Will this league survive?

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Minor League Mania
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Post by Minor League Mania » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:44 pm

[quote=""Alhammer""]First... No real professional league allows games to be played outside their league. The NFL doesnt not play anyone outside league. Liabilty laws make it impossible if your running a legimate league.

Baseball can play their minor leagues due to milb being a offical part of mlb.

If you like semi pro ball fine no big deal. This league and others like them exploit the players and the fans. Too bad for the comminites they are in. These fans deserve better.[/quote]

As I mentioned before MLB also plays college teams in spring training and just last year played WBC teams from other countries. So we have MLB, NBA, NHL and also MLS recently playing outside their own league's teams. Just because the NFL does not currently do it doesn’t mean every other league isn't doing it. For the record there was a time when the NFL did reach out to play another league. The move must have worked since the Superbowl is the largest sports event in the US!

VinnyTheViper
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Post by VinnyTheViper » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:17 pm

[quote=""JeffKuntz""]Well... The NBA and MLB played games against non-league teams in the past calendar year.. And the NHL also did in the very recent past in Europe..

All exhibition games obviously, but they did play them..[/quote]

And what was the true value in playing any of these games? Did it do anything to promote the parent league's reputation. NO, they are by and large, just filler games. Years ago, the NFL used to play an exhibition game between the Super Bowl champions and the College All-Stars, it was typically played in Soldier Field in Chicago. They stopped playing this game years ago. The NFL most recently discussed discontinuing the NFL Pro Bowl, why? Because it looked too much like an exhibition game, too many players dogging it. What are doing this with this years game, drafting teams, the conference team structure for the game is gone. If this new game structure does not work, then the Pro Bowl will likely be gone. The baseball All-Star game had to institute home field for the World Series to give its all-star game some meaning. C'mon people, just because you can play an exhibition game does not mean that these types of games should be played.
Last edited by VinnyTheViper on Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Minor League Mania
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Post by Minor League Mania » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:09 pm

[quote=""VinnyTheViper""]And what was the true value in playing any of these games? Did it do anything to promote the parent league's reputation. NO, they are by and large, just filler games. [/quote]

There must be something positive to these non-traditional pro games. Every league is having them now. Not to mention having regular season games outside of league sites. Whether it is playing one of their own teams or playing teams from the other countries. This week the Atlanta Hawks are traveling over to London to play a regular season "home game". I'm thinking they are not doing this for the hell of it. The Bills just played the Falcons in a "home game" in Toronto a few weeks ago. Again, this all comes down the money. If it seems to make sense financially it will happen. This is true at any level. It is easier for independent teams to do this kind of stuff. All comes down to money. People are always so eager to say something will never happen. Same people said a College Football Playoff will never happen. Mark my words in 10 years there will be an NFL team in LA, the UK, Canada and Mexico. Only a matter of time and money.
Last edited by Minor League Mania on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Minor League Mania » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:26 pm

[quote=""VinnyTheViper""]The baseball All-Star game had to institute home field for the World Series to give its all-star game some meaning. C'mon people, just because you can play an exhibition game does not mean that these types of games should be played.[/quote]

Also wanted to mention that pride is a factor in making exhibition games work. MLB has taken all the pride out of the NL vs. AL rivalry. Interleague play has done that. Why would you care that the league plays each other in an All-Star game that half the players decline invites on? On the flip side of that coin is that Interleague play STILL draws much larger numbers than traditional league play. The NFL has just this season thrown out the whole AFC vs NFC theme. Why? Because nobody cares about that anymore. They want people to watch by changing things up a little. Maybe MLB should do a US vs the World format one year and see if that spices the All Star game up a little. I bet the TV numbers will increase. The NHL has done this before.

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Post by VinnyTheViper » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:42 pm

[quote=""Minor League Mania""]There must be something positive to these non-traditional pro games. Every league is having them now. Not to mention having regular season games outside of league sites. Whether it is playing one of their own teams or playing teams from the other countries. This week the Atlanta Hawks are traveling over to London to play a regular season "home game". I'm thinking they are not doing this for the hell of it. The Bills just played the Falcons in a "home game" in Toronto a few weeks ago. Again, this all comes down the money. If it seems to make sense financially it will happen. This is true at any level. It is easier for independent teams to do this kind of stuff. All comes down to money. People are always so eager to say something will never happen. Same people said a College Football Playoff will never happen. Mark my words in 10 years there will be an NFL team in LA, the UK, Canada and Mexico. Only a matter of time and money.[/quote]

Depends upon how you look at it, the Buffalo Bills have lost money on every game played in Toronto, they drew less than 40,000 fans for this years game, they are currently evaluating the continuation of this game in Canada. Would the Bills be making more money playing 8 games in Buffalo or 7 games in Buffalo and 1 in Canada? The answer is blatantly straight forward, 8 home games in Buffalo. Jacksonville has signed a contract with the NFL to play in a London game for the next three years, why? Because they can not sell out their games in Jacksonville, if the Jaguars could sell out their home games do you really think they would be interested in playing in London on a regular basis? NO. The NFL's international games are being played largely because of an alterior motive of the league office, not because the teams want to do it. Neither Canada or Europe have shown the support sufficient enough to support a team or a division of teams over the long haul, these games are nothing more than an expensive novelty at this point. The only way to put teams into Europe is to have a full division overseas, a single team in London will not work, it is too expensive. A team in both Canada and Mexico might work because the travel costs are more reasonable, but then there are issues with salaries based upon exchange rates and how competitve those teams would be in terms of there abilitiy to attract players.

