NFL Europe/Europa

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Sam Hill
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Post by Sam Hill » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:13 am

[quote=""4th&long""]PacPro looks like real deal.[/quote]

You think EVERYTHING that comes along is "the real deal."

Tell me again what makes this half-assed concept "the real deal."

Who is going to go watch kids just out of high school play for the Oxnard Oxen? There aren't enough hardcore nerds. There just aren't.

When this fails, you'll move on to the next one and tout that as "the real deal."
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.

suge night
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Post by suge night » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:18 am

People nod their heads and parrot each others' thoughts, but they never seem to be able to tell you exactly why. (Sam)

First,thanks for the response but most of what you offered is in support of the material fact's I stated.

The argument you make for the concept not being profitable, you answered with support for my argument, you laid out the the format if the nfl were going to be the creator of the development program and be profitable use the baseball model, I offered the marketing strategy for fan support.

Indy baseball model is a bad example those teams lose a million a season, their own commissioner said its a money pit model. Affiliated would easily be supported.

You offered support a failing nfl developing talent,and in some situations not even knowing what it is by its own standard.

We already know the nfl has only 12 decent QB's by the same token only 12 real professional teams,the others are strictly for entertainment purposes.

I offered the material facts surrounding the failure to develop the backup QB and the format to fix that by drafting strictly for that, instead of the bull about this guy being a starter, Miami has shown that is wrong, but what did we just witness again a QB with limited experience at the position drafted 1st round that they will fail to develop. Because he is a backup, a lot of the problem for the nfl being the creator of such a league is within the union it will have to clear it for it happen, so this will need to come from an outside source, and Brain Woods is not that source.

You offered little in respect of an argument, you gave a lot of perhaps but not against I gave you actual situation material, the practice squad failure is within control of the nfl and yet they fail, but as evidence shows will still turn right around and draft that very same position player they have failed to develop in house, you stated well he might not get it until he turns 27 yrs old, but if they know talent they control the address so they have a large pool of other talent of which to bring in and start over, but as you stated they recycle what some other team could not develop, that only works if you have a specific roll for that talent in your system. They fail to comprehend that thought. Other sports have situation players most teams in the nfl hate this type of opportunity, but the Pats figured it out and play as if they have a 6 man, a second line (hockey reference) or a closer or DH, the rest of the bone head league operates from just the starters, the Falcons were exposed using that early 1900's game system.

I'm not blindly thinking a development league is out there, I do understand that it is very possible to create such an animal even without the help of the nfl and that one will come to prove it is within reason a possible venture, and it will not be easy but its very possible.

Since it is a development league it doesn't have to be profitable, especially within the first 5 yrs. It simply can't be operated as if it is the nfl.
Last edited by suge night on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sam Hill
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Post by Sam Hill » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:05 pm

[quote=""suge night""]People nod their heads and parrot each others' thoughts, but they never seem to be able to tell you exactly why. (Sam)

First,thanks for the response but most of what you offered is in support of the material fact's I stated.[/quote]

No, it really isn't.

The argument you make for the concept not being profitable, you answered with support for my argument, you laid out the the format if the nfl were going to be the creator of the development program and be profitable use the baseball model, I offered the marketing strategy for fan support.
That isn't profitability. That's the NFL propping it up. Not the same thing.

No developmental league can stand on its own and be profitable. No alternative league can stand on its own and be profitable. The difference is that a league funded by the NFL can last as long as the NFL's largesse allows it. That does not mean it will take in more revenue than it expends. Because it won't.

Because people will sell out the barn to watch the actual Indianapolis Colts. They won't sell out Broad Ripple High School to watch the Indianapolis Foals.
Indy baseball model is a bad example those teams lose a million a season, their own commissioner said its a money pit model.
There is no commissioner of independent minor league baseball. There are disparate leagues.

And if they're losing so much money, how come they're still around?
Affiliated would easily be supported.
Nope.
You offered little in respect of an argument, you gave a lot of perhaps but not against I gave you actual situation material, the practice squad failure is within control of the nfl and yet they fail,
Do they fail, or is it an impossible task?

