Red Barons to move to Allentown?

Odie
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Red Barons to move to Allentown?

Post by Odie » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:04 pm

A couple of weeks ago, The Philadelphia Daily News and WNEP-TV's website both had stories about the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons moving to Allentown, PA by the 2007 season. Evidently, a new stadium would be built in Allentown for the team. The Phillies bigwig in the minor league department said something to the effect of the Red Barons would not be in Lackawanna County in 2007. Also, it was rumored the Ottawa Lynx would re-locate to Lackawanna County Stadium, as the Orioles are not really happy with the way things are going in Ottawa.

My concerns are this: why would the Phillies want to move their top minor league affiliate to a city where the people didn't care about minor league baseball years ago (the independent Allentown Ambassadors)? What makes the Phillies think Allentown is going to care about the new team? I think there will be alot of people in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area that will be upset about this possible move. Even I disagree with astroturf, I liked going to Red Barons games when I lived in Wilkes-Barre. I love the location of the stadium and it would be a shame to not see minor league baseball in an area where the sport has been a fixture for the past 20 years...and beyond.

Allentown is the same city that took a shot at hosting a UHL hockey team a few years back. They ran out of money while building the arena! I'm not even sure if the foundation of the arena still exsists. How can Allentown think they will support a new minor league baseball team, a new stadium, etc, when they couldn't get a hockey arena built?

Sportsfan2005
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Post by Sportsfan2005 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:49 pm

Odie wrote:A couple of weeks ago, The Philadelphia Daily News and WNEP-TV's website both had stories about the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre Red Barons moving to Allentown, PA by the 2007 season. Evidently, a new stadium would be built in Allentown for the team. The Phillies bigwig in the minor league department said something to the effect of the Red Barons would not be in Lackawanna County in 2007. Also, it was rumored the Ottawa Lynx would re-locate to Lackawanna County Stadium, as the Orioles are not really happy with the way things are going in Ottawa.

My concerns are this: why would the Phillies want to move their top minor league affiliate to a city where the people didn't care about minor league baseball years ago (the independent Allentown Ambassadors)? What makes the Phillies think Allentown is going to care about the new team? I think there will be alot of people in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area that will be upset about this possible move. Even I disagree with astroturf, I liked going to Red Barons games when I lived in Wilkes-Barre. I love the location of the stadium and it would be a shame to not see minor league baseball in an area where the sport has been a fixture for the past 20 years...and beyond.

Allentown is the same city that took a shot at hosting a UHL hockey team a few years back. They ran out of money while building the arena! I'm not even sure if the foundation of the arena still exsists. How can Allentown think they will support a new minor league baseball team, a new stadium, etc, when they couldn't get a hockey arena built?

The o's have no say if ottawa stays or moves they do not own theem.It is not a given ottawa will move anyways fans support or no fan supprt this year.The have a lease a with the city of ottawa untill 2009 a lease that would not be worth it to break it to anyone.There are trying to rework the lease where it just has to be a pro team not triple a.If the city does go for this the next step would be for another team be granted to ottawa before the ok would be given for the lynx to move.This is far from cut and dry.

Liebo
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Ok...

Post by Liebo » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:40 pm

The proposed scenario is this: The ownership group in Allentown would purchase the Ottawa Lynx franchise and move it to the new park in Allentown. The agreement would presumably be hammered out this coming season in time to open the new park in 2007. Since the Phillies affiliation with Scranton/Wilkes-Barre runs out this coming season, as does Ottawa's agreement with the Orioles, it is further presumed that the Phillies and Ottawa/Allentown would file the necessary papers to be able to explore a new affiliation. (This takes place at the end of August.) The two parties would then be free to sign an affiliation that would bring Philadelphia's top prospects to Allentown. The Red Barons and Orioles would also be free to negotiate an affiliation with any other clubs that are pursuing new relationships, which does not necessarily mean the Orioles would end up in S/W-B.

Why would the Phillies want to be in Allentown? First, ignore whatever economic issues you feel might be in play, such as those that might have hindered the arena's construction. Whether the Allentown team is a boom or a bust is not a primary concern to the Phillies. Instead, their players get to play in a brand new facility, with new player amenities like clubhouses and hitting tunnels. Plus, they are that much closer to Philadelphia for player call-ups and for executives to take a look at prospects and injury rehabs.

As to your concern that Allentown didn't support the Ambassadors, so they probably wouldn't support the new team, I don't exactly agree with that contention. Being a Triple-A affiliate of the major league team that most people in the area are fans of bodes well for immediate credibility and support. A new ballpark with all of its fan-friendly amenities is also likely to be an attraction. On the other hand, the Ambassadors were an independent team--not that I have a problem with that, having run indy teams myself. But it can be a roadblock to marketing the team, if the organization lets it. And the Ambassadors played at Bi-Centennial Park, a facility with an uncovered seating area, lots of wooden benches, and which looked like it was built earlier than it actually was, in 1976. Again, having worked in much older parks, I don't have a problem with that, but unless marketed properly it can be an issue with casual fans. And nowadays you need more to succeed that just the die-hards; you need casual fans, friends, co-workers, and groups. A new park in Allentown, with the Triple-A affiliation of the nearby Phillies, is a cause for optimism.

