SCL Comeback

The South Coast League (SCL) forum
MikeH
Site Admin
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Thomasville, NC
Contact:

Post by MikeH » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:07 pm

[quote=""Baseball Insider""]Mike - I do apreciate you addressing my points as best you can. I am not trying to rip you or your league. Having spent an interesting year in Indy Ball myself, I just think I bring some valuable insight to this forum if nothing else. While a lot of capital coming to the table may not guarantee a long term partnership, it helps, ask the Golden League. I just think by announcing the person who wants to own the team, that may help in increasing support and momentum within that community. There have been cases when a potential owner may be revelaed before it is actually in place. Again, I read everything and like to think I am smart, but by announcing him/her, would be a great way to counteract Fortson who referred to you as "a fan."

As far as trying to control the league, I am just using examples of when you said the SPCA would "sponsor" all of the dog days in the ACL, your kids club, and now Mike's Hard Lemonade, etc. In affiliated ball, teams aren't forced to be locked into league and National Association Deals. Even in the hockey league now I am in, owners don't have to particpate in "league wide deals."

I am a little worried about who is telling you you guys may break even? Ask Jay Tee, on how much he spent on player salaries, manger salaries, player visas, workers/players comp./medical issues, stadium tranportation, beer licenses, payroll (with small staffs), travel will get only worse with sickening gas prices, utilities, stadium clean-up. Let's say you do have a rain-out (it honestly does seem like the weather is changing for the worse - either real hot or nasty storms) you are in trouble. You can buy insurance, but those rates are increasing.....See what I mean?

I know that in some leagues and some owners looking to bring a team to a territory will send out a questionaire to get a feel for the level of community interest. sponsorship and I guess I am unsure if some markets really want baseball.....seems like it keeps getting pushed on them (I know, maybe they will learn to like it).

Again, I think I am making valid points........

Jay Tee - You are right, we did have the class of the interns for the SCL and some good people like myself. You can rest easily. I (we) did call all of the major players in Macon. I have to think though, that there are maybe at least 20,000 businesses in Macon/Warner Robins/Milledgeville. I don't think we hit everyone. I also know that the level of service we provided, honsetly stunk. I would have liked to have done better with surveys, actually do that season ticket holder batting practice (which Sisler promised), come up with a plan of sponsor prrof of performances, etc. We didn't get Kazoo (mascot) into the community enough and we didn't do enoough for the Kids Club.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know in my case, from when I listened in on the conference calls, we totally got judged by what we sold, and I tried to to whatever I could to help out there.......whether it was setting up a Kids day, classic car night, Red Hat night, etc.

I only need to got to Augusta to make my point. The Ripkens have raised their staffiing and as a result, reveunes are following. I belive that they have someone that does client services. One of the former Music interns who is there now, can just focus on selling tickets and nothing else. I spent way too much time trying to find an official scorer for like every game the last half, trying to smooth over Phil's apartment issues, etc.

Oh well - At least you did give us Big Cecil (concessions Cecil - not Cecil Fielder) and that was appreciated as I know some AGM's handled (or tried to anyway)that.[/quote]

Again, I stated the team could make a profit. I never any team would make a profit. But I simply showed, witht he correct management of money, an average attendance of 500, with 3 other major revenue streams, you can make a profit.

As Jamie even stated, I really do not have to answer the questions I do. He even stated, stay my own course because only I know exactly what hours I put into this league and what I do outside the public view.

I'm not saying the SCL being in public was bad for them, however, I'm a very private person. Until certain things are "official", they will not be released.

Fortson would not let me tell him who my owner was, therefore, since Macon treated me the way they did, Albany gained this owner.
**HOMETOWN CLUBS**
Durham Bulls (Class AAA International League)
Carolina Mudcats (Class AA Southern League)
Winston-Salem Dash (Class A Advanced Carolina League)
Greensboro Grasshoppers (Class A South Atlantic League)
Burlington Indians (Rookie Appalachian League)
**CINCINNATI REDS' AFFILIATIONS**
Louisville Bats
Carolina Mudcats
Dayton Dragons
Billings Mustangs

JayTee
Site Admin
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 2:02 am

Post by JayTee » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:38 am

Mike,

Are you guys going to use the DH? Is the 2010 starting date official or are you and your staff still discussing a possible 2009 start?

