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The Mid-Atlantic Hockey League (MAHL) forum
Darrenpuppa
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Post by Darrenpuppa » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:12 pm

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joe01369
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It really isnt that hard....

Post by joe01369 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:35 am

Go and sign a real coach, have a real salary cap, play in a building that can allow you to break even, i.e. not less than 1000 seats, and have some damn $$. Lets all be for real here, these guys are really up against a wall, but you cant just throw these leagues together. Product development takes time and money, which are one in the same.

Hockey
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Post by Hockey » Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:33 am

My suggestions. 2,500 seat rink minimum. Special considerations can apply. Since Danbury only seats 2,100.

Also, hire a payroll service and place the players pay for the season in advance. That plus paying a minimum of half the seasons ice rent fees in advance.

Those are the essentials of giving credibilty to this process. The league hopefully is not asking for "expansion fees". I would recommend a large line of credit instead.

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Post by nksports » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:20 am

Get rid of the dreamers and the scam artists as both league operators and owners. Any prospective owner must demonstrate enough net worth (several million) and net worth liquid (again several million) that they can ensure the team will last at least a season. That means background and credit checks folks. It means references. It means doing DUE DILIGENCE!!!!!

These things aint cheap and anyone who thinks otherwise can look at the average lifespan of an ABA or NIFL franchise. If you don't have the money upfront to afford office rent, venue rent, equipment, payroll, insurance, taxes, travel expenses and everything else that goes along with it, you can't afford to do this.

There are too many people who think they can put out a press release saying they have a team and think they can survive on player tryout fees and then all the money they ever need will come rolling in on the big rock candy mountain.

Market research is also a must. We're about to take a severe economic downturn ($4 a gallon gas is on the way). The first thing that goes under in such conditions is minor league sports. Not every market is going to survive (otherwise the Dayton Gems would still be around). That means you have to know your market.

Hire a good GM, hire a coach with strong connections (your coach at this level also is your director of on-ice operations), hire a marketing director and a media relations director, hire a sales staff.

And this is just the tip of the ice berg.

joe01369
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with all due respect

Post by joe01369 » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:20 pm

this isnt major league hockey we are talking about. this is small budget, single a hockey. most multi millionaires are not liquid in the millions of $$. be realistic. no business pays payrol in advance, that just doesnt make sense because payrol always changes, its not a "fixed cost". payrol services also charge a fee so there goes more money. being realistic, if a group has enough $$ to pay for ice up front, they can make things happen. we can all "say" what we would do, or should be done, but the bottom line is most of these ideas dont actually work in the real business world. no one pays up front in any business, and every business is a gamble not just professional sports. we simply get pissed when a team we like or care about folds, but the truth is that businesses fold every day and thats just life. it sucks but thats how it is.

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Post by preeths » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:32 pm

That doesn't mean you go into something without a workable plan. The truth is somewhere in the middle. It doesn't take millions to run franchises at the A level, but you need proper financing. The MAHL never had it. It's the second time the same guy has put together a league like this. Sorry, but I can't just shrug my shoulders when he fails again because a lot of people get hurt. At least attempt to do it right or don't do it at all.

joe01369
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true

Post by joe01369 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:07 pm

all good points. people do get hurt in all of these leagues when they go bad. but people also get a shot at a dream, and for some that dream moves ahead when they get called up. granted the finances allot of the time seem shakey, but you have to admit that it is a huge risk not only for players, but for the guys trying to make it happen. people gamble on both ends. is it right? i cant say, but i do appreciate the fact that people have the stones to take the shot. i never saw any of the mahl games, the question is, if we as "fans" could buy a ticket, would we? or would we boycot the league just because we didnt like the guy running it? are we that concerned with the players and the game that we can move beyond the owners?

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preeths
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Post by preeths » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:50 pm

The finances don't just seem shaky, they are more than shaky. They are simply not there to the degree they are needed. There is a reason for that. The money people don't believe in the MAHL plan or its ability to carry it out. The evidence to that statement is obvious. The MAHL stopped playing games which means that the few season ticket holders and sponsors weren't provided what they paid for, not to mention players, employees and vendors.

You need to come up with a workable plan first, and then take steps to implement it. That's the difference between investing and gambling. There is risk in starting a league, and even with a good plan and attempt to carry it out, you can still fail, but if you don't have a good plan or way to properly implement it, you may as well just buy lottery tickets. At least that way you're not burning your own community.

There are a lot of people with stones, but far fewer with the cash or the ability to procure it. With leagues like the MAHL tarnishing the reputation of the minors, it just makes it tougher for legit operations to win over fans, buildings, sponsors and vendors. This entire exercise did very few people any good and hurt many more.

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Post by IceMiner#1 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:57 am

Very well put. I am really concerned about the leagues without a good business plan really mucking it up for the legit attempts at setting up a league.

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Post by nksports » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:07 am

I know I sound mean and heartless and all that when these questions get posed, but the bottom line is this is not cheap.
When these teams can't make payroll, it's really, really bad. Often player payroll is one of your lower costs at this level. If you're paying an 18-team roster $50 a game, that's $54,000 for, say, a 60-game season. You have to cover all your other costs for your 30-game home season. If you are averaging 1,000 a game with an average ticket price of $10, you will make $300,000 income (before advertising and sponsorships), so payroll is just a little more than a sixth of that.
The arena (depending on the arena size and market) is going to charge you somewhere between $2,000 and $5,000 a game (sometimes even higher). I suppose that is why some of these teams are going into 1,000-seat rinks, they are probably a little cheaper.
You can thank such fine groups as the NIFL and ABA for this, but many venues now want either a deposit up front or the entire rent up front.
The reason the owner has to be flush with cash is they have to be able to cover start-up losses for an extended period of time. It often takes three to five years before an owner sees dime one in profit. At the level we're talking about, there is no major league team covering your costs.
You want to travel by bus, that's going to cost your team about $1,500 to $3,000 a game (and those were the prices before the gas prices went up).
We could go on and on, but I hope you get the picture.

Here endeth the rant.

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