Why is the MISL on OurSportsCentral?
My question is as follows: what attendance would it take for the MISL to become a "Major league?"
Because there was a time when the original MISL was outdrawing leagues such as the NBA. Of course that time has been long since.. (Were they considered major or minor back then?)
Even still, if you look at the averages, most teams are drawing (at least) twice as much as a "typical" minor league team. One exception being Norfolk...
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I now understand the MISL is on here because it lacks a following like the mere four "big leagues" BUT why are people calling it minor league(?) is what I fail to understand.
It's a complete different sport than outdoor soccer, and the players playing are pretty good (look at all the players in the U.S. Open Cup, Matt Watson playing in the MLS, and the players on the national futsal league team, etc).
Besides playing outdoor soccer, there is no place to "move up." There is a big base in the U.S. with all the youth indoor soccer leagues and indoor soccer is a fairly popular sport with them. Actually with the limited number of teams, it's quite hard for a "good" player to make it into the MISL. Most teams are exclusive and hold open tryouts but never select players from them. The Blast, for example, only invites players to tryout with them. It's not like they're picking up players off the streets. Doesn't that warrant any recognition from them?
If MISL is "minor" by your standards, what is the PASL? Is it a "farm league" for the MISL?
I just think it's silly you all consider it minor. Why can't you give it the recognition it deserves as being a major league sport with a smaller following?
Because there was a time when the original MISL was outdrawing leagues such as the NBA. Of course that time has been long since.. (Were they considered major or minor back then?)
Even still, if you look at the averages, most teams are drawing (at least) twice as much as a "typical" minor league team. One exception being Norfolk...
---
I now understand the MISL is on here because it lacks a following like the mere four "big leagues" BUT why are people calling it minor league(?) is what I fail to understand.
It's a complete different sport than outdoor soccer, and the players playing are pretty good (look at all the players in the U.S. Open Cup, Matt Watson playing in the MLS, and the players on the national futsal league team, etc).
Besides playing outdoor soccer, there is no place to "move up." There is a big base in the U.S. with all the youth indoor soccer leagues and indoor soccer is a fairly popular sport with them. Actually with the limited number of teams, it's quite hard for a "good" player to make it into the MISL. Most teams are exclusive and hold open tryouts but never select players from them. The Blast, for example, only invites players to tryout with them. It's not like they're picking up players off the streets. Doesn't that warrant any recognition from them?
If MISL is "minor" by your standards, what is the PASL? Is it a "farm league" for the MISL?
I just think it's silly you all consider it minor. Why can't you give it the recognition it deserves as being a major league sport with a smaller following?
Last edited by BlastFan on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
[quote=""BlastFan""]My question is as follows: what attendance would it take for the MISL to become a "Major league?" [/quote]
I doubt, that attendance alone has much to do with it. Indoor soccer is simply a non-factor in today's major league sports world.
...and yes, the Cavaliers even agreed to preempt some TV dates. So the local channel should show Force playoff games instead.
In indoors soccers case, a good excuse to put a new tenant in underbooked arenas at the time.
I doubt, that attendance alone has much to do with it. Indoor soccer is simply a non-factor in today's major league sports world.
Outdrawing, is an overstatement. While its attendance held its own in some markets, it hardly was to be considered steady. I may venture a guess that the Cleveland Force could have had more people in house than some 1980's Indians draws, but that hardly seemed like a threat to the Indians at the time.Because there was a time when the original MISL was outdrawing leagues such as the NBA. Of course that time has been long since..
...and yes, the Cavaliers even agreed to preempt some TV dates. So the local channel should show Force playoff games instead.
Good question. In the 1980's pre-cable, every region had every MLB, NHL, NBA game aired era, it was probably more of a non-factor. What was indoor NASL to indoor MISL?(Were they considered major or minor back then?)
In indoors soccers case, a good excuse to put a new tenant in underbooked arenas at the time.
Which is maybe part of the problem. Whereas, parts of the world are more soccer crazy then US citizens. Maybe they scoff too much at the indoor game, or it's silly two and three point shots. Too much to put it on a pedestal.It's a complete different sport than outdoor soccer.
If MISL isn't careful, PASL could easily take over the "number one" spot in the indoor soccer world.If MISL is "minor" by your standards, what is the PASL? Is it a "farm league" for the MISL?
If I had pixie dust to perform such, I'd probably use it on more important things.I just think it's silly you all consider it minor. Why can't you give it the recognition it deserves as being a major league sport with a smaller following?
