[quote=""Pounder""]A group of people who've witnessed one heck of a lot of things shouldn't deny that such things have happened. EVER. Especially now.[/quote]
I certainly hope they do learn from these attempts, both those successful and not. That's smart business - but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
4th
PPFL and potential TV rating
[quote=""4th&long""]That's your opinion, and I don't agree with it.
but we are talking a fraction of a fraction to gt a tv contract. MLS after all its hype and money is avg roughly 250k on espn.
A properly marketed league will be able to get similar #s, FB blows soccer out of the water in USA popularity wise[/quote]
I'd love to see your plan for "properly marketing" such a league.
People will watch a one-off game featuring the best high school players in the country who are committed to schools they know and care about.
Now, watching 19 year olds who have decided they would rather play for $50,000 a year (good luck) in front of nobody rather than play for Michigan or Ohio State is another story.
(Plus, the guys this supposed league would get would not likely be guys who Ohio State would be clamoring for. And, to be quite honest, they're going to be guys who aren't worth $50,000, either.)
19 year olds are compelling when their helmets and jerseys are from schools people care about and have a connection to. When those helmets and jerseys represent the Ontario Otters or Rancho Cucamonga Rawhides, good frigging luck.
You have this thing about "football" being the be-all, end-all, blow everything out of the water phenomenon. It's the NFL that they care about. It's major college football that they care about. Not "watching guys develop," not "any old football" and no amount of "properly marketing" a league of 19 year olds playing against other 19 years olds is going to make it compelling television on a week-to-week basis.
but we are talking a fraction of a fraction to gt a tv contract. MLS after all its hype and money is avg roughly 250k on espn.
A properly marketed league will be able to get similar #s, FB blows soccer out of the water in USA popularity wise[/quote]
I'd love to see your plan for "properly marketing" such a league.
People will watch a one-off game featuring the best high school players in the country who are committed to schools they know and care about.
Now, watching 19 year olds who have decided they would rather play for $50,000 a year (good luck) in front of nobody rather than play for Michigan or Ohio State is another story.
(Plus, the guys this supposed league would get would not likely be guys who Ohio State would be clamoring for. And, to be quite honest, they're going to be guys who aren't worth $50,000, either.)
19 year olds are compelling when their helmets and jerseys are from schools people care about and have a connection to. When those helmets and jerseys represent the Ontario Otters or Rancho Cucamonga Rawhides, good frigging luck.
You have this thing about "football" being the be-all, end-all, blow everything out of the water phenomenon. It's the NFL that they care about. It's major college football that they care about. Not "watching guys develop," not "any old football" and no amount of "properly marketing" a league of 19 year olds playing against other 19 years olds is going to make it compelling television on a week-to-week basis.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""4th&long""]Football is gold in America[/quote]
Which is why every single league that isn't the NFL (with the exception of the AFL and, going farther back, the AAFC, which was also failing) has failed.
Again, it's not "football" that's gold. It's the NFL. I wish you'd get that through your ****ing head.
Which is why every single league that isn't the NFL (with the exception of the AFL and, going farther back, the AAFC, which was also failing) has failed.
Again, it's not "football" that's gold. It's the NFL. I wish you'd get that through your ****ing head.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""LordBy2014""]I think an alternative football league could succeed and make money - just not in the short term - too many upfront costs associated with getting a league off the ground to make the money back right away (as the UFL found out).
But with the right investment mindset and plenty of patience, an alternative football league could work . . . slow and steady would have to be the rule[/quote]
My GOD, why do people insist on parroting this narrative?
How many years will this "it COULD work" meme going to persist when EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT not only fails, but FAILS MISERABLY? We're talking not-making-it-through-the-schedule, not-paying-players-the-paltry-sums-they-signed-up-for, no-one-in-the-stands failing.
It's just not tweaking or "the right investment mindset." It's TOO ****ING EXPENSIVE TO DO THIS. If you know someone willing to lose millions and millions for years with an uncertain result when they could just donate it to Oregon or Florida State or something and be sure it would last, please introduce them to seven other people who would do the same.