Finally, I wouldn't judge the prospects of a new affiliated team in a new ballpark based on the results of an indy team playing in an older or lesser facility. The Mobile BayBears seem to have made a very good living despite the downfall of the Mobile Bay Sharks. The Corpus Christi Hooks are doing well even though the Coastal Bend Aviators are struggling. The Mississippi Braves had a very successful season in their new park in Pearl, even though the Double-A Generals had departed several years ago and the independent Senators were not lighting up the night in nearby Jackson. Even though indy baseball failed the Montgomery Wings, who by all accounts were the best-supported team in their leagues, fans were not discouraged with the arrival of the Montgomery Biscuits. Even though the nearby Springfield-Ozark Mountain Ducks failed in two indy leagues, it did not dissuade fans from coming out in droves when the Springfield Cardinals came to town in 2005. After the demise of the Double-A Albany Yankees and the indy Diamond Dogs, fans have still made a respectable showing at the Tri-City ValleyCats in nearby Troy.

The above are markets that I was able to determine have or had an indy team in town or in the immediate vicinity, but now have an affiliated team playing in a new ballpark. (This is precisely the scenario you are arguing is a reason to expect very little from a new team and a new park in Allentown.) As you can see, all of the teams listed are doing at the very least well, if not downright splendidly. So I wouldn't dismiss the new team in Allentown just yet.

Sportsfan2005
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Post by Sportsfan2005 » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:53 pm

There are still alot of if's around ottawa.If the fans step up the team will remain in ottawa.The jays have said they would like to be involved with ottawa meaning they want out of syracuse.Now if the fans don't step up certain things have to take place.

1)The lease has to be re worked so a minor league team could move in does not have to be triple a.

2)A minor league team has to be granted to ottawa.

chucknorris
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Post by chucknorris » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:47 pm

The Ambassadors didn't get any support for a few reasons, none of which I think were dissinterest in minor league baseball.

Their field was a shambles.Their wall was about 200ft out and outfields played on the warning track (and from what I hear, played most fly balls off the 20+ foot high wall).

That experience soured the town to independent baseball, but the consensus in the region is:
AAA good, Indy bad.

There's high prospects that an affiliated team would get support in the town. I didn't follow it too closely, but there was a deal on the table that the state (Gov. Ed Rendell, a huge sports fan) would help finance a stadium in Allentown if they could secure AAA level affiliation. The deal gave ZERO money if the incoming team was independent, which locked out the Atlantic and Can-Am Leagues, both of which looked at Allentown as an unpolished prize.

An independent team was supposed to move into Easton, PA which I believe is up in the same region. It was up on a hill side in the middle of nowhere, and financing ran out before construction was completed.

lostinmacungie
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Post by lostinmacungie » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:37 pm

I was looking for information about when the phils were moving to allentown, and I stumbled on the site. As a lifelong A-town area resident, we are absorbed into the greater metropolitan area of Philadelphia. We have a population of about 700,000 (Lehigh Valley - Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton) and are limited in the ability of attaining minor league teams, and even major network television affiliates because of our proximity to Philadelphia (by comparison Pittsburgh city has about 350,000 -- probably about the same as lehigh valley with the surrounding area) Back in the 90's Bill Giles (Phil's GM) said that no affiliated minor league franchise would ever play in the valley. He was concerned with fans not making the trip to Phila to see the big phils. I think it's about time to get affiliated basewball back in the valley. We are the fastest growing metropolitan area in the state -- we are experiencing an influx of residents from north jersey and suburban philadelphia. Our home prices are skyrocketing (10% increase every year for an average home price of 240,000 -- 440,000 for new construction) so the influx of people has also brought money. Why else are retailers like LL Bean building new stores here? Why did Olympus America relocate their North American headquarters here -- from long Island i might add.

As far as the other failed minor league teams- all for one reason or another did not have the whole package. The arena for hockey showed great promise, they even hired Dave "the Hammer" Shultz from the Flyers as their head coach. They didn't run out of money building the arena - as a previous poster said- Allentown has lots of underground caverns which generate sinkholes, and to repair so an arena could be built would have been too expensive, and politics made it difficult for the builders to find a new site. (BTW PPL built a new building on that site right next to their headquarters tower - they had the money to fix it) It all comes down to money. The Phillies see more in the valley - plain and simple. And a new arena to go with it.

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