Merger talks

[CHris902]

[quote=""BBallFan - Long Island""]Recruiting specific teams to jump leagues is also dependant on "opt-out" penalties in franchise agreements for teams departing for a different league. Jumping out of the ABA seems to happen all the time, but the experts and insiders on this board may know the terms of the franchise arrangments better than me. So, you may have additional expenses here.
[/quote]

Joe Newman does not sell "franchises" he sells "market reservations." I don't know exactly what the legal differences are, but it does change the responsibilities of the ABA and the teams. Someone else can probably clarify.

[panchess]

..in 2006-2007, Indiana and Minot came over as dominant ABA teams (both were around .900 winning percentage), and Pittsburgh as a pretty good one (I think they were 18-13). Indiana finished at .500 in the CBA, Pittsburgh was 10-38 and Minot was 31-17.

The difference in Minot was a veteran CBA coach and management, and basically cleaned out the ABA roster and started over in a new location.

Indiana and Pittsburgh basically came over with ABA squads and in Pittsburgh's case, a former high school basketball coach, and both took a big step backward in record.

Given there were only seven teams in the CBA for half the season, and the two Montana teams were expansion franchises, I think that year shows clearly the difference between the CBA and ABA. The ABA teams should have done better.

No ABA teams came to the CBA in 2007-2008, so there are no comparables.

Among the solid franchises, I thought the USBL was at least on par with the CBA. The Delaware, Jackson and New Jerseys of the world populating the lower half of the USBL dragged the league down.

[psbf]

Close enough, Panchess. Our coach in the ABA(Tom Thacker) had no pro experience either but he had a systemp that worked. When we moved to the CBA, it was a whole new team and new coach.

[Paul S]

Joe Newman does not sell "franchises" he sells "market reservations." I don't know exactly what the legal differences are, but it does change the responsibilities of the ABA and the teams. Someone else can probably clarify.

Good point as there is a huge difference.

A franchise has certain legal stipulations. IE the franchisee (Joe) must provide a prospectus, a list of people who have bought the franchise in the past 10 years in your state, must spell out how to disolve the franchise if either side wants to dissassociate and financial accounting based on real world results of other franchises' (if there are other franchises, assuming you are not the first). There are numerous laws about franchises' and franchisee rights in every state and province. You are also assigned a Client Manager who will guide you throught the sales process and then a customer service manager who will guide you through the training and then a relationship manager who will guide you after you open the door.

A market reservation is a term that Joe has dreamed up and basically means you send him 10k and you get the right to operate a team in a set area until Joe decides or you go broke or to another league.

[panchess]

..but the fact is that in the ABA, a large city team never really should be that bad if they can actually get through the season because there is more "free talent" (and most of the time in the ABA, it is free) available to throw on the roster.

In the CBA or PBL, you have to recruit pro players and run a pro system to succeed.

[preeths]

The ABA's use of the term "market reservation" has always intrigued me. When it places multiple franchises in the Chicago area in the same season, I wonder what market is actually being reserved. It obviously isn't the entire city. A few square blocks, maybe? Is the term "market" defined in the agreement?

[BBallFan - Long Island]

Thanks for clarifying the difference with the "market reservation". But to advance the thought, who is to stop someone from forming their own team, calling it an ABA team and scheduling games with existing ABA teams? It seems to me that if you can make every game scheduled, or even fill in for cancellations (probably the biggest value is being a stand in), what's the difference? Your risk is that Mr. Newman will ceaselessly call for the reservation fee, and maybe you have to negotiate.

Getting back to the PBL/CBA merger/acquisition discussions, who is in the lead?

[preeths]

You wouldn't be able to call yourself an ABA team without repercussions, but that doesn't stop teams from playing ABA opponents, even during the season.

[TEN]

While it's painfully obvious that the USBL won't be around this year....In this comparison game, I thought I would let you in on some conversations with coaches who have coached in both the USBL and D-league (at the same time).

Last year I was talking to Dale Osbourne (head coach of Dodge City, coached Austin after DJ died and is now at Utah) and Roy Rogers (head coach of Oklahoma, has been with Tulsa and now Austin in the D league). Dale and Roy were both commenting about how good the talent level in the USBL had been. They both said that the midwest teams in the USBL were every bit as good as the D-league teams that they had coached all winter. And that the intensity when those teams played each other was a good as it gets.

Roy said that he had no idea that some of the D-league players that he brought over with him couldn't cut it and he had to move them out. It took him a month or so to realize that he didn't have the horses to win night in/night out and he had to get some better talent. Dale had been in the USBL since 2002 and said many times that there were USBL teams (Oklahoma/Dodge City/Kansas) that could be successful in the D-League.

I've had quite a few coaches in the minor leagues say that the Dodge City teams I had in 2000 and 2003 were as good as any in the minors (Sean Colson, Darrin Hancock, Artie Griffin, Antonio Smith, Kelvin Price, etc).

When you take a look at the USBL as a whole....you had some good and some bad and not much in between....But I would put Dodge City, Kansas and Oklahoma (not to mention Pennsylvania, Atlantic City and others in past years) against any of the minor leagues (keeping in mind that many of the good players were also standouts in the CBA, D league, etc....I only had to pay them 500 a week as opposed to 1000-1500 a week in the winter leagues).

The USBL had a good thing going.....good players....no real competition from the winter leagues...respect of scouts and coaches in the NBA and overseas leagues....And they managed to piss it all away.

I've talked with both Roy and Dale in the past couple of months....They can't believe that the USBL won't be around this year...They looked forward to coming back.

Kind of sad...

[not so fast]

I sure hope it comes back. I have so much respect for that league. My guy John Jackson's professional career that is now entering his 11th since college, was made by the success he has had in the USBL.

the IBL is doing a dis-service to basketball in the Spring/summer.