Is it possible that there is a large group of humans who - while perfectly capable of playing at the Division I college level - are simply not ever going to be NFL caliber players? Yes, some slip through the cracks and find the right opportunity and have careers.

But if a guy is on an NFL practice squad and doesn't develop to the point where he can help that NFL team or another, is that the failure of the practice squad system or the players as individuals?

How many guys did the last alternative league that played more than a handful of games "develop?"

No matter how many ways you slice the kumquat, there is still the unfortunate reality that these players are not good enough (it's a high bar) and are never going to BE good enough, no matter if you put them through a season playing against other not-good-enough guys or have them practice every day against actual NFL veterans.
but as evidence shows will still turn right around and draft that very same position player they have failed to develop in house,
With an average of 7 head coaching vacancies filled in the NFL every year going back the last 30 years, the league basically turns over every five years, or just slightly above the average career lifespan. It's not always the same people drafting "that very same position player."

What, exactly, would you have them do? A guy doesn't develop, what should they do, exactly? Where's the talent source? Oh, right, the draft. Do you expect them to say "Well, we drafted that guy from Tennessee and it turned out he couldn't play, so I guess we won't draft anymore. We'll just sit out the draft this year and give our scouts some time off." Really?
you stated well he might not get it until he turns 27 yrs old, but if they know talent they control the address so they have a large pool of other talent of which to bring in and start over, but as you stated they recycle what some other team could not develop, that only works if you have a specific roll for that talent in your system.
Another word salad.
I'm not blindly thinking a development league is out there, I do understand that it is very possible to create such an animal even without the help of the nfl and that one will come to prove it is within reason a possible venture, and it will not be easy but its very possible.
Nope. Not possible.

Seriously, how many leagues have to try and fail before people like you give up the frigging "it's very possible" mantra? It's not possible. It hasn't happened. It won't happen, because, again:
  • Football is expensive
  • The supposed amazingly deep pool of potential players is filled with guys who simply are not NFL caliber and the vast majority of them will never be
  • You can't get people to consistently pay to watch guys who aren't good enough, to whom they don't have an emotional attachment, playing on teams with no history and no generational awareness. Therefore,
  • You can't make the numbers work, because
  • You'll spend way more than you take in
Since it is a development league it doesn't have to be profitable, especially within the first 5 yrs. It simply can't be operated as if it is the nfl.
Yeah, it really does. Things that aren't profitable that aren't run as vanity projects don't last.

It DOES have to be profitable and NO ONE has put five years into an alternative football league since the AFL of the 1960s. No one.

It's not a charity. The cause of developing backup left tackles is not good enough to keep throwing money at, even if you have a lot of it.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.

suge night
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Post by suge night » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:17 am

First this bit of information.

There is no commissioner of independent minor league baseball. There are disparate leagues.

And if they're losing so much money, how come they're still around? (Sam)

Miles Wolff is the commissioner of the American Association and Atlantic League both indy leagues.

(B) The reason they are still around is simple there's a sucker still born everyday! Laredo just folded after three season's of losing more than $3 million plus, the commissioner in a 2015 Wall Street Journal interview stated that owners in the league should own other businesses in order to under write the team and that he doubted that any of the teams were profitable.

Yet the league ask for and get $1 million to get in,and as I stated the suckers still line up,the renewal fee after each season is $100,000 but it was stated as being slightly more by an owner in Wichita Ks.

Indoor football wish it could ask for that kind of cash from ownership.

Just last week the Texas Airhogs had an attendance of 650, imagine that red ink there is no way the owner can make that conversation interesting if you were asking why own that hole in the ground.

On the development football it should be built bottom up, you are hung up on the nfl model being the way to build the concept,that is wrong and as you have mentioned those who have used that model have continued to fail.

It's possible and will probably happen within the next few years, look forward in the thinking of how it could be developed,the nfl model is a dead horse and shouldn't be followed to develop a training league one must remember the nfl is only big because it just happened to fall into TV money thanks for answering. :cool:
Last edited by suge night on Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

nksports
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Post by nksports » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:42 am

[quote=""suge night""]Miles Wolff is the commissioner of the American Association and Atlantic League both indy leagues.[/quote]
Actually he's AA and Can-Am. The Atlantic has its own front office.

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