MikeH
Site Admin
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Thomasville, NC
Contact:

Post by MikeH » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:58 am

[quote=""JayTee""]Mike,

Are you guys going to use the DH? Is the 2010 starting date official or are you and your staff still discussing a possible 2009 start?[/quote]

We will not be using the DH. Also, we have planned to keep pursuing a 2009 start until it gets too late.

Right now as it stands, three markets are a big possibility to secure within the next couple of months.

One market, which would make a fourth, will be pending until September or October. The reason for the delay with this market, and Jamie should know which market it is, is the fact this market currently has a contract with a tenant. I have to meet with them this coming Wednesday in which I will hand deliver the proposal. We will sit and go over the proposal detail by detail. This way will guarantee complete review when the time comes for them to be looking to fill the stadium.
**HOMETOWN CLUBS**
Durham Bulls (Class AAA International League)
Carolina Mudcats (Class AA Southern League)
Winston-Salem Dash (Class A Advanced Carolina League)
Greensboro Grasshoppers (Class A South Atlantic League)
Burlington Indians (Rookie Appalachian League)
**CINCINNATI REDS' AFFILIATIONS**
Louisville Bats
Carolina Mudcats
Dayton Dragons
Billings Mustangs

JayTee
Site Admin
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 2:02 am

Post by JayTee » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:28 am

Interesting.... to my knowledge the SCL was the only league to play without the DH.... the baseball people (i.e. managers, scouts, etc.) hate it but I think it is the way the game is meant to be played.

Do you have a deadline for having the markets secured to play in 2009? Are you willing to play with four teams or is six or eight a minimum for you?

I am not sure who you are talking about regarding a market "having a current tenant".... but I assume that will be Columbus. I would recommend allowing Columbus to sit without baseball for a few years (maybe placing an expansion club there in 2011), I think when you try to throw in an independent league team immediately following an affiliated club you battle the same issues that you have by following the SCL in a former SCL market... while the community may not be bitter about vendors not being paid, they are for the most part disheartened by professional baseball as they have just lost their "minor league" team. On the other hand, when a community goes without baseball for a year and more like two years, I think you have a better shot at a fresh start for your brand.

Personally I think the 2010 season would be a better goal for you guys but obviously you have to do what you think is right for the overall success of the league. In my opinion, to play in 2009, you would need to have all of the leases in place now and have ownership and personnel in place no later than September 1st.

Looking back, I think we made a major mistake by not realizing all of the things that you need to do to lay a good foundation for an organization. If you look at the SCL, Aiken, Macon, and Charlotte County had a much better foundation than Albany, Anderson, and of course Bradenton. I think that can be directly attributed to the time the administrative staff has within a community to introduce the club.

Are there going to be league-owned teams as well as individually owned teams? I think you refereed to possibly have some league owned teams but I could be wrong.

MikeH
Site Admin
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Thomasville, NC
Contact:

Post by MikeH » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:46 am

[quote=""JayTee""]Interesting.... to my knowledge the SCL was the only league to play without the DH.... the baseball people (i.e. managers, scouts, etc.) hate it but I think it is the way the game is meant to be played.

Do you have a deadline for having the markets secured to play in 2009? Are you willing to play with four teams or is six or eight a minimum for you?

I am not sure who you are talking about regarding a market "having a current tenant".... but I assume that will be Columbus. I would recommend allowing Columbus to sit without baseball for a few years (maybe placing an expansion club there in 2011), I think when you try to throw in an independent league team immediately following an affiliated club you battle the same issues that you have by following the SCL in a former SCL market... while the community may not be bitter about vendors not being paid, they are for the most part disheartened by professional baseball as they have just lost their "minor league" team. On the other hand, when a community goes without baseball for a year and more like two years, I think you have a better shot at a fresh start for your brand.

