possibility that the 3rd league (the short term issue IMO) doesn't require Buffalo moving west... except maybe the IL adds Omaha and Iowa. Charlotte and Durham and Gwinnett suggest a more southern strategy with the "Big 12" teams and New Orleans and Tennessee. Maybe Louisville joins them. Maybe Scranton moves south. There's several ways to do this.

[quote=""Pounder""]http://blogtown.portlandmercury.com/ima ... report.pdf

Now, frankly, I don't think much of the author of this piece. Furthermore, I'm betting to hear colorful words from Super Fan about the Buffalo councilman who offered that quote to Mr. Christensen. However, a fair amount of that research is pretty straightforward, even if Isotopes Stadium was listed as a suburban ballpark. Actually, if anyone else finds crap in that report, be sure to list it here. Please.

I also certainly have not come on here seeking to disparage Buffalo. I kind of expect the Buffalo fanboy to come out in those remarks, and we're not disappointed. The thing is, the year Pilot Field opened, it drew 15,000 a game, over a million for the season. I used it as an example of what Portland might do to accomodate the Beavers while hoping for the majors 7 years ago. I've only recently found out how paltry that effort was. Anyway, looking at the IL attendance this morning, Buffalo is drawing half the crowds of that first year. At some point, you have to think Buffalo has too much ballpark.

I also know the IL fares better than the PCL. I don't think MLB cares. Super Fan, MLB owners are many of the wealthiest of the wealthy. They fund a lot of congressional campaigns. I don't see reordering the minors as a major cause for government concern... especially with the way players are developed these days. More shortly. Even so, consider the possibility that the 3rd league (the short term issue IMO) doesn't require Buffalo moving west... except maybe the IL adds Omaha and Iowa. Charlotte and Durham and Gwinnett suggest a more southern strategy with the "Big 12" teams and New Orleans and Tennessee. Maybe Louisville joins them. Maybe Scranton moves south. There's several ways to do this.[/quote]

Pounder first off I didn't read the link I will when I get a chance. If you don't think New York State wouldn't have a problem with MLB shuting down Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester IL baseball team now your just showing your pro MLS soccer views which is fine it is your opinion I respect everyones opinion on all these boards here and I love MLS soccer but I also love triple-a IL baseball and can switch hats meaning I look at both sides and love both sports. I love all sports not just IL or MLS. I will stick up for anything NLL, WTT, NASL, MISL, AHL, ECHL, PCL, UFL, AFL, IFL, PBL, D-League etc you get the idea pounder as long as it doesn't cost the city taxpayers that doesn't give a hoot about sports money.

That is where I have a problem with the Portland MLS thing. If there is no Portland taxpayer money and Paulson wants to sell the PCL team he can he is a business man and can do whatever he likes nothing can stop business. My problem is he getting taxpayer money on a iffy at best sport business investment MLS in rough economic times. Very few MLS teams turn a profit and most lose money right now in my opinion. Can that change someday maybe but maybe not too it could go either way in my opinion.

Are you as a taxpayer going to give Paulson more money in 5 years if he needs it if Timbers MLS fans didn't come out as expected like the Phoenix Coyotes of the NHL? Look what the Phoenix Coyotes want now to stay in Phoenix. I am saying I wouldn't be comfortable with that as a fan looking at it objectly even as a fan boy if you want to call me that fine. MLS doesn't have a high player payroll yet either like NFL where your state can recoup some of that money back though the taxes on the salaries of the players and team personal.

You want to talk Buffalo atleat we show up regular for the Buffalo Bisons IL and Bob Rich pays all the bills without asking for money from the taxpayers to fund the team. I don't have to worry about Bob Rich asking for money in five years in my opinion he takes care of it and we the fans go regular for being that care taker. Sports business is private in my opinion taxpayers shouldn't in my opinion be funding this stuff.

I as a sports fan will always say the city of Portland and Paulson didn't have to do what they did it was your owner and your cities political peoples decission. What is done is done but I am not going to justify it. Portland had two sports team and now they have one plus your using taxpayers money for the MLS one now instead of nothing to keep PCL and NASL.