Adios, OSC message boards. (2007-2017)
[quote=""BlastFan""]Because there was a time when the original MISL was outdrawing leagues such as the NBA. [/quote]
Actually, no, there wasn't such a time. Throughout the original MISL's lifetime (1978-1992), its average attendance never got within 1,500 of the NBA's during a season. Close, but no cigar. There were instances where an MISL outdrew the NBA team in its market on an average basis, but very few times.
To answer the original question (again, because it's already been answered), OSC is not just a place for "minor league" teams' coverage to be aggregated - it's for teams and leagues and sports whose coverage is not quite as easy to find as those sports in the Big Four, who who traditionally have been marginalized for one reason or another. You could make the case that MLS doesn't really belong here in that regard, as it's largely mainstream now and gets a lot of local press in its markets and much national and international attention.
If you find the term "minor league" to be a pejorative, well, I might suggest you adjust your thinking.
But the bottom line is, no matter what you think of your beloved Blast and the MISL, it's a small league with a checkered past and an uncertain future. You absolutely can't say for certain that it - or all of its teams - are going to be around from one season to the next. I don't really care if it's the top league for indoor soccer - indoor soccer is a niche of a niche.
You can decry that all you want. Doesn't change the fact that when one of your teams is playing on old arenaball turf with football lines in front of 600 people in Norfolk, it's hard to make the case that you're a "major" league, even if there's no one higher than you on the food chain.
Actually, no, there wasn't such a time. Throughout the original MISL's lifetime (1978-1992), its average attendance never got within 1,500 of the NBA's during a season. Close, but no cigar. There were instances where an MISL outdrew the NBA team in its market on an average basis, but very few times.
To answer the original question (again, because it's already been answered), OSC is not just a place for "minor league" teams' coverage to be aggregated - it's for teams and leagues and sports whose coverage is not quite as easy to find as those sports in the Big Four, who who traditionally have been marginalized for one reason or another. You could make the case that MLS doesn't really belong here in that regard, as it's largely mainstream now and gets a lot of local press in its markets and much national and international attention.
If you find the term "minor league" to be a pejorative, well, I might suggest you adjust your thinking.
But the bottom line is, no matter what you think of your beloved Blast and the MISL, it's a small league with a checkered past and an uncertain future. You absolutely can't say for certain that it - or all of its teams - are going to be around from one season to the next. I don't really care if it's the top league for indoor soccer - indoor soccer is a niche of a niche.
You can decry that all you want. Doesn't change the fact that when one of your teams is playing on old arenaball turf with football lines in front of 600 people in Norfolk, it's hard to make the case that you're a "major" league, even if there's no one higher than you on the food chain.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
[quote=""tops804""]If MISL isn't careful, PASL could easily take over the "number one" spot in the indoor soccer world.
[/quote]
I agree on the most part of everything you said... except for this comment.
PASL averages a few hundred people a game. The only MISL team that would be suitable for that league would be Norfolk. Sure the PASL has a great quanity of teams, but the MISL has the better quality, hands down.
[/quote]
I agree on the most part of everything you said... except for this comment.
PASL averages a few hundred people a game. The only MISL team that would be suitable for that league would be Norfolk. Sure the PASL has a great quanity of teams, but the MISL has the better quality, hands down.
[quote=""Sam Hill""] There were instances where an MISL outdrew the NBA team in its market on an average basis, but very few times. [/quote]
...and also, we can compare apples to apples markets which were very few at the time anyway.
Los Angeles - Probably couldn't even outdraw the pee-poor Clipper teams at the time, let alone the Lakers.
Chicago - Bulls or Sting? Gee, that would be a tough one to figure.
Dallas - Doubtful, even with the upstart Mavericks in town at the time.
Cleveland - The lone exception.
HOWEVER
1 - The Force played in a market with no hockey team what-so-ever to take entertainment dollars or good home arena nights away. (Save for when the minor league Lumberjacks moved to town and were immediately given favorable home nights.) While the indoor soccer team was told "Nice knowing you, now settle for weeknights or find another arena"...Which they did.
2 - In a day and age when "family four packs" weren't offered in many sports or markets, indoor soccer immediately saw the value in them. (*)
* - One pre-season game with the upstart Crunch in 1989 saw a local bank buy the entire lot of tickets (and give them away as a local promotion). You didn't see an empty seat in the house.
3 - The Cavaliers were torched for most of the early to late 1980's.
