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Sam Hill
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Post by Sam Hill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:56 pm

Show me the semi-pro football teams that get 6k every week.

Then let me show you the myriad of leagues that have played with players with better pedigrees than those guys who play for $25 a game for the Oakland County Racers who lose money like no one's business.

You cannot get 6-10k a game for a league of not-good-enough players without losing tons of money, as the UFL and everybody else have shown.

No, there is no way for this to work. There is no amount of marketing, no amount of niche-exploiting. It can't be done.

People like you are going to continue to say it can be done, even though it isn't being done and never will be done.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.

Renandpat
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Post by Renandpat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:52 pm

[quote=""Sam Hill""]Show me the semi-pro football teams that get 6k every week.

Then let me show you the myriad of leagues that have played with players with better pedigrees than those guys who play for $25 a game for the Oakland County Racers who lose money like no one's business.

You cannot get 6-10k a game for a league of not-good-enough players without losing tons of money, as the UFL and everybody else have shown.

No, there is no way for this to work. There is no amount of marketing, no amount of niche-exploiting. It can't be done.

[/quote]
When your main or only source of revenue for a football "league" is the tryout fees which marks and rubes willingly give them, your business plan is neither sustainable nor realistic.

suge night
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Post by suge night » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:06 am

Sam, in 2014 the semi pro Wichita Falls Nighthawks drew 10,000 and averaged around 6,000 per game.

This evidence (fact)again takes away your opinion, now you will again offer your opinion that it can't be done long term when again you've been shown it is possible. Because your opinion states that nobody is going to attend, now operating without knowing really how too is the downfall of these type of teams, when lady luck has fell right into line for a successful run.

Renandpat-When your main or only source of revenue for a football "league" is the tryout fees which marks and rubes willingly give them, your business plan is neither sustainable nor realistic.

Lets do a little math if you simply charge $10 per ticket =$60,000x5 games is $300,000 now knowing what to do with that cash semi pro owners who have no sports business sense go belly up, even though junior hockey teams operate quite well within this space.

At $15=$90,000x5=$450,000

Your opinion is respected, but the evidence is clear that such a proposed well structured operation can be successful and as someone else stated.
If the plan was developed for long term it could become a very viable entity.
Last edited by suge night on Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Renandpat
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Post by Renandpat » Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:50 am

[quote=""suge night""]Sam, in 2014 the semi pro Wichita Falls Nighthawks drew 10,000 and averaged around 6,000 per game.

This evidence (fact)again takes away your opinion, now you will again offer your opinion that it can't be done long term when again you've been shown it is possible. Because your opinion states that nobody is going to attend, now operating without knowing really how too is the downfall of these type of teams, when lady luck has fell right into line for a successful run.

Renandpat-When your main or only source of revenue for a football "league" is the tryout fees which marks and rubes willingly give them, your business plan is neither sustainable nor realistic.

Lets do a little math if you simply charge $10 per ticket =$60,000x5 games is $300,000 now knowing what to do with that cash semi pro owners who have no sports business sense go belly up, even though junior hockey teams operate quite well within this space.

At $15=$90,000x5=$450,000

Your opinion is respected, but the evidence is clear that such a proposed well structured operation can be successful and as someone else stated.
If the plan was developed for long term it could become a very viable entity.[/quote]

Why did Wichita Falls suspend operations in 2014???
http://newstalk1290.com/wichita-falls-n ... son-short/

Smoke and mirrors Mother F*Cker!!!! Smoke and Mirrors!!!
The Wichita Falls Nighthawks minor league football team has collapsed and forfeited the rest of their 2014 season in the Gridiron Developmental Football League (GDFL). The announcement was posted on the team’s Facebook page Friday afternoon (7/1 8) citing financial hardship as the main reason for the ending of the organization.

Things began to fall apart for the team when in-game contests and giveaways were questioned to be rigged. Some people claimed that the organization misled fans when they offered a CHANCE at $1,000,000 during halftime of the first game. None of the randomly selected fans drew the million dollar ticket on the field that night. Public relations got worse when the same fans that won a team emblazoned Dodge Challenger in the first year, again won a vehicle, this time a Jeep 4×4. Screams of collusion were cried throughout the town and on social media.


suge night
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Post by suge night » Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:35 pm

You have to pick your opinion (argument) you stated it couldn't be done all I''ve submitted is evidence to the contrary.

You (Renandpat) said it was impossible,sure they folded but that wasn't the base of your opinion you said it couldn't be (done) because no one would attend.

