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  #21   IP: 24.93.114.252
Old 06-13-2007, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Fred's not affilliated. And unlike you, he has a grip on reality.

The XFL used your idea, and it got them so far that they never kicked off a second season.
Are you Fred? Let Fred speak for himself.

No connection on that issue whatsoever. The XFL would have ceased operations after the first year of operations if the east/west semifinals were not criss-crossed because of low TV ratings.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Your format forces out-of-conference matchups that make absolutely no sense. This way, we have two great southern AIFA teams facing off with one-another, and a great northern matchup that's quickly turning into one of the bigger rivalries in the game.
You prefer a traditional eastern vs. western format (or north / south format) and that's fine. My proposal DOES make sense because it does allow the two best teams in the league to face each other.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
But no, you'd rather see Canton travel to Lakeland under some computer seeding format that doesn't have the ability to take into account true in-division strength (one or two games out of 13-16 doesn't give you a good gauge on that strength).

Using computers for ranking works best when there is such a large number of teams that having all of the in-conference matchups (with two conferences) really isn't feasible (like high school sports). When all the north teams and all the south teams have easily the ability to play one-another, there's no need to use any sort of computer seeding to decide the playoff matchups.
Agree on the good gauge comment. However, you still get the two best teams in the league to face each other whether a computer is used to seed or not if you criss-cross the final four.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
And I would also like to see how you're going to compensate Canton and Mississippi for the increased travel expenses. While you're at it, I assume you're going to buy the extra 30-50 tickets that those Canton and Mississippi fans aren't going to use because there's no chance they can make the road trip.
What part of my prior message don't you understand? You have fewer interconference matchups to be replaced by a criss-crossed final four.

Not sure about that 30-50 issue. Some other unaffiliated poster said he was inclined to see some new blood in the arena rather than the same opponent. You may be terribly wrong. Let's don't forget the championship game could have two nearby teams (same conference) facing each other which means huge ticket sales possibilities. Those 30-50 tickets could be made up with more games within the conferences during the regular season.

If you prefer the tradition of a east/west or north/south format, just say so...but don't say my proposal isn't feasible when in fact it makes sense more money can be generated with the luxury of having/getting the two best teams in the league to face each other irrespective of their conferences!
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Last edited by ChampionOfSteel; 06-13-2007 at 08:34 AM.
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  #22   IP: 71.74.152.103
Old 06-13-2007, 08:58 AM
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When divisions don't play eachother - and according to your format, teams won't play eachother out of division - how do you know a team in one side is better than the other?

This is the same as pre-interleague baseball...sure, the Indians were 100-44 in the AL, but they weren't as good as Atlanta, which only went 90-54 (remember, that was the season that started late due to the strike).

Under your system that year, in a situation where teams don't play eachother out of conference in a given season, the playoff seedings would have been as follows:

1) Cleveland vs 8 ) Colorado (despite the fact they've never played eachother and have zero common opponents for this to make any sense)

4) Cincinnati vs 5) Seattle (same)

2) Atlanta vs 7) New York Yankees (same)

3) Boston vs 6) Los Angeles (same)

Now, this doesn't go into the fact that I think it's idiotic that Cleveland plays Kansas City 18 times and their two natural geographic rivals, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, six times (in 2007) at most. But for you to say "reseeding is the only way that makes sense" while saying "teams won't play one-another out of division" is nonsense.

For a championship game hosting, because divisions would be separate from one-another, the most fair way (since 9-5 in the North may be better than 12-2 in the South in a given year) to do that would be to alternate the championship hosting conference. If teams don't play one-another, like you proposed...you have no way of knowing if the north rep at 9-5 is better than the south rep at 12-2.

Indoor football teams already have trouble doing things that make sense to fans. Introducing a complex playoff scheme because one person has come on here claiming it's so great...only makes things worse. It's far easier to say "top 4 here, top 4 there, winners of the two tournaments play for the right to be called champion."

Canton fans are excited to go back to Reading to get the shot to redeem the embarrasing home loss (and controversial road one) from earlier this year. Reading fans are excited to get another shot at beating Canton in the conference championship. Under your plan, Reading would get to face Mississippi (hooray?) and Canton's fans would be stuck getting excited about a game no one's going to get any information about until the next day...if Lakeland decides to give that info out in only 24 hours. Sorry, your plan still doesn't cut it.
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  #23   IP: 71.74.152.103
Old 06-13-2007, 09:02 AM
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Here's the bottom line - Familiarity breeds contempt. I remember the 2001 NIFL season...Ohio Valley played Johnstown five times, three in Wheeling.

