What buisiness model work?

RevolutionX
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Post by RevolutionX » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:40 pm

[quote=""NatePreds05""]Single league entity model. (see new AFL, old af2)

All players and coaches are employees of the league and are paid by the league. League runs and manages insurance for all teams and players. Potential owners are screened and scrutinized prior to being let in.

Owners are responsible for their arena rent, marketing, etc.

Higher upfront costs for owners (for employee and insurance pay) but the league is stable. No folding, no replacement, players and coaches ALWAYS GET PAID and have insurance. Fans can go to a game confident that there's no replacement team or replacement players and that the game will happen as scheduled. If for some reason any owners fall into financial troubles the league pays all the bills for the rest of the season.[/quote]

Is this funded through league dues? I would think and it keeps "hobby owners" from defaulting on this. Now can this be modified to work with smaller teams. I think the major problem is the insurance and pay. What do any of these league provide for their teams. promotion of league in market cities? No. Footballs ? No Uniforms? No. What do these league provide for the teams except an account number to send money to? I see this as the best model, possibly modified for the smaller market. Teams incur all costs, even paying Officials, and these leagues just give them some letters to say who they represent, but again have to pay dues and all costs. Thats what seems wrong. League owners pay for what? except their own salaries and few cronies? What do league Officals actually do? Just seems teams pay alot in terms of dues and still have to pay for everything and leagues give nothing in terms of support.

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Post by jerry101jlh » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:45 pm

[quote=""BananaCat""]"I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because uh, some people out there in our nation don’t have maps and uh, I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, our education over here in the US should help the US, or, or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children."

I think the best option is smaller regional leagues during the regular season and then the champions of those meeting in the playoffs. Teams would only be admitted after qualified owners with investors were vetted. Teams paying in advance of the season for player pay to be distributed by the league. League shares marketing plan and how to get sponsors. Keys to success at this level are marketing, marketing, and more marketing. League must have a highly motivated marketing guru in charge. The more the league gets involved in bringing new teams up to speed on doing things right, the more success teams, and thereby the league, will have. Costs have to be kept down though. Most teams lose money hand over fist, keeping costs way down on only the essentials is the only way for a minor league sport like this to survive and flourish.[/quote]

Yes time again to bring up that indoor football needs an NCAA type governing organization with most of what league offices do now to run the shows, including insurance, payrolls, etc. If you took the approximate number of teams for 2012, 50 my guess, costs overall could be reduced by the higher numbers, better deals on insurance, etc. could be found.

But not ever going to happen as leagues will continue to do battle off the field, instead of cooperating.

NatePreds05
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Post by NatePreds05 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:29 pm

[quote=""gatek99""]where is the league supposed to get all that money? The teams have to pay the league that money upfront before the season?[/quote]

From what I understand the teams pay the money upfront. Like I said, high costs in the beginning but then the whole season owners don't have to worry about paying those salaries or insurance. Then you wouldn't have owners that think ticket receipts will cover payroll.

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Post by NatePreds05 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:39 pm

[quote=""RevolutionX""]Is this funded through league dues? I would think and it keeps "hobby owners" from defaulting on this. Now can this be modified to work with smaller teams. I think the major problem is the insurance and pay. What do any of these league provide for their teams. promotion of league in market cities? No. Footballs ? No Uniforms? No. What do these league provide for the teams except an account number to send money to? I see this as the best model, possibly modified for the smaller market. Teams incur all costs, even paying Officials, and these leagues just give them some letters to say who they represent, but again have to pay dues and all costs. Thats what seems wrong. League owners pay for what? except their own salaries and few cronies? What do league Officals actually do? Just seems teams pay alot in terms of dues and still have to pay for everything and leagues give nothing in terms of support.[/quote]

The league provides the rules and manages the officials. The league provides the footballs. The league secures agreements for uniforms, media coverage, sponsorships. The league handles emergency situations. The league manages all the salaries, payroll for teams, transactions, trades, attendance, stats, workers comp, etc etc.

And as for a league office filled with cronies padding salaries, the current AFL office is the commissioner and only 9 employees (http://www.arenafootball.com/content/office-staff).

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Post by NatePreds05 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:46 pm

[quote=""jerry101jlh""]and the cost for all this is???????????????????????????? Nobody will argue the old af2 model maybe the best, but most agree also too expensive for most at this level.[/quote]

I never said it was perfect, but it beats all the current and past indoor league models.

NO teams folding midseason
NO replacement teams or players
NO rescheduling
NO travel teams
NO unpaid players or coaches, and they get paid what they were told they would be paid (unlike IFL)
Entire schedule played
NO one without insurance
NO fly by night owners or scam artists, they don't even get in the door.

I don't know the details of the costs (I'm sure it could be adjusted appropriately) but it seems that single entity league model is the way to go. And while it may prevent some markets from getting in, it will also keep the probably underfunded from the get go teams from sinking in season.

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Post by Caballo Diablo » Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:46 pm

[quote=""jerry101jlh""]and the cost for all this is???????????????????????????? Nobody will argue the old af2 model maybe the best, but most agree also too expensive for most at this level.[/quote]In the last year of the af2 I knew teams that were spending $1.5 million.

This was small compared to the original AFL as they had teams losing upwards of $4 mil per year. Near the end losing $2 mil was a good year. The current AFL teams need to budget over $2 mil to compete and more to be a contender.

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Post by Pounder » Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:56 pm

When MLS started into single entity, it had investors for all teams. A couple were added two years down the line. By year 6, two teams folded and two men controlled 8 of the 10 remaining teams. When the system was tweaked, it involved giving investors more benefits from revenues. It could have easily fallen apart, but there was kind of a cause: improving US Soccer, both for its own sake and that of the national team. There were higher goals at stake. That invoked more sacrifice than an indoor football owner is inclined to feel.

I think a single entity model for indoor football could not come close to withstanding the egos involved.

I keep thinking the regional model is logical... but in practice, the flaw is obvious. There is no region where the competition is limited, the markets are similar, and the venues are updated. Regional models only serve to weed out the bad markets for the national models that, because they aren't regional, fail of their own accord.

I apologize for a lack of a positive answer. It's very hard to find one.
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jerry101jlh
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Post by jerry101jlh » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:19 pm

I'm not saying an af2 type set up bad, just that most teams in indoor football can't afford it. Yes, it could be tweaked to be less expensive, but many teams, even good quality ones, run on a week to week basis, depending in part on game receipts. Many could not afford to pay their league upfront or even say monthly players salaries and other costs. Keep in mind these fees due to the league before being due to players, etc. That has always been the major complaint by teams when the af2 model is brought up.

I did get the opportunity to see the new AIFA model this morning via their 2012 Team Information Package. It's a joke and way too much to post on here. I am not sure what planet Morris is living on, but it isn't planet Earth.

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The TRUTH
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correction ?

Post by The TRUTH » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 pm

[quote=""RevolutionX""]...We have all seen and heard all the shaddy , back door dealings, screwing people over, turining a blind eye to make a buck, using everyone to get rich business dealings of these league owners. Haines, Shriver, Morris, DePaul, Hagen, Bondo have practically destroyed the indoor game. How many leagues have failed. Dozens....[/quote]

Hey, REVX, we all know that Depaul dude is a real idiot, but I dont recall him ever running an indoor league. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, looks like you are missing about 10 other names that should be on that list, but not depaul. Let's be honest and fair.

And that's the TRUTH.

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...

Post by daytonadan » Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:44 pm

Hi Jim, how are you?
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