What drives investors into an alternate or minor FB league...
along with the ego to desire owning a FB league
-Potential value gains
-unaffordability of NFL teams
-operating profit
The 2016 NFL values (per Forbes) range from $4.2b to $1.5b, even a fraction of that - say 1% would fall in the $42-15m range; but if successful likely more than that
http://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/#5802af5d46cb
Minor League BB teams are in similar range
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/gkle45ff ... 1047206e3b
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebn ... 5ab88f50a1
Sports Team valuations
Sports Team valuations
Last edited by 4th&long on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
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suge night
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here's the thing there is no comparing these values.First only minor league affiliated organizations reach values of 5 mill upwards and of those baseball,hockey and now basketball are in that conversation.
Because the bills are paid by even deeper pockets, independent baseball teams lose around a mill a season this according to the leagues commissioner who suggested that if you own one you had to support those losses through your other businesses.
As of this era no arena team is worth a million and the indoor teams for the $250 k they spend conducting a season the number is lower than the out put if you were buying one, now (C.E.A.) cost effectiveness analysis will tell you for the line of credit these indoor leagues ask against your entrance into the league value is out of line with the market value of the team and the league itself.
Can a minor league organization have value? yes but it will take a lot of out of box thought and C.B.A. cost benefit analysis of which many of these organizations don't take into consideration simply look at the model they use .
[quote=""dmbishop""]The next non-NFL team to turn a profit will be the FIRST non-NFL team to turn a profit.
That's like saying I should develop a new computer operating system because Microsoft is worth $484 billion. If I can be 1% as successful as they are, I'll be worth $4,840,000,000.
Life don't work that way.
Dave[/quote]
Of course it doesnt. but the valuations of the NFL teams and MiLB do provide a reference point to compare against.
4th
That's like saying I should develop a new computer operating system because Microsoft is worth $484 billion. If I can be 1% as successful as they are, I'll be worth $4,840,000,000.
Life don't work that way.
Dave[/quote]
Of course it doesnt. but the valuations of the NFL teams and MiLB do provide a reference point to compare against.
4th
[quote=""suge night""] here's the thing there is no comparing these values.
First only minor league affiliated organizations reach values of 5 mill upwards and of those baseball,hockey and now basketball are in that conversation.
Because the bills are paid by even deeper pockets, independent baseball teams lose around a mill a season this according to the leagues commissioner who suggested that if you own one you had to support those losses through your other businesses.
As of this era no arena team is worth a million and the indoor teams for the $250 k they spend conducting a season the number is lower than the out put if you were buying one, now (C.E.A.) cost effectiveness analysis will tell you for the line of credit these indoor leagues ask against your entrance into the league value is out of line with the market value of the team and the league itself.
Can a minor league organization have value? yes but it will take a lot of out of box thought and C.B.A. cost benefit analysis of which many of these organizations don't take into consideration simply look at the model they use .[/quote]
Yes to have a good valuation you will need to have operating income or high growth - they will need TV revenue in lieu of cost subsidies or some balance.
Indoor FB will not have the appeal of outdoor FB - its not a 'real sport' rather a derivative of one. AFL's new approach is to, to your point, leverage existing organizations of exiting NHL or NBA teams to in essence cost subsidize the AFL team. Its a gamble - and that's why the AFL is down to 5 teams. Though it may work.
4th
here's the thing there is no comparing these values.First only minor league affiliated organizations reach values of 5 mill upwards and of those baseball,hockey and now basketball are in that conversation.
Because the bills are paid by even deeper pockets, independent baseball teams lose around a mill a season this according to the leagues commissioner who suggested that if you own one you had to support those losses through your other businesses.
As of this era no arena team is worth a million and the indoor teams for the $250 k they spend conducting a season the number is lower than the out put if you were buying one, now (C.E.A.) cost effectiveness analysis will tell you for the line of credit these indoor leagues ask against your entrance into the league value is out of line with the market value of the team and the league itself.
Can a minor league organization have value? yes but it will take a lot of out of box thought and C.B.A. cost benefit analysis of which many of these organizations don't take into consideration simply look at the model they use .[/quote]
Yes to have a good valuation you will need to have operating income or high growth - they will need TV revenue in lieu of cost subsidies or some balance.
Indoor FB will not have the appeal of outdoor FB - its not a 'real sport' rather a derivative of one. AFL's new approach is to, to your point, leverage existing organizations of exiting NHL or NBA teams to in essence cost subsidize the AFL team. Its a gamble - and that's why the AFL is down to 5 teams. Though it may work.
4th
What ego boost is to be gained by losing your butt in an embarrassing alternative football league?
What profit?