The highest attended game? THE LAST ONE (by far), where there were about 5000 people at the Wheeling Civic Center. These fans knew what they were going to see, and guess what? THEY CAME ANYWAYS. Why? Everyone in that arena wanted to see Johnstown get its butt kicked again; still one of the best atmospheres I've ever seen in indoor football...and as that was my first game, it's the reason I'm still a fan today.

But no, we don't want to see the same team again that we wanted to beat before. Being fan friendly wouldn't make any sense. Let's send them all across the country without paying any extra travel expenses. That'll generate excitement.
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  #24   IP: 132.49.221.25
Old 06-13-2007, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ChampionOfSteel View Post
You lack vision and the balls to experiment with new ideas.
Most leagues lack the funds to experiment with risky, costly concepts.
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  #25   IP: 24.93.114.252
Old 06-13-2007, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
When divisions don't play eachother - and according to your format, teams won't play eachother out of division - how do you know a team in one side is better than the other?
You won't know if one team is better if there is no crossover during the regular season. The crossover in the final four gets the two best teams in the final. No crossover (or a few rare crossover games) saves up money for the final four crossover.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
This is the same as pre-interleague baseball...sure, the Indians were 100-44 in the AL, but they weren't as good as Atlanta, which only went 90-54 (remember, that was the season that started late due to the strike).

Under your system that year, in a situation where teams don't play eachother out of conference in a given season, the playoff seedings would have been as follows:

1) Cleveland vs 8 ) Colorado (despite the fact they've never played eachother and have zero common opponents for this to make any sense)

4) Cincinnati vs 5) Seattle (same)

2) Atlanta vs 7) New York Yankees (same)

3) Boston vs 6) Los Angeles (same)
I agree with ya brother! You can't compare National League vs. American League very good based only on the World Series matchup.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Now, this doesn't go into the fact that I think it's idiotic that Cleveland plays Kansas City 18 times and their two natural geographic rivals, Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, six times (in 2007) at most. But for you to say "reseeding is the only way that makes sense" while saying "teams won't play one-another out of division" is nonsense.
Irrelevant. MLB has a division/league alignment issue. We are talking about a two pool situation where each team is divided into geographically pools for regular season play.

I'm saying if travel concerns is a huge issue, have save up for the crossover games by reducing the game between conferences in the AIFA regular season.


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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
For a championship game hosting, because divisions would be separate from one-another, the most fair way (since 9-5 in the North may be better than 12-2 in the South in a given year) to do that would be to alternate the championship hosting conference. If teams don't play one-another, like you proposed...you have no way of knowing if the north rep at 9-5 is better than the south rep at 12-2.
Who cares if the north rep is better than the south rep?

The final four would be criss-crossed which allows for teams in the same conference to face each other in the final if the two best teams are in the same conference.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Indoor football teams already have trouble doing things that make sense to fans. Introducing a complex playoff scheme because one person has come on here claiming it's so great...only makes things worse. It's far easier to say "top 4 here, top 4 there, winners of the two tournaments play for the right to be called champion."
Dude, it's not complex at all. This isn't rocket science. This is a case unfamliarity intimidating the newbie. World Hockey does this format to get a fair Gold and Bronze medal game.

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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Canton fans are excited to go back to Reading to get the shot to redeem the embarrasing home loss (and controversial road one) from earlier this year. Reading fans are excited to get another shot at beating Canton in the conference championship. Under your plan, Reading would get to face Mississippi (hooray?) and Canton's fans would be stuck getting excited about a game no one's going to get any information about until the next day...if Lakeland decides to give that info out in only 24 hours. Sorry, your plan still doesn't cut it.
No one wanted to see Michigan vs. Ohio State in the BCS final...again. Your comments are hype. Fans got excited because that was the scenario...so make the best of it.
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Last edited by ChampionOfSteel; 06-13-2007 at 09:41 AM.
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  #26   IP: 24.93.114.252
Old 06-13-2007, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Pounder View Post
Most leagues lack the funds to experiment with risky, costly concepts.
You see risk in adopting THIS format?! Risk is jumping into a pool of sharks with blood in the water. This is the same as scheduling a family vacation for August instead of traditionally in July!