But with the right investment mindset and plenty of patience, an alternative football league could work . . . slow and steady would have to be the rule[/quote]
My GOD, why do people insist on parroting this narrative?
How many years will this "it COULD work" meme going to persist when EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT not only fails, but FAILS MISERABLY? We're talking not-making-it-through-the-schedule, not-paying-players-the-paltry-sums-they-signed-up-for, no-one-in-the-stands failing.
It's just not tweaking or "the right investment mindset." It's TOO ****ING EXPENSIVE TO DO THIS. If you know someone willing to lose millions and millions for years with an uncertain result when they could just donate it to Oregon or Florida State or something and be sure it would last, please introduce them to seven other people who would do the same.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""Fran""]Good points but the groups have to be have lots of money for at least 4-5 seasons, because the longer it lasts more fans will support it.[/quote]
That's really simplistic.
Arenaball has lasted for 30 years. Do more people support it now than five years ago? Ten years ago?
Getting over the "oh, this league is not long for the world" thing is a hurdle, for sure, but NONE OF THEM ARE LONG FOR THE WORLD.
There is no proven fan support, besides a handful of sad people on message boards and Wello Songz. Certainly not enough fans have ever shown themselves to consistently show up to watch alternative football, either live or on television.
But somehow that doesn't stop some of you from being insistent that the whole concept is justthisclose to working.
It's not.
That's really simplistic.
Arenaball has lasted for 30 years. Do more people support it now than five years ago? Ten years ago?
Getting over the "oh, this league is not long for the world" thing is a hurdle, for sure, but NONE OF THEM ARE LONG FOR THE WORLD.
There is no proven fan support, besides a handful of sad people on message boards and Wello Songz. Certainly not enough fans have ever shown themselves to consistently show up to watch alternative football, either live or on television.
But somehow that doesn't stop some of you from being insistent that the whole concept is justthisclose to working.
It's not.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""4th&long""]I'm not buying any of that, USFL and even UFL (and XFL) showed that fans will show up in large numbers for good FB.
The NFL was around in NY with the Giants, Jets came in and found a fan base just like the USFL Generals
4th[/quote]
UFL and XFL weren't "good football" by any means.
Either attendance and/or ratings fell dramatically after the first week, or didn't exist at all.
USFL owners still lost approx. $160M in three seasons in 1986 dollars or $370M today.
This is going to be a SoCal-based league which will be gate driven.
Ha!
The NFL was around in NY with the Giants, Jets came in and found a fan base just like the USFL Generals
4th[/quote]
UFL and XFL weren't "good football" by any means.
Either attendance and/or ratings fell dramatically after the first week, or didn't exist at all.
USFL owners still lost approx. $160M in three seasons in 1986 dollars or $370M today.
This is going to be a SoCal-based league which will be gate driven.
Ha!
[quote=""4th&long""]I'm not buying any of that, USFL and even UFL (and XFL) showed that fans will show up in large numbers for good FB.[/quote]
The USFL, tapping into that supposed huge fan base of people who were so starved for football the rest of the year, averaged less than half of what the NFL was averaging at the time. Oh, and lost a kabillion dollars, too.
And if you think that the UFL and XFL were "good football," you're daft. Both were crap, and people didn't show up for UFL games outside of Omaha and Sacramento (for a brief period). The XFL also drew 25k per game and, oh, by the way, LOST 80 MILLION in one season despite paying its players crap wages.
They didn't show up in large numbers. It wasn't good football. The last best attempt was 30+ years ago and the economics of the game have changed substantially since then.
All the apologist bull**** about a bad economy hampering the UFL and blah blah blah blah ignores the fact that they would not pay their players, spent all their time talking about where to send Jerry Glanville to drum up support for a team, and had mostly has-beens or never-wases on their rosters.
