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  #21   IP: 173.29.192.240
Old 06-11-2009, 07:44 AM
minorleagfan09 minorleagfan09 is offline
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^^^ it is not that simple. sure average d league (attendance...well paid attendance) is around 3500. Elkhart, Indiana averaged between 2500 and 3000 fans (before the team went down... they overspent plus elkhart has damn near the highest unemployment of any city in the USA) and Salina, Kansas could really draw them with the USBL as well. The Arsenal really struggle for attendance..might average like 1k fans.

In any league that plays in any season it has to be about controlling expenses. There is no reason for D League teams to be leasing out arenas that seat 10k to 17k fans.

You can break even right now. Go business to business trying to sell sponsorships at $250, $500, $1000, $2000 a pop instead of 10k 20k 30k etc. Charge full price for all single game purchases and discount the season tickets.

Work local tryouts and run a league draft to get some talent on the rosters.

Its really not that hard if some owners got together with a common cause and ended the nonsense.
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  #22   IP: 208.1.61.82
Old 06-11-2009, 08:08 AM
DazedAndAmused DazedAndAmused is offline
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Originally Posted by minorleagfan09 View Post
^^^ it is not that simple. sure average d league (attendance...well paid attendance) is around 3500. Elkhart, Indiana averaged between 2500 and 3000 fans (before the team went down... they overspent plus elkhart has damn near the highest unemployment of any city in the USA) and Salina, Kansas could really draw them with the USBL as well. The Arsenal really struggle for attendance..might average like 1k fans.

In any league that plays in any season it has to be about controlling expenses. There is no reason for D League teams to be leasing out arenas that seat 10k to 17k fans.

You can break even right now. Go business to business trying to sell sponsorships at $250, $500, $1000, $2000 a pop instead of 10k 20k 30k etc. Charge full price for all single game purchases and discount the season tickets.

Work local tryouts and run a league draft to get some talent on the rosters.

Its really not that hard if some owners got together with a common cause and ended the nonsense.
Recent articles have noted average Dleague attendance at 2500 (not sure if that was paid or butts in seats.) Either way, you're exactly right about playing in 10k+ arenas. It's ridiculous. However, I cannot locate a single case across any league (real league anyway) where a team is even breaking even. A few say they are close, but the ones that are I have noted really don't market or have a front office. They have owner/coaches who essentially try to do it themselves in many cases with low budget players and are playing in front of crowds of 100 or less.

Bottom line, minor league basketball done right is a hobby at best, not a viable business these days. Those of us who like minor league ball better hope the guys with the hobbies are willing to continue to drop their $ in with little hope for return. There simply has been too much dilution, low barrier to entry, and too many ABA-like leagues out there. Everybody thinks they can own a team, and lately, everyone thinks they can run a league. The only good trend as of late seems to be more of a regional push by the new leagues, but even in those cases the teams seem a little too spread out.

If the Dleague can't be successful, that ought to say a lot.
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  #23   IP: 71.43.66.238
Old 06-11-2009, 03:04 PM
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zeke41 zeke41 is offline
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The 10K arenas is a telling point that confirms my thoughts regarding the D-League: The D-League is operating a minor league with a major league business model...i.e. 10K arenas.

Minor leagues are a different beast. You can't operate a minor league the way the D-League has been operating, even if the NBA IS subsidizing. Teams also need more autonomy and creative room to be successful in their given markets. It's my understanding that the NBA has too much say in how the team operates, especially when it comes to players. It's more than just the arenas, too. It impacts the types of sponsorships proposed from these D-League teams, the image they try to present (probably due to being attached to the NBA), and probably the type of players they pursue.

It's the broken record that keeps resounding, but we've all said it: Minor league basketball is broken. The methods being utilized need updating. Something different has to be implemented. New ideals...innovation! That's where I am at anyway!
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  #24   IP: 71.244.140.163
Old 06-11-2009, 03:52 PM
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I agree. I think that the NBDL and all of minor leagues for that matter make a requirement to sign guys who have played one game of college ball. Yea that would do it. 10,000 seat arenas? Who cares. People will pay big money to watch guys with no basketball skills and no basketball resumes play. Now that is thinking outside of the box.
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  #25   IP: 71.43.66.238
Old 06-11-2009, 04:43 PM
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I'm glad you agree!
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"What do your daily actions say about the pursuit of your dreams?"

"Our Dreams are the roadmap that God uses to get us to where He intends for us to be!"

"When I stand before God at the end of my life
I would hope that I would have not a single bit of talent left and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'"

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  #26   IP: 71.90.116.108
Old 06-11-2009, 11:11 PM
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Listening to radio as a kid and dreaming of making that trip to Casper, Wyoming or Lima, Ohio, thinking it would be the neatest thing in the world, thanks to the static-interrupted voice of Greg Allen, the voice of YOUR Wisconsin Flyers on WOSH-AM, Oshkosh.....
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  #27   IP: 198.178.191.2
Old 06-12-2009, 08:20 AM
LightningMan LightningMan is offline
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That does not sound right (IMO). The summer is when people want to be OUT not in, at least that's the case here in Pgh..
It's hotter than Hades during the day in the south. I live in a fairly northern part of the south and it will be 90°F / 32°C outside today, and it's only early June. It is the exact opposite of the north in this regard. People walk the streets in the spring, fall, and winter. People stay inside during the summer.
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  #28   IP: 208.1.61.82
Old 06-12-2009, 08:34 AM
DazedAndAmused DazedAndAmused is offline
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It's hotter than Hades during the day in the south. I live in a fairly northern part of the south and it will be 90°F / 32°C outside today, and it's only early June. It is the exact opposite of the north in this regard. People walk the streets in the spring, fall, and winter. People stay inside during the summer.
That could be a case for spring minor league ball in the South, and the reason why it hasn't been as much of a draw in other regions, head to head with winter ball that is. Personally, I'd much rather be at a baseball game on a 75 degree evening than inside, but if it crosses 90, put me in a gym.
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  #29   IP: 71.182.220.215
Old 06-12-2009, 10:22 AM
psbf psbf is offline
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Ninety is too hot for me, but 75 is good.

My efforts in the summer months go into soccer, which is why I preferr Basketball in the Autumn/Winter. But only one team would get me back into Basketball.
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  #30   IP: 76.193.21.148
Old 06-16-2009, 05:22 PM
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Ken, Steelheads fan Ken, Steelheads fan is offline
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Originally Posted by DazedAndAmused View Post
The spring/summer leagues on average draw 1/2 or less of the fall/winter minor leagues overall. (Check the stats. It's a fact.) Now, if you want to make the case that expenses are less because cheaper players can be had, that's probably reasonable. But, spring/summer is a lesser draw for all the reasons mentioned here, and it is generally the case in most regions of the country. There's nothing wrong with that, but let's not dance around it. That said, leagues like the IBL in particular may offer the best business case, if for no other reason than their teams lose less on average. Losing less might be the best formula for the next few years.
Ahhhhh, something I can finally agree with...almost word for word. However, your use of the word hobby in many other posts makes me want to barf. The sport must be threated like a business at all times or we're going to continue to have teams like the CBA Alley Cats and the PBL Throwbacks. There's nothing wrong with business people enjoying the businesses they're in though. The businesses they're in.
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