Personally I think the 2010 season would be a better goal for you guys but obviously you have to do what you think is right for the overall success of the league. In my opinion, to play in 2009, you would need to have all of the leases in place now and have ownership and personnel in place no later than September 1st.

Looking back, I think we made a major mistake by not realizing all of the things that you need to do to lay a good foundation for an organization. If you look at the SCL, Aiken, Macon, and Charlotte County had a much better foundation than Albany, Anderson, and of course Bradenton. I think that can be directly attributed to the time the administrative staff has within a community to introduce the club.

Are there going to be league-owned teams as well as individually owned teams? I think you refereed to possibly have some league owned teams but I could be wrong.[/quote]

I do not know if you would consider the teams league owned, because the listed owner will be Line Drive Sports Entertainment.

I plan to own 2 clubs because these are markets I am wanting so bad.

Jamie, I 110% agree with a 2010 start. It would give us that one full year to become fully involved in the community, plus ample time to build the franchises from the ground up. Plus, it provides ample time to get the necessary staff trained to do things the right way.

The original plan had been to own all clubs. Then after year 1, the GM's would become the owners of the teams, that is if they did their jobs correctly.

To answer the question about the amount of teams, we can settle for 4 in year 1. We have a 4 that are very good possibilities. 5 if the potential owner of the Albany club can get Macon.

By the time September comes around and we are still short of at least 4 markets secured, we will push back to a 2010 start. We are not going to kill this league in any way before it starts. If we do push back to 2010, that provides us more of an opportunity to be more stable and will more than likely be able to guarantee a knockout first year.

A final decision will come around August. Towards the end of August, just keep posted to the site to keep up to date about the inaugural season.

In the meantime, that poll that is up will more than likely remain up. I encourage everyone to vote and let us know their favorite promotional giveaways.

By the way, the thing about the ASPCA sponsoring the Adopt-A-Pet program is to help spread the education of animal cruelty. The ASPCA would come to each ballpark once or twice a month, along with the local humane society, and try to help adopt pets.

The league wide contract with uniforms, baseballs, and bats are mandatory that owners and franchises use them. The uniforms will bear the ACL logo. The only company we have a relationship with that has permission to use our logo on the uniforms they make is Victory.

The same with the bats and the balls. If an owner went to Rawlings to use that brand of baseball, and they use the ACL logo, I have right to sue. D-BAT is the only company that produces bats and balls that has all the authority to use the ACL logo. Any unauthorized duplication or reproduction of the ACL logo is grounds for a lawsuit. That logo I had personally made by a friend of mine, and it cost me nothing. I will most likely use him to provide the logos for each team because the guy does excellent work. I will either refer him to the owners, or I will try to relay the information to him. The advantage of having a logo man, is the fact he does free work for me.

Our contracts with Victory and D-BAT specify all franchises must use their product. Baseball Insider you should know this already. Just ask Jamie if his contract with them read the same way. This was mandated by Victory and D-BAT, not me. I asked for contracts. I was working on many different types of contracts to provide benefits for the clubs.
Last edited by MikeH on Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
**HOMETOWN CLUBS**
Durham Bulls (Class AAA International League)
Carolina Mudcats (Class AA Southern League)
Winston-Salem Dash (Class A Advanced Carolina League)
Greensboro Grasshoppers (Class A South Atlantic League)
Burlington Indians (Rookie Appalachian League)
**CINCINNATI REDS' AFFILIATIONS**
Louisville Bats
Carolina Mudcats
Dayton Dragons
Billings Mustangs

Bsballexec
Site Admin
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:31 am

Post by Bsballexec » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:04 am

I have been reading this forum today and I thought I was going to get some insight on the South Coast League.I did indeed get the actual implosion of it first hand from Mr. Toole.I commend him for airing it on this open forum.I believe Mr. Toole did what he could to keep the South Coast League running even in 2007.He then knew the league was in trouble going into 2008 and did what he could to give it a go.As a business professional myself in baseball, money is the word and the word only.