As far as college football goes, that is a totally different story, the college playoff games will be real games that have something truly at stake, deciding a national champion, no dog and pony show here. Yes, these games will make money hand over fist, but it is not just the money that makes these games legit, a lot will be at stake in each game, none of these exhibition games that you refer to can make that claim, they are just gimmicks that hopefully break at least even.
Last edited by VinnyTheViper on Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Minor League Mania » Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:00 pm

[quote=""VinnyTheViper""] Neither Canada or Europe have shown the support sufficient enough to support a team or a division of teams over the long haul, these games are nothing more than an expensive novelty at this point.

Yes, these games will make money hand over fist, but it is not just the money that makes these games legit, a lot will be at stake in each game, none of these exhibition games that you refer to can make that claim, they are just gimmicks that hopefully break at least even.[/quote]

Have you saw the $$$ numbers?

http://nflcommunications.com/2013/10/24 ... confirmed/

The regular season and pre-season games in Europe have ALL sold out in recent years. Not to mention all the money the league gets in rebroadcast rights from the UK. Football in Europe may be a novelty right now but it is also a cash cow. Think TV rights, ticket sales, merchandise and free marketing the league gets. It’s all money in the bank! Yes this is apples to oranges comparing to independent league teams but does demonstrate how money is the motive in all of sports.

As far as college, the money that the NCAA is already guaranteed from TV rights for a playoff series is an insane amount!. Billions when it is all accounted for. Again not to mention all the ticket sales, merchandise and everything else they will get.

The whole point I am trying to make is that leagues have to think outside of the traditional box. Some of the most successful attendance nights in Minor League Baseball last season was with a so-called "gimmick" promotions. What does not make any sense to us sometimes makes perfect sense to others.
Last edited by Minor League Mania on Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hockey
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Post by Hockey » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:21 pm

I am all for playing out of league games. I'd like to see the Buffalo Bills play one game in Toronto against the Raptors. Maybe a Portland Trailblazers vs Vancouver Canucks game.

Minor League Mania
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Post by Minor League Mania » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:02 pm

Hockey you could just be on to something.......

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Post by DFWCC » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:21 pm

On the Buffalo in Toronto game. Two things the Bills may be testing the water for a move bec they're loosing money in NY and the other reason is to try and build fan support in Ontario, Ca. Toronto & Buf are only 40 mi apart.
The London game had Pittsburgh play there 2yrs ago and Pitt sells out every home game. So it wasn't a money thing for Pitt.
All that is playing in different cities.
Not the original subject of playing different leagues.
The NFL doesn't play college teams or teams from china.
MLB may play some preseason exhib games before the reg season roster is set. They are not on TV or even promoted.
NBA may play a game in different cities but I've not heard them playing the
Yabuko No-names during the regular season to fill in a sched.
Fact is pro teams don't play outside their leagues during the regular season.

Initially the discussion was about the X league playing maybe an AIF or IFL team during the regular season.
Good Luck

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Post by JeffKuntz » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:39 pm

[quote=""VinnyTheViper""]And what was the true value in playing any of these games? Did it do anything to promote the parent league's reputation. NO, they are by and large, just filler games. Years ago, the NFL used to play an exhibition game between the Super Bowl champions and the College All-Stars, it was typically played in Soldier Field in Chicago. They stopped playing this game years ago. The NFL most recently discussed discontinuing the NFL Pro Bowl, why? Because it looked too much like an exhibition game, too many players dogging it. What are doing this with this years game, drafting teams, the conference team structure for the game is gone. If this new game structure does not work, then the Pro Bowl will likely be gone. The baseball All-Star game had to institute home field for the World Series to give its all-star game some meaning. C'mon people, just because you can play an exhibition game does not mean that these types of games should be played.[/quote]


I disagree strongly.

I would say the exhibition games like the MLB in Japan, or the NHL in Europe are more important than many of the regular season games a given team plays in a given year.

Major League Baseball is trying to grow its revenue and popularity WORLD-WIDE, not just domestically. Going to Japan and playing these games has a huge ripple effect for the popularity of baseball (and MLB) in that country. The good will generated cannot be under-stated.. to baseball fans in Japan, MLB is acknowledging their passion for the sport, and showing respect for that country as a baseball market.

The money MLB makes from selling TV rights to games (especially the World Series and the rest of the playoffs) in Japan more than pays for the cost of sending a team or two over there.. Follow the money, and you'll see just how important those exhibition games are.. their purpose is to connect with grow the Japanese fanbase.. those games are extremely valuable..

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