And the Generals averaged 37,000 a game over their three years, or half what the Jets and Giants did. Had they played in the fall of 1986 in the same stadium with those two, there's no way they would have drawn that, even with Herschel and Kelly on the same team.
My God, man. Will you ever give up this quixotic belief that there's an alternative league out there that can work just because the NFL is really, really popular?
People are not going to watch guys "develop" in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to watch guys just out of high school play as mercenaries in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to watch guys who happened to play college football in their region play for some nonsensical thrown-together pro team in their region, absent the weekly connection to alma mater, in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to flock to games in the spring between teams that have existed for an hour and a half just because they're "starved" for more football.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
We'll be here in ten years and it still won't have happened and you'll still be wrong and you'll still be insisting it can be done. The current attempts on the drawing board won't last, either.
The USFL, tapping into that supposed huge fan base of people who were so starved for football the rest of the year, averaged less than half of what the NFL was averaging at the time. Oh, and lost a kabillion dollars, too.
And if you think that the UFL and XFL were "good football," you're daft. Both were crap, and people didn't show up for UFL games outside of Omaha and Sacramento (for a brief period). The XFL also drew 25k per game and, oh, by the way, LOST 80 MILLION in one season despite paying its players crap wages.
They didn't show up in large numbers. It wasn't good football. The last best attempt was 30+ years ago and the economics of the game have changed substantially since then.
All the apologist bull**** about a bad economy hampering the UFL and blah blah blah blah ignores the fact that they would not pay their players, spent all their time talking about where to send Jerry Glanville to drum up support for a team, and had mostly has-beens or never-wases on their rosters.
In 1964. With the number one drawing card in the game. In a brand-new stadium. At a time when professional football was under-serving the public demand, and right about when television helped pro football overtake baseball as the number one sport in the country.The NFL was around in NY with the Giants, Jets came in and found a fan base just like the USFL Generals
And the Generals averaged 37,000 a game over their three years, or half what the Jets and Giants did. Had they played in the fall of 1986 in the same stadium with those two, there's no way they would have drawn that, even with Herschel and Kelly on the same team.
My God, man. Will you ever give up this quixotic belief that there's an alternative league out there that can work just because the NFL is really, really popular?
People are not going to watch guys "develop" in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to watch guys just out of high school play as mercenaries in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to watch guys who happened to play college football in their region play for some nonsensical thrown-together pro team in their region, absent the weekly connection to alma mater, in enough numbers to make the finances work.
People are not going to flock to games in the spring between teams that have existed for an hour and a half just because they're "starved" for more football.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
We'll be here in ten years and it still won't have happened and you'll still be wrong and you'll still be insisting it can be done. The current attempts on the drawing board won't last, either.
Last edited by Sam Hill on Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Great time for Alt Pro FB
With three leagues in the works its the best time weve seen for alt pro fb
Americans love Pro FB and one of these or another will strike success.
Enjoy the ride....
4th
Americans love Pro FB and one of these or another will strike success.
Enjoy the ride....
4th
[quote=""4th&long""]With three leagues in the works its the best time weve seen for alt pro fb
Americans love Pro FB and one of these or another will strike success.
Enjoy the ride....
4th[/quote]
I enjoy the crashes more. The business crashes, not the football ones which even Bo Jackson regrets.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... /96492338/
But your ass is SO bloodthirsty for football. The blood is on your hands, 4th! Guess you want folks to keep buying.cigarettes too, just cause.
Can't wait for the "poor/bad marketing" excuse in November 2018 for each of these efforts.
Americans love Pro FB and one of these or another will strike success.
Enjoy the ride....
4th[/quote]
I enjoy the crashes more. The business crashes, not the football ones which even Bo Jackson regrets.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml ... /96492338/
But your ass is SO bloodthirsty for football. The blood is on your hands, 4th! Guess you want folks to keep buying.cigarettes too, just cause.
Can't wait for the "poor/bad marketing" excuse in November 2018 for each of these efforts.
Last edited by Renandpat on Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