A few travel games normally scheduled in the regular season are now budgeted for the playoffs.

"...fruitcakes in the kitchen! Those crumbs are spread everywhere!" - Buffett lyrics
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Speak up!

Marshal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PbIlQYR1Qs LAAAAAWWWWWW!!!!

Last edited by ChampionOfSteel; 06-13-2007 at 09:42 AM.
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  #27   IP: 24.93.114.252
Old 06-13-2007, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by exit322 View Post
Here's the bottom line - Familiarity breeds contempt. I remember the 2001 NIFL season...Ohio Valley played Johnstown five times, three in Wheeling.

The highest attended game? THE LAST ONE (by far), where there were about 5000 people at the Wheeling Civic Center. These fans knew what they were going to see, and guess what? THEY CAME ANYWAYS. Why? Everyone in that arena wanted to see Johnstown get its butt kicked again; still one of the best atmospheres I've ever seen in indoor football...and as that was my first game, it's the reason I'm still a fan today.

But no, we don't want to see the same team again that we wanted to beat before. Being fan friendly wouldn't make any sense. Let's send them all across the country without paying any extra travel expenses. That'll generate excitement.
Fan friendly my aunt fanny. You tendered the same local opponent in a take it or leave it scenario. This had nothing to do with the fans. This was entirely making the best of fielding a game and keeping travel costs down.

Those fans would have gotten a woody seeing another unfamiliar team come to town as well.

The last time I looked the stadium was still packed when Notre Dame came to Ohio Stadium.
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If you don't let the people with the money know you prefer the NIFL game system, you won't see any stable leagues copying the NIFL game system for your enjoyment!

Speak up!

Marshal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PbIlQYR1Qs LAAAAAWWWWWW!!!!
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  #28   IP: 71.74.152.103
Old 06-13-2007, 09:47 AM
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No one wanted to see OSU/Michigan again? Yeah, if you're watching Florida or USC (before the UCLA game) slanted news coverage. Everyone I talked to up here wanted to see OSU take it to Michigan again, and a heck of a lot of people in Michigan wanted to see them with another shot at a team they probably should have beaten the first time.

There's a lot of risk in this concept. You can't lower travel expenses for teams this way. You've still not explained how you're going to pay for teams to travel an extra 500-1000 miles to a game than otherwise (and "they wouldn't have to in the regular season" doesn't cut it; teams shouldn't be traveling 1000 miles in the regular season, either).

The bottom line: a good league needs its rules decided by the owners collectively. And as someone with experience at a league meeting where owners decided on at least that rule, they're not going to vote for some cockamamie scheme that's going to potentially triple their playoff travel budget...especially when the playoffs usually don't make money for teams at this level anyways (you don't get extra sponsorship money for playoff games, and those sponsors that got a 30-ticket block with their ad usually don't buy them come playoff time).
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  #29   IP: 71.74.152.103
Old 06-13-2007, 09:48 AM
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This is true - because they'll be packed in Ohio Stadium no matter who comes.

That doesn't fly in indoor football. Even the best ownership groups don't sell out every game, and they as such need as much help as they can get. Sending Canton to Lakeland because you think it might be the best matchup doesn't help anyone, especially when Lakeland's already beaten Canton this year...
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  #30   IP: 24.93.114.252
Old 06-13-2007, 09:58 AM
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This is true - because they'll be packed in Ohio Stadium no matter who comes.

That doesn't fly in indoor football. Even the best ownership groups don't sell out every game, and they as such need as much help as they can get. Sending Canton to Lakeland because you think it might be the best matchup doesn't help anyone, especially when Lakeland's already beaten Canton this year...
Reread my family vacation analogy.

If you are trying to say the AIFA wanted to maximize ALL of their minimal travel opportunities you would be dead wrong.

A 14 game season exclusively between a pool of just 7 teams in the north combined with an independently operating pool of 8 teams in the south where no one plays outside of their conference IS possible.

The AIFA did NOT do that.

There were SOME out of conference games. All I'm saying is substitute those games for the final four.
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If you don't let the people with the money know you prefer the NIFL game system, you won't see any stable leagues copying the NIFL game system for your enjoyment!

Speak up!

Marshal! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PbIlQYR1Qs LAAAAAWWWWWW!!!!
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