Because there was very little thought of the Portland Beavers PCL baseball fans I will stick up for them. But in my opinion I think this more on Paulson your Timbers MLS owner of not wanting your market to have both MLS and PCL and he is using MLS as a skirt to hide behind so he doesn't come off as uncaring towards the Beavers PCL because after all he still has to market Timbers MLS tickets to some of those old Beavers PCL baseball fans why tick them off that is bad business so hide behind the MLS oh MLS wants soccer only no baseball. Arrangements could have been made for the Beavers PCL to stay until they get a new ballpark in my opinion this is Paulson's doing not MLS.

All MLS cares about in my opinion is the huge expansion franchise fee that Portland is paying. MLS will take most cities in my opinion. Buffalo private owner could go to MLS tomorrow with Ralph Wilson Stadium and say we want a team and will give the MLS $100 million dollars expansion fee guess what welcome to Buffalo MLS soccer that is my point. So the stadium arguement in my opinion is bogus with Portland. MLS is after expansion money they looked at Ottawa for sake of arguement that had a failed IL baseball team and had two failed CFL teams. The reason MLS looked at Ottawa was because the Ottawa Senators NHL owner had alot of money in my opinion. Like Buffalo Bisons IL owner Bob Rich or Buffalo Sabres NHL owner Tom Golisano have alot of money in my opinion.

At the end of the day no matter what you want to believe pounder the baseball fans of Portland got screwed in my opinion and so did the city of Portland taxpayers for Paulson MLS Portland Timbers. What is done is done but the IL no matter what you want to believe will continue well into the future just like MLS. Buffalo isn't getting kicked out of IL baseball there are tickets, beer and hotdogs to sell.

You have no information on what Bob Rich makes on the Buffalo Bisons IL neither do I because he doesn't open the books even to our elected officials so it is a mystery and just guessing in my opinion. Plus he is a private business man and doesn't have to because he runs the ball park private at no cost to the taxpayers of the city of Buffalo, county of Erie or the state of the New York.

So take that for what is worth it is just my opinion. But Bob Rich isn't hurting and he in my opinion would sue if MLB take away his income. I know how rich MLB owners are pounder but Bob Rich is a billionaire too. He sells Rich products all over the world including south america and china. I would put Bob Rich up against any MLB owner you want that not me being fan boy that is fact.

MLB actually liked Bob Rich that is why we made it to the round of 5 in 1993 NL expansion derby with a shrinking market Buffalo in my opinion. Look up Bob Rich then tell me MLB is taking away his business of baseball in Buffalo completely disagree and I think he would sue in my opinion even through that will never happen.

Bob Rich owns everything in the ballpark the food everything no one is taking a cut other then taxes federal and state and day to day business cost with running a IL team. Meaning there is no sportsservice for food he does his own food because he is in the food business so it is all in his pocket. There are no loans on the stadium the ballpark as far as I know is paid for now. He has total control of that park meaning no SMG or third party getting a cut for all events the money goes into Bob Rich's pocket.

Our city let the Buffalo Bisons IL run and take care of the ballpark in return the Buffalo Bisons keep all the money except taxes and business expenses of day to day with the club. The Buffalo Bisons are also opening up a conference center at the ballpark for Buffalo businesses that the Buffalo Bisons owner Bob Rich build with his own private money not a dime came from the tax payer tell me again why pounder you seem to think I am just fan boy and the Buffalo Bisons IL are hurting how?

Look online Bisons.com Buffalo Bisons PDC signing two more years with the New York Mets both parties are happy and the Buffalo Bisons publically said business is good. Pounder you must see something I don't see with the Buffalo Bisons? I am not trying to get this into a Buffalo IL versus Portland MLS just showing you the Buffalo Bison IL aren't some baseball team that is going away because MLB potentially says so that is competely bogus and call me fan boy I will tell you facts.

Also your forgetting something pounder the Coke Cola Field holds concerts and the Buffalo Wing Festival yearly the ballpark isn't too big we need the extra seats for the Rock/Country Music concerts held there. Better to big in my opinion then to small so we disagree there.

Paulson made that stuff up that he is selling your city that your ballpark is too big for PCL baseball for his own personal gain in my opinion. I think you pounder got the wool pulled over your eyes or I will call it the MLS/Paulson pulled over your eyes if you think size of a ballpark determines finacial success in my opinion. No money should go to Paulson a private business man in my opinion. If MLS is a good investment then he should pay for all of it not the taxpayer.

