SPHL New Teams

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ytse123
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Post by ytse123 » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:20 am

dgjordan wrote:
Have you heard any more on the VA team(s) hopefully coming to SPHL?

Richmond is a lock.. all the staff of the UHL team has moved to chicago.. leaving a skeleton crew... and the old ECHL owner of the Renegades has been granted a SPHL franchise. He has been showing up at all the Riverdogs games with a Renegades and SPHL pin on his lapel.
"Thank God there's still a sport for middle sized white boys"- Youngblood

adsco
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Daytona & Ricmond teams.

Post by adsco » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:15 pm

#1 Guard Fan wrote:Like I said it was a rumor. Hopefully they will still be around next year. I have heard Daytona Beach might be coming to the SPHL next year too. That would be great to have 3 Fl teams maybe that would help better with a fan base having three teams to compete interstate
I have it on good authority that Richmond will be in, as long as the UTL moves out.

Unfortunetely, the Arena rental rate is not that good in Richmond. Until these guys (new owners) realize that they won't make a go of it unless they are paying .50 cents a head to the arena for attendence, and get a kick back for big crowds (ie: free rent for sell outs and big crowds) and free practise ice - they aren't going to make it. If you don't have a business plan that allows you to break even with 1,500 average attendence, your pissing in the wind.

Daytona is in for sure in 2008-2009; but possibly next year. The owner may run the team out of the Ice Palace, as the Daytona Beach Convention Center hasn't built the areana yet, or is presently overbooked and they need to do renovations in order to accomadate the team.

As best as I understand it: you would have to pack fans in to the Ice Palace like sardines, and it would be, "mostly standing room" only, to get 600-1000 fans in.

Playing in the Ice Palace, in my view, is a bad idea: it will give prospective players, and fans a "mickey mouse perception" of the team and league.

I wish the new owners luck though!

With the salary cap, and reduced travel in the SPHL, I think it will eventually rival the other AA leagues both in stability, and level of play.

GO SPHL!

mitchg73
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Post by mitchg73 » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:42 am

adsco wrote:I have it on good authority that Richmond will be in, as long as the UTL moves out.

Unfortunetely, the Arena rental rate is not that good in Richmond. Until these guys (new owners) realize that they won't make a go of it unless they are paying .50 cents a head to the arena for attendence, and get a kick back for big crowds (ie: free rent for sell outs and big crowds) and free practise ice - they aren't going to make it. If you don't have a business plan that allows you to break even with 1,500 average attendence, your pissing in the wind.

Daytona is in for sure in 2008-2009; but possibly next year. The owner may run the team out of the Ice Palace, as the Daytona Beach Convention Center hasn't built the areana yet, or is presently overbooked and they need to do renovations in order to accomadate the team.

As best as I understand it: you would have to pack fans in to the Ice Palace like sardines, and it would be, "mostly standing room" only, to get 600-1000 fans in.

Playing in the Ice Palace, in my view, is a bad idea: it will give prospective players, and fans a "mickey mouse perception" of the team and league.

I wish the new owners luck though!

With the salary cap, and reduced travel in the SPHL, I think it will eventually rival the other AA leagues both in stability, and level of play.

GO SPHL!
richmond should be a sure thing....daytona wont happen i wish macon or lakeland city members would come around if not no teams there

Mike4FireAntz34
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Post by Mike4FireAntz34 » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:40 am

Macon would be great for the SPHL but I think they are in a different league.

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Post by #1 Guard Fan » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:28 pm

I have heard rumors that Macon may be back in the SPHL next year. Time will tell

KLM Line
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Comments about comments, etc

Post by KLM Line » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:32 pm

The Va team has drifted from about a 75% certainty to about a 90% certainty. Perhaps higher. Keep in mind that until they start skating nothing is certain, however things are going well. Lets just say that the powers that be think it's going to happen and they are working based on that assumption.

Regarding an earlier comment by someone; (I think it was RAMS) putting 1500 fannies in the seats generally will not allow even an SPHL team to break even, even if the organization is being well managed. By that I mean a team that has a full-time front office staff consisting of more than 1 or 2 full time employees. Excluding Pee Dee which has had so much staffing drama this year, it generally takes between 1800 and 2200 persons to break even, depending on the number of paid staff, etc. I realize that is a wide range, but there are so many variables.

Many of the teams will give you a rough idea as to what thier annual budget is and what they need to break even if you ever get a chance to sit down with a staffer. From those I have talked to, I am guesstimating that $750,000 would be a median number for a normal year of operations. (Not a startup year) Anyone have any more info on that?

