NAL (no attendance league)

The North Amerian League (NAL) forum
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NAL (no attendance league)

Post by inside.knowledge » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:17 pm

Why does this league constantly approve and place teams in cities where they will get little to no attendance? IE. Yuma, Maui, Long Beach, Orange County, now they want Vegas which has a triple a team and Scottsdale which has the D-Backs 10 minutes away? I don't get it, does anybody?

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Post by stg2010 front office » Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:11 am

This is a trick question, right, inside.knowledge?
If you have inside knowledge you already know that the GBL/NAL is a ponzi scheme and they will sell franchises to ANYbody who will pony up the leagues up front fees.
No proof of ability to operate, no background investigation, no NOTHIN'!
Year after year players get screwed, vendors get screwed, stadium owners get screwed, and folks who buy season tickets get screwed.
The league management should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail...after PERSONALLY having to pay the back wages of the players who've been screwed out of checks.
They won't even respond to questions about why they don't require performance bonds from the team ownership.
Caval and Outcalt are nothing but scamsters and crooks... At best.
Other than that, everything is fine.

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Post by smallballfan » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:20 am

the GBL/NAL is a ponzi scheme
More truthful words were never spoken. For those who haven't experienced the fun of the GL/NAL personally, it's really not complicated. (For those who have, this is even more boring but it's a boring night where I am) It's a great cautionary tale for those with dreams of owning a professional baseball team, working for one, or being involved as a sponsor or fan.

Kaval, who is, to his credit, probably the best car salesman walking the earth today, goes with the "there's a sucker born every minute" plan. Kaval points to his book/college class project as a "business plan" (a plan long ago abandoned, by the way) and wears his Stanford jacket/sweatshirt/polo. He and Outcalt play their 'excited, can't wait for baseball spaz'-and-'voice of reason, all-business' act and the sucker owner thinks they know what they're talking about.

The sucker owner writes a check, and is then basically set up for failure, as there really is no plan for success in the NAL. The only plan is to line up the next sucker for that market, because the current sucker will run out of money at some point. The owner/sucker is left alone to make his own way down the dark tunnel of financial ruin.

They fail, because in the NAL there is no other option for owners. They go away after a year or, if they have a lot of money, two - it's really only a matter of how long they want to toss money down the hole. Then the car salesmen of the NAL office open the phone book and hook another sucker, blaming the previous debacle on "bad ownership".

It's amazing how little research these check-writers do before handing it over to these guys. It's also amazing that none of these victims, or at least none I've read about, have pursued a ponzi scheme claim in court.

This rambling doesn't even address the hundreds of staffers, ticket holders, players and sponsors who have, with good hearts and intentions, given their time, money, talent and passion to this absurd adventure. The blatant stealing of money from kids with dreams of playing ball called the 'Arizona Winter/Summer Leagues' keep the GL/NAL offices deep in cash, so there's no risk of personal financial failure by Outcalt and whoever else is in the league office these days.

(Side questions - What's the record for length of private ownership for a GL/NAL team? Has anyone EVER come out of the Arizona Winter or Summer League and achieved any sort of success, outside the GL/NAL, in their playing career? Do the 'recognized by the Superior Court of California' lines on their NAL bios come from having been dragged to court so many times?)

For those of us who have, at some point over the years, learned how the GL/NAL works, none of this is news. Hopefully anyone who is thinking about writing a check or uprooting themselves to work for one of these career and bank account-killing operations will think twice and do at least some rudimentary research before taking that step.

The only constants in the GL/NAL are the two guys who collect the checks from the sucker owners. One should ask why before getting in the same county with these two.

The off-season is coming and these guys are sure to be lining up a new round of suckers to buy teams or work for them, or to be sponsors or ticket holders, very soon. Don't let it be you.
Last edited by smallballfan on Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by AZdev » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:09 am

I hadn't heard about Vegas and Scottsdale and the NAL.Of course last year they tried to put a team in Henderson. I'm not sure Scottsdale would work.The D-backs have AC and not manu people go to the Rookie League games. Calgary's web site is still down. Maui's site has also been down for awhile now.I know that doesn't mean they are gone for sure, but it definitely is not a good sign.Going forward, Omaha will not be in the league due to the lawsuits over the team and operators of the CWS ballpark. There has not been a peep from Orange County about Artimage Park or a lease at CSF. The Toros, I think have or will file suit against the city of Tucson over Hi Corbett.So they may not be available.Long Beach is still a possibility,but far from done. Chico will need a new lease.
The ULB teams should break off and only play the NAL in the Finals.
So we could be looking at Edmonton,Chico,San Rafael,Yuma and maybe Long Beach and Henderson/Vegas, but those last two are unlikely.
The PECOS League has already released a framework of teams and a schedule for 2012.
The NAL will wait till the last minute with a hodge podge lineup.

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Post by smallballfan » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:50 pm

I think you're right, they'll toss something together to keep the ownership checks coming in one more year. Can't imagine why the Toros, after sitting out and with the AAA team staying in town, and having no stadium to play at, are suing to get the right to join this C-F and lose more money. But they are, apparently. ... -of-tucson

Must sell a lot of beer on those Thursdays. Maybe a loss leader for the ownership.

No idea why Edmonton would return with the brutal travel schedule they'd have to endure and pay for if the closest team is Chico. I know money's not a big issue for them but at some point it becomes an issue for anyone.