Maybe Tacoma, Witchita, or others drew. But not much compared to what the NBA had (wasn't the NHL in just about a dozen U.S. markets back then?) going in the way of professional winter sports at the time.
...and also, we can compare apples to apples markets which were very few at the time anyway.
Los Angeles - Probably couldn't even outdraw the pee-poor Clipper teams at the time, let alone the Lakers.
Chicago - Bulls or Sting? Gee, that would be a tough one to figure.
Dallas - Doubtful, even with the upstart Mavericks in town at the time.
Cleveland - The lone exception.
HOWEVER
1 - The Force played in a market with no hockey team what-so-ever to take entertainment dollars or good home arena nights away. (Save for when the minor league Lumberjacks moved to town and were immediately given favorable home nights.) While the indoor soccer team was told "Nice knowing you, now settle for weeknights or find another arena"...Which they did.
2 - In a day and age when "family four packs" weren't offered in many sports or markets, indoor soccer immediately saw the value in them. (*)
* - One pre-season game with the upstart Crunch in 1989 saw a local bank buy the entire lot of tickets (and give them away as a local promotion). You didn't see an empty seat in the house.
3 - The Cavaliers were torched for most of the early to late 1980's.
Maybe Tacoma, Witchita, or others drew. But not much compared to what the NBA had (wasn't the NHL in just about a dozen U.S. markets back then?) going in the way of professional winter sports at the time.
Adios, OSC message boards. (2007-2017)
[quote=""BlastFan""]My question is as follows: what attendance would it take for the MISL to become a "Major league?"
[/quote]
Simple, no national exposure of any kind (ESPN, Sports Illisrated, USA Today etc, etc)
Players don't make a living playing in the MISL.
No one makes money running a team. Its an expensive hobby.
You'll never find merch in a sports store, target or walmart.
You'll never find kids on a soccer field dreaming of playing in an empty arena on second hand turf.
And lastly, no ones cares, even most soccer fans.
[/quote]
Simple, no national exposure of any kind (ESPN, Sports Illisrated, USA Today etc, etc)
Players don't make a living playing in the MISL.
No one makes money running a team. Its an expensive hobby.
You'll never find merch in a sports store, target or walmart.
You'll never find kids on a soccer field dreaming of playing in an empty arena on second hand turf.
And lastly, no ones cares, even most soccer fans.
[quote=""tops804""]
Chicago - Bulls or Sting? Gee, that would be a tough one to figure.
[/quote]
You laugh, but pre-Jordan, the Sting actually did out-draw the Bulls.
The answer is actually Chicago, Cleveland, Kansas City and San Diego. When the Force were in their heyday, though, when they actually were a big deal in Cleveland, they outdrew the Cavs for five straight years.
And the Steamers (in their heyday) outdrew the Blues for several years, while the Spirit outdrew the Penguins one year pre-Lemieux. But that's it. That's the list.
Chicago - Bulls or Sting? Gee, that would be a tough one to figure.
[/quote]
You laugh, but pre-Jordan, the Sting actually did out-draw the Bulls.
Cleveland did, but they weren't the lone exception.Cleveland - The lone exception.
The answer is actually Chicago, Cleveland, Kansas City and San Diego. When the Force were in their heyday, though, when they actually were a big deal in Cleveland, they outdrew the Cavs for five straight years.
And the Steamers (in their heyday) outdrew the Blues for several years, while the Spirit outdrew the Penguins one year pre-Lemieux. But that's it. That's the list.
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
My Definition of Major League
Well, since it is in the 90's (with matching humidity) today and all my clients are safe and sound I'll chime in...
Here is my definition of a USA "Major League" (2000-present)*
1. Top level league in its sport
2. Nationwide footprint
3. Minimum of 12 teams
4. Team stability (i.e. no annual failures/replacements)
5. Daily (or almost daily) coverage during regular season and playoffs on ESPN
6. Local TV and Radio contract for virtually all games
7. Daily (or almost daily) local coverage during regular season and playoffs (TV, Radio, Print)
8. National LIVE game TV broadcast coverage
9. Minimum league average attendance 50% of venue capacity
10. Typical athlete in league does not need an outside (additional) income to support self/family in a reasonable manner (say $50,000-$75,000 minimum annually)
* USA because that is my experience and 2000+ because pro sports and media have changed since then (although probably 1990+ would work just as well)
Feel free to add or change this list.