I have already stated if the model is flawed the results aren't long term, but that if the right concept was produced it is very possible for a alt league to thrive.

Once you have been cornered your opinion doesn't stay the course of its original discourse. :)
You have moved all over the place (if we were playing chess you have been out flanked)

In politics this is known as a flip flopper :rolleyes:

P.S. it's not that serious, you've moved to profanity to make your (opinion)argument appear to have some type of value not judging but I think you're bigger than that.

It's fine to have a differing opinion.
Last edited by suge night on Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:52 am, edited 6 times in total.

robster2001
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Post by robster2001 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:04 pm

The question that "new league" supporters have a problem answering is this... where does it fit in a crowded sports landscape?

You want top level football? Sure, and the NFL is 365/24 entity these days.

You want mid-level football? 120+ FBS schools are waiting.

You want local interest? High school football is huge in some places.

Which of those pockets are you expecting to take money out of? That is the question that has never been answered on a significant scale.

If there is an answer, and if someone finds it, maybe a new league will work. I just don't know that there's an answer, especially as we're on the verge of disposable income dropping for many people...

suge night
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Post by suge night » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:44 am

Commentary. Know your strengths, vulnerabilities, and opportunities. Knowledge of your organization's strengths, vulnerabilities, and opportunities for improvement and growth is essential to its success and sustainability.

Good question, but you also answered your own question, you are speaking in terms of the nfl not having a development league of its own. You can check attendance numbers in any of those sports, that operate in markets you mention, if you were to use an old model which I have already discussed then you have a point but if instead the motto is (No country for old men) not in literal sense.

Simply look at baseball,hockey and basketball all have college level play under them. But they all have development leagues affiliated and non-affiliation
We know that talent supposedly is only found through the colleges (yeah right) ;)

So in that regard you have your requested answer, all those sports have a crowded landscape and yet they exist with its own fan base there's no question unanswered. (You can never wake a man pretending to be asleep,just like facts and rational voices can never be heard by deaf ears) :cool:
Last edited by suge night on Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:02 am, edited 3 times in total.

nksports
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Post by nksports » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:22 pm

[quote=""suge night""]We know that talent supposedly is only found through the colleges (yeah right) ;) [/quote]

Yes, there is probably talent in places other than college, but in today's culture, none of those outlets are averaging over 100,000 a game like they do in Michigan or at Ohio State. Other top teams are drawing well over 50,000 a game.

Most minor league football outlets are lucky to draw 2,000 a game. 3,000 a game is a successful indoor entity.
No one has been able to find a way to draw numbers to keep a minor league football league in business since the Ohio Football League and the Pennsylvania Football League in the 1910s and 20s, and those leagues led to the foundation of the APFA, which led to the NFL.

suge night
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Post by suge night » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:37 am

NKSports, you're correct but the development level has no expectations of getting 100,000 people to a game, and a well known fact in regards to college game attendance a lot of students are piped in for the look. (The nfl doesn't draw 100,000 itself, the Chargers are barely drawing 20,000)

The NCAA allows what could be called fake attendance numbers to assist the TV broadcast, remember they have a required number for attendance for bowl level school's,those numbers are attained by using students.

Recall that Alabama was complaining and calling out it students for not attending or leaving early leaving empty seats for TV.

The average attendance for Triple A baseball is around 6,000 some slightly higher some lower of course the MLB club is propping the club up,this same thing happens in other sports where the wizard is behind the curtain.

3,000 is a great starting point its not necessary for the football to start at large numbers especially if they are not using the repeated broken model or attempting to rebuild a new version of the nfl.
Last edited by suge night on Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

4th&long
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Post by 4th&long » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:14 am

[quote=""suge night""]NKSports, you're correct but the development level has no expectations of getting 100,000 people to a game, and a well known fact in regards to college game attendance a lot of students are piped in for the look.

The NCAA allows what could be called fake attendance numbers to assist the TV broadcast, remember they have a required number for attendance for bowl level school's,those numbers are attained by using students.

Recall that Alabama was complaining and calling out it students for not attending or leaving early leaving empty seats for TV.

The average attendance for Triple A baseball is around 6,000 some slightly higher some lower of course the MLB club is propping the club up,this same thing happens in other sports where the wizard is behind the curtain.

3,000 is a great starting point its not necessary for the football to start at large numbers especially if they are not using the repeated broken model or attempting to rebuild a new version of the nfl.[/quote]

good post, it is possible

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