Mr. Toole has explained that several times on this forum and should not be held accountable for the downfall of the South Coast Leaue or anybodies paychecks.I can assure you he did not control the money.

Now getting to this website league,Atlantic Coast League.I have been to your site,read the press articles and your forums Mr. Harden.All you have said about yourself is that you are a fan of the game,math wiz,fireman,etc.What is your business background?Education?Work Experience?Baseball or sports business experience?Why would we want to invest in your league or buy a franchise from you?You could have a potential buyer or investor that reads this forum.

Baseball Insider
Site Admin
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:43 pm

Post by Baseball Insider » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:53 pm

Game On - If Mike can't take a little heat and a little "bashing" he doesn't need to start a league. Ask JayTee how many times he has been on the "hot seat." I give him credit. For the most part, he has sttod his ground, and defended himself. Trust me man, he will be in the hot seat a lot more, if this league gets going. Know better brought up some valid points, what a momumental task he is facing. Maybe if some of the vendors, employess (like myself) people who take past leagues to court, only to have the league not show up, fans, knew some of this, potential/current owners, evevryone who knew just what a difficult taks this is, then there wouldn't be the uproar there is about when it doesn't work.

User avatar
JoesFan
Site Admin
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:52 am

Communism!

Post by JoesFan » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:59 pm

[quote=""JayTee""]Interesting.... to my knowledge the SCL was the only league to play without the DH.... the baseball people (i.e. managers, scouts, etc.) hate it but I think it is the way the game is meant to be played.
[/quote]

I was furious after hearing Hank Steinbrenner's remarks about the DH. Players are players, and when teams are carrying a left handed pitcher JUST to face one left handed batter, there are enough "specialists" in the game already.

The DH is a curse upon baseball. It's the next thing to Communism. 8)
SCL got that one right and it looks like ACL is making the right call on this one too.

Joesfan :cool:

MikeH
Site Admin
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 3:31 am
Location: Thomasville, NC
Contact:

Post by MikeH » Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:06 pm

[quote=""JoesFan""]I was furious after hearing Hank Steinbrenner's remarks about the DH. Players are players, and when teams are carrying a left handed pitcher JUST to face one left handed batter, there are enough "specialists" in the game already.

The DH is a curse upon baseball. It's the next thing to Communism. 8)
SCL got that one right and it looks like ACL is making the right call on this one too.

Joesfan :cool: [/quote]

Originally, we had planned to carry a DH. However, when I was active in the Johnstown forums in the thread about us coming to Johnstown, the folks up there were dead set against it because that is NL area.

The same thing applies down south. This is NL area (Atlanta Braves). Plus, if Pitchers can play defense, they can play offense. The most that their job as batter entails is to successfully get a sacrafice bunt. Pitchers the number sacrafices on the field. They are the sacraficial lamb so to speak. ;)
**HOMETOWN CLUBS**
Durham Bulls (Class AAA International League)
Carolina Mudcats (Class AA Southern League)
Winston-Salem Dash (Class A Advanced Carolina League)
Greensboro Grasshoppers (Class A South Atlantic League)
Burlington Indians (Rookie Appalachian League)
**CINCINNATI REDS' AFFILIATIONS**
Louisville Bats
Carolina Mudcats
Dayton Dragons
Billings Mustangs

Bsballexec
Site Admin
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:31 am

Post by Bsballexec » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:45 pm

Well it seems Mr. Harden conviently passed right on by my questions and comments.That is fine,I respect that.I was just curious to know about your background in baseball and business.As you know this is a huge undertaking for someone,Mr. Toole can give you plenty of insight.It always looks good on paper,remember that.

Post Reply

Return to “SCL”