If a team enters things with a feasible plan, the SPHL is a very do-able hockey business, but the plan must be sound and there must be a business person as well as a hockey person involved. To emphasize that point, go back and list the SPHL cites that have had teams fail (often repeatedly)in other leagues.(generally more expensive ones)

The CHL and ECHL keep popping up on here. There are teams in those leagues that make good money. There are also some teams in those leagues that would kill to be in the SPHL financial model as opposed to the one they are in. In all honesty, the SPHL model makes more sense in many, if not most cases, which is why you are MUCH more likely to see teams (especially those in small ECHL/CHL markets) drift down as opposed to seeing teams from the SPHL set their sights on the ECHL. Keep in mind, however that part of that sound plan is to eliminate eternal bus trips and massive mileage. That will in fact keep the SPHL "Southern" Don't expect teams from too far away.

I continue to enjoy all the posts. Keep it up... tell a friend.
Dave

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Post by #1 Guard Fan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:19 pm

Well hopefully we will get a couple more teams this off season. I was hoping for a two divison league next year. We also need more teams in the league to stop a team with less than 20 wins making the playoffs. Come on help us out here

Mike4FireAntz34
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Post by Mike4FireAntz34 » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:17 am

#1 Guard Fan wrote:Well hopefully we will get a couple more teams this off season. I was hoping for a two divison league next year. We also need more teams in the league to stop a team with less than 20 wins making the playoffs. Come on help us out here
If they add 2 or 3 teams ...teams with less than 20 wins wont get in the playoffs.

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Post by #1 Guard Fan » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:17 pm

My whole point. If we have 10 or more teams we could have 2 divisions with the top 3 in each making the playoffs. I think that would cut out the teams with less then 20 wins. Plus 10 teams would be so great because they would still be in driving distance for the fams and thats grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat

adsco
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Good points, but:

Post by adsco » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:47 pm

KLM Line wrote:The Va team has drifted from about a 75% certainty to about a 90% certainty. Perhaps higher. Keep in mind that until they start skating nothing is certain, however things are going well. Lets just say that the powers that be think it's going to happen and they are working based on that assumption.

Regarding an earlier comment by someone; (I think it was RAMS) putting 1500 fannies in the seats generally will not allow even an SPHL team to break even, even if the organization is being well managed. By that I mean a team that has a full-time front office staff consisting of more than 1 or 2 full time employees. Excluding Pee Dee which has had so much staffing drama this year, it generally takes between 1800 and 2200 persons to break even, depending on the number of paid staff, etc. I realize that is a wide range, but there are so many variables.

Many of the teams will give you a rough idea as to what thier annual budget is and what they need to break even if you ever get a chance to sit down with a staffer. From those I have talked to, I am guesstimating that $750,000 would be a median number for a normal year of operations. (Not a startup year) Anyone have any more info on that?

If a team enters things with a feasible plan, the SPHL is a very do-able hockey business, but the plan must be sound and there must be a business person as well as a hockey person involved. To emphasize that point, go back and list the SPHL cites that have had teams fail (often repeatedly)in other leagues.(generally more expensive ones)

The CHL and ECHL keep popping up on here. There are teams in those leagues that make good money. There are also some teams in those leagues that would kill to be in the SPHL financial model as opposed to the one they are in. In all honesty, the SPHL model makes more sense in many, if not most cases, which is why you are MUCH more likely to see teams (especially those in small ECHL/CHL markets) drift down as opposed to seeing teams from the SPHL set their sights on the ECHL. Keep in mind, however that part of that sound plan is to eliminate eternal bus trips and massive mileage. That will in fact keep the SPHL "Southern" Don't expect teams from too far away.

I continue to enjoy all the posts. Keep it up... tell a friend.
Dave
I think most of the points you are making are quite good; but many arenas already have sales staff on hand to sell tickets for you on a "commission basis". Therefore it possible to operate on a budget of about 450-500K, (franchise fee excluded) assuming you have a favourable lease arrangement, and sales staff already in place.

You will incurr a 250K expenditure, before you even drop the puck, as there are many expenditures to be made "up front".

Also you don't neccassarily have to have a full time business person "on hand full time". So essentially, you can go with one full time coach, and a part time trainer, and a part time business person.

Often times your rent is based on full attendance at about .50 cents per seat. So if you've got an arena that holds 10,000 people and your only getting 2,200 you are behind the eight ball right off. Ideally, you don't really want or need an arena that holds more than 3,500 to 5,000 for an SPHL team.

According to my research there are approx. 2 areanas in the SPHL area that fill that bill. Responses invited: [email protected]
Last edited by adsco on Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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