I am a sports fan yes but my being a sports fan shouldn't cost Jimmy and Martha down the street that don't like sports taxpayer money of theres. That has happen far to often in my opinion ask Phoenix's Glendale if there arena and NHL was a good investment for the taxpayers of Phoenix for that arena. Let's Go Buffalo

Pounder I read the Buffalo part. The feedback was from one political person in Buffalo with a agenda nothing more in my opinion.

Rank Team League Year Attendance

1. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1991 1,240,951
2. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1988 1,186,651
3. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1990 1,174,358
4. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1992 1,134,488
5. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1989 1,132,183
6. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1993 1,079,620
7. Louisville Redbirds American Association 1983 1,052,438
8. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1994 982,493
9. Buffalo Bisons American Association 1995 951,080
10. Sacramento River Cats Pacific Coast League 2001 901,214

It is pretty easy to go no where but down when your drawing like my Buffalo Bisons were when the ballpark first opened a cheap shot in my opinion by someone with a problem with Bob Rich in my opinion nothing more. As a Buffalonian in my opinion the Buffalo councilman should be ashamed of himself for bashing his own city which is the best in my opinion. We still draw well and you have one persons view and no one elses. With no facts behind it like I am giving you look up if you don't believe pounder. It is hard to argue against the Buffalo Bisons success over the past 20 plus years downtown.

Atleast the Buffalo Bisons paid off the loan which I will stand by as a good investment because the taxpayers got back the money through rent and taxes. We didn't get stuck holding the bag and we continue to benefit yearly in my opinion. So does Buffalo in my opinion in the summer time I had no reason to go to downtown Buffalo to spend my money after Buffalo Sabres NHL and Buffalo Braves NBA season till they left in 1978 ended.

Downtown Buffalo in the summer as a kid growing up there was no reason to spend money down there in the summers before the Buffalo Bisons IL moved downtown in my opinion. Once Buffalo Sabres NHL ended with the winter sports season that was it in my opinion for going down there. Our downtown was never huge it was just a average nothing more downtown in my opinion. If your saying is Buffalo going to become New York City because of a sports stadium of course not who on earth would realistically expect that. I sure didn't all I wanted as a sports fan/taxpayer is for the team to honor there lease and payoff the stadium debt and the Buffalo Bisons IL did that. So did the Buffalo Bills NFL with Ralph Wilson Stadium. And the Buffalo Sabres NHL are in the process of doing they are halfway there already of paying off the lease and the money they owe on the HSBC Arena. As a taxpayer that is what I expect and that is what I got. Not Buffalo becoming NYC or LA or Chicago people selling that are unrealistic in my opinion. But we see if the Portland Timbers MLS honor there lease with no more money asked in the future from the taxpayers of Portland? I have doubts in my opinion about Portland and MLS. You can knock Buffalo Bisons IL pounder but our teams pay off there stadium debt and our fans go to games. Can Portland Timbers MLS say the same thing we will see won't we?

At the end of the day did Buffalo get MLB major league baseball and realized its dream no. But the Buffalo taxpayer didn't get taken because the team paid off the notes and never asked for a dime after the new stadium in 1988. We will see if your Portland Timbers MLS ever draw like my Buffalo Bisons. I am proud of Buffalo atleast we go to games yearly.

That man quoted is the only person I have ever heard that said the Buffalo Bisons IL aren't good for Buffalo. The money the Buffalo Bisons IL got was paid off years ago one to the state of New York. And two if Buffalo would have gotten MLB baseball that goes back to the salaries are so high you can tax the high payrolls not the same with MLS apples and oranges. At the end of the day the Buffalo Bisons bottom line are still playing baseball in Buffalo. We will see if Portland has the Portland Timbers MLS in 20 plus years like my Buffalo Bisons IL 125 years and still going strong in my opinion.

If your asking me if the money can be better spent then on stadiums and arenas yes that I would agree with that part from the Buffalo councilmen. But if he saying the Buffalo Bisons are bad for Buffalo then I disagree with that. Also if the Buffalo councilman has better ways of improving Buffalo I am all ears because I have yet to see it 42 years and counting living here. What has the Buffalo councilman done since 1988 after that year with projects for Buffalo that were good for Buffalo in general that generated spinoff business? Outside Coke Cola Field 1988 and HSBC Arena 1997 what are these great better uses of taxpayers money gone that improved Buffalo businesses. I love to hear his answer to that one? Let's Go Buffalo