Dave
Here is my definition of a USA "Major League" (2000-present)*
1. Top level league in its sport
2. Nationwide footprint
3. Minimum of 12 teams
4. Team stability (i.e. no annual failures/replacements)
5. Daily (or almost daily) coverage during regular season and playoffs on ESPN
6. Local TV and Radio contract for virtually all games
7. Daily (or almost daily) local coverage during regular season and playoffs (TV, Radio, Print)
8. National LIVE game TV broadcast coverage
9. Minimum league average attendance 50% of venue capacity
10. Typical athlete in league does not need an outside (additional) income to support self/family in a reasonable manner (say $50,000-$75,000 minimum annually)
* USA because that is my experience and 2000+ because pro sports and media have changed since then (although probably 1990+ would work just as well)
Feel free to add or change this list.
Dave
Last edited by dmbishop on Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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[quote=""BlastFan""]I've never quite figured this one out. The Major Indoor Soccer League is a major league. It does not really fit in with minor sports leagues or independent (minor) leagues. It's nice to have a place to talk about the league (because there aren't many other places to) BUT the obvious reason this forum is always "dead" and no activity goes on is that this is the last place one would think of coming to talk about the MISL as it is a major league.[/quote]
What an absolute privilege it is to finally hear someone (other than myself) speak the truth. Thank you my good friend. Thank you.
I do visit Oursportscentral for the great coverage they do for minor league sports. The MISL is like the elephant in the room. The MISL is clearly the large fish in the small pond. No, we don't belong here with such vagabond leagues like the PASL-Pro.
However, Oursportscentral have at the very least made us feel welcome. Yes, we are their franchise player and I suppose every multi-sports site need one or two. Sadly fans of big league indoor soccer doesn't know we exist. I have broken major stories here and unfortuneatly no one got the news because they don't look here.
Maybe if the name of the site was changed, the MISL would be so out of place.
What an absolute privilege it is to finally hear someone (other than myself) speak the truth. Thank you my good friend. Thank you.
I do visit Oursportscentral for the great coverage they do for minor league sports. The MISL is like the elephant in the room. The MISL is clearly the large fish in the small pond. No, we don't belong here with such vagabond leagues like the PASL-Pro.
However, Oursportscentral have at the very least made us feel welcome. Yes, we are their franchise player and I suppose every multi-sports site need one or two. Sadly fans of big league indoor soccer doesn't know we exist. I have broken major stories here and unfortuneatly no one got the news because they don't look here.
Maybe if the name of the site was changed, the MISL would be so out of place.
No posts since 3-29-12 ---
--- In the wonderfully titled thread: "Fixing The MISL: Special Commentary"
and now, this intellectual stimulation.
[quote=""Soccer-Man""]What an absolute privilege it is to finally hear someone (other than myself) speak the truth. Thank you my good friend. Thank you.
I do visit Oursportscentral for the great coverage they do for minor league sports. The MISL is like the elephant in the room. The MISL is clearly the large fish in the small pond. No, we don't belong here with such vagabond leagues like the PASL-Pro.
However, Oursportscentral have at the very least made us feel welcome. Yes, we are their franchise player and I suppose every multi-sports site need one or two. Sadly fans of big league indoor soccer doesn't know we exist. I have broken major stories here and unfortuneatly no one got the news because they don't look here.
Maybe if the name of the site was changed, the MISL would be so out of place.[/quote]
...and what have we learned from this?
Look everybody...Soccer-man's mom gave him his laptop back after a 3 month hiatus!!! The forth quarter report card must've been OK...
and now, this intellectual stimulation.
[quote=""Soccer-Man""]What an absolute privilege it is to finally hear someone (other than myself) speak the truth. Thank you my good friend. Thank you.
I do visit Oursportscentral for the great coverage they do for minor league sports. The MISL is like the elephant in the room. The MISL is clearly the large fish in the small pond. No, we don't belong here with such vagabond leagues like the PASL-Pro.
However, Oursportscentral have at the very least made us feel welcome. Yes, we are their franchise player and I suppose every multi-sports site need one or two. Sadly fans of big league indoor soccer doesn't know we exist. I have broken major stories here and unfortuneatly no one got the news because they don't look here.
Maybe if the name of the site was changed, the MISL would be so out of place.[/quote]
...and what have we learned from this?
Look everybody...Soccer-man's mom gave him his laptop back after a 3 month hiatus!!! The forth quarter report card must've been OK...
Adios, OSC message boards. (2007-2017)