And, yes, NFL teams are unaffordable to buy en toto. But if you want to invest in an NFL team, somebody will sell you a bit of theirs.
And, as Dave alludes to, you ain't going to be 1% as successful as an NFL team.
More than theoretical franchise valuation, how about actual sales of alternative football teams? When was the last one sold? Back in the 80s, in the USFL? Has anyone bought a UFL or FXFL team from its original owner?
What profit?
And, yes, NFL teams are unaffordable to buy en toto. But if you want to invest in an NFL team, somebody will sell you a bit of theirs.
And, as Dave alludes to, you ain't going to be 1% as successful as an NFL team.
More than theoretical franchise valuation, how about actual sales of alternative football teams? When was the last one sold? Back in the 80s, in the USFL? Has anyone bought a UFL or FXFL team from its original owner?
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Valuations
Valuation of the property is the ultimate goal in any business endeavor.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/19/nfl- ... 2017-draft
>>“The barrier to owning an NFL team is huge, but there’s no shortage of people in Southern California, with economic means, who would love to own a football team,” Steinberg says. “I’d imagine there would be great interest.”<<
FYI - Longtime agent Leigh Steinberg
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/19/nfl- ... 2017-draft
>>“The barrier to owning an NFL team is huge, but there’s no shortage of people in Southern California, with economic means, who would love to own a football team,” Steinberg says. “I’d imagine there would be great interest.”<<
FYI - Longtime agent Leigh Steinberg
Last edited by 4th&long on Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nksports
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Given the failure rate of indoor, arena and non-NFL pro outdoor football teams, I would argue that the valuations of the teams are often negative. Five years ago, some AFL teams might have had value, but that is probably gone. When you buy any of these types of teams these days from a previous owner, you are likely buying their debt as well. That means even more money down the hole. It's often cheaper to let a team fail and buy an expansion franchise (you can often get equipment for these teams at a cut rate just by buying from a team that goes belly up).
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suge night
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NK, point well taken I have been in this position before so this will be from experience I was in conversation to buy a team that was up for sell.
As we started the process my biggest concern was the amount of debt the organization had on the books,from arena payments past due to vendors still owed money. That amount was almost as much as the asking price which made the deal not worth the investment. So I guess my point would be one of balance from even the value of the league itself verses that of its members do either have any value.
The equipment lose value and the league nor teams gain any value,unless you own the arena and in my opinion can only gain value through a system organizational shift designed levels ratings of leagues (AAA) etc.,but this can't happen because my leagues better than yours and we have 15 teams compared to your 8 etc. the nonsense goes on and on. This is subjective opinion lets hear what others may have....
As we started the process my biggest concern was the amount of debt the organization had on the books,from arena payments past due to vendors still owed money. That amount was almost as much as the asking price which made the deal not worth the investment. So I guess my point would be one of balance from even the value of the league itself verses that of its members do either have any value.
The equipment lose value and the league nor teams gain any value,unless you own the arena and in my opinion can only gain value through a system organizational shift designed levels ratings of leagues (AAA) etc.,but this can't happen because my leagues better than yours and we have 15 teams compared to your 8 etc. the nonsense goes on and on. This is subjective opinion lets hear what others may have....
Last edited by suge night on Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[quote=""suge night""]NK, point well taken I have been in this position before so this will be from experience I was in conversation to buy a team that was up for sell.
As we started the process my biggest concern was the amount of debt the organization had on the books,from arena payments past due to vendors still owed money. That amount was almost as much as the asking price which made the deal not worth the investment. So I guess my point would be one of balance from even the value of the league itself verses that of its members do either have any value.
The equipment lose value and the league nor teams gain any value,unless you own the arena and in my opinion can only gain value through a system organizational shift designed levels ratings of leagues (AAA) etc.,but this can't happen because my leagues better than yours and we have 15 teams compared to your 8 etc. the nonsense goes on and on. This is subjective opinion lets hear what others may have....[/quote]
Why not buy the assets of the team including branding and leave the debts with the old company?
This is a more common practice.
4th
As we started the process my biggest concern was the amount of debt the organization had on the books,from arena payments past due to vendors still owed money. That amount was almost as much as the asking price which made the deal not worth the investment. So I guess my point would be one of balance from even the value of the league itself verses that of its members do either have any value.
The equipment lose value and the league nor teams gain any value,unless you own the arena and in my opinion can only gain value through a system organizational shift designed levels ratings of leagues (AAA) etc.,but this can't happen because my leagues better than yours and we have 15 teams compared to your 8 etc. the nonsense goes on and on. This is subjective opinion lets hear what others may have....[/quote]
Why not buy the assets of the team including branding and leave the debts with the old company?
This is a more common practice.
4th