The Phoenix area didn't work when they were in Surprise and Mesa, when they were a 'new and exciting' league, no reason to think it would work now. It really hasn't gotten any cooler in the summers in Arizona. But maybe they have that sucker on the hook in Scottsdale, so they keep throwing it out there.
Last edited by smallballfan on Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Minor League Man » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:50 am

I thought the Texas teams were joining the AtL or reforming the UBL...and the West Coast teams were reforming the Golden League...
Proud to be a veteran of these boards for the last 5 years...

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Post by huggybear » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:00 am

[quote=""E-TownCaps""]NAL Teams for 2012:

Long Beach
San Rafael
Maybe O.C. and Maui
San Angelo
Rio Grande

Don't be surprised to see another team added in Canada. The Caps bass was pretty sure there will be another team in Canada and a few more added in the US. People think the league is in rough shape, but it's not as bad as you might think.[/quote]

youre dreaming. calgary will not be in. conrad left nothing but debts.

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Post by inside.knowledge » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:33 am

@ stg2010/smallball, Yah you guys are both right it's an absolute scam they're running. The biggest reason they keep that league going is so they can keep their winter league going and charge those poor kids $3,000 a pop. Most of those kids couldn't play on a high school varsity team but the whole idea of having a chance to sign a pro contract lures them in. Then the league makes each team sign a certain number of players to bring into spring training (whether they have a chance or not to make the club) just so that they can claim that XX amount of players were signed out of it, so they can take advantage of more next year.

@AZdev, I said Vegas but I meant Henderson. And the Scottsdale was just something I heard through someone else and I'm pretty sure it was/is going to be a league owned team as well. I know Calgary had spring training out there at the Giants facility and played some affiliated teams this year, and that's supposedly where the team is supposed to play. The whole Omaha thing was an idea for a team to go into the respected Northern League until the league disbanded. Also what idiot owner wants to put a Indy ball team in the same town as a Triple A team who just got their own brand new stadium this season? Oh yeah the NAL. If other team owners had a say in it then Maui and Edmonton would be bounced outta the league just because of the travel costs, but that would remove the only legitimate organization (Edmonton) out of the league.

Not a single team in the "north division" aside from Edmonton and maybe Calgary has a professional enough organization to join any other league in the first place. Chico didn't even play most of their home games at Nettleton. They played "promo" games in small towns around Chico, such as Redding. The real reason behind those "promo games" was because they did not want to pay the two or three grand per night to rent the Chico stadium for weekday games.

@e-town caps, You're speaking for Edmonton and their owner who is a billionaire, and their organization which is professional. I'm sure if Edmonton didn't have their ridiculous Triple-A roster with only 1 rookie and therefore not a ginormous (for indy ball) payroll then they would make more money then they already may. They had to be the only team in the league that made any money. But in good leagues such as American Association and Atlantic League the majority of the teams do make money. It's obviously not going to get owners rich but if run properly and professionally in a good city then it can be profitable. So excluding Edmonton yeah the league and the owners are clowns and they are the jokes.

@minor league man, The United League is not joining the Atlantic League. The good/better teams bolted for the American Association (Laredo, Amarillo) and the weaker ones folded. As for the rest of those guys they are not going to the Atlantic League. The Atlantic League is a pretty prestigious league to be apart of and none of those teams are even close to first class in; talent, attendance, or facilities. The one Texas team joining the Atlantic League next year is the brand new team in Sugarland. Brand new ballpark, will be first class and sign good players.

Has anyone even seen Alberts field in San Rafael? It's obvious that Outcalt does not care what type of facilities are in that league. It is a rec park with a softball field in center field. Here's an aerial shot of it. They aren't making any changes to the existing playing field except adding nets on the backstop and fences in front of the terrible tiny dugouts..... ... rtpark.jpg

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NAL Teams

Post by AZdev » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:42 pm

Wow, I did hear that Chico played a game or two in Redding, but didn't realize they had other games elsewhere too.That situation is starting to sound more like what happened with OC and Fullerton.Moving some games here and there to save money from the rent at their own home field at CSF. Then the next thing you know they are taking a year off to reevaluate their options for a new park, and then not a word. Chico may be in trouble also, so I would not count them in yet.
The San Rafael park at 800 seats is roughly half the seating of the Maui Stadium, which was quite small itself.Albert park sounds like it is more suited to a Collegiate Summer League team at best.
On another front, The Toros have officially sued the city of Tucson to be able to get back in to Hi Corbett Field. One thing I did not realize is that the Toro's were actually locked out of the field as well as their offices.The city changed the locks on them, so they have no access to all of their files/paperwork, and office equipment etc.. I had thought they left voluntarily.
Personally, I think they got a raw deal. They have a contract/lease and were paying the rent as required. The city only made this an issue (abandonment), when they learned that UA Baseball was interested in the facilities.So they revoked their lease, to secure a new one with the University. You would think the Toros have a good case, but you never know. Zucker says he wants the Toro's to play in the NAL this next season and is willing to share the facilities with the University.There shouldn't be any scheduling conflicts, I don't think their respective seasons overlap.
The Tucson City Council has a notorius reputation as a bunch of Whack Jobs, so I could see how this has all unfolded.

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Post by J.J. Smith » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:36 am

"The average attendance for the games this season was less than 400, or half of what is needed to break even, according the Partney.

You can break even drawing 800 in Hawaii? How does that work? Maybe everyone in the NAL is just looking for tax write offs, because the business model makes no sense at all.

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