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  #41   IP: 68.117.4.90
Old 02-11-2008, 12:44 PM
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preeths preeths is offline
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Originally Posted by radiodavel View Post
my feelings reflect how I feel about the PBL, not the ABA. I have never been to an ABA game and probably will never go, But comparing leagues to each other like is done on this forum is something I have a hard time with. Especially when you say doing this would make that league look like another league.

I have seen every team in the PBL west play though.

I am more than willing to share with anyone who I am, did not know that was required on a forum.
But some comparison with other leagues will always be made and rightly so. I agree with others that constantly comparing the PBL to the ABA alone is useless. The ABA has so lowered the standard for what a professional league should be, that it is nearly meaningless to use it as the sole yardstick. The ABA nearly always loses. Save for maybe the NIFL, no other North American professional league has operated as badly as the ABA. And that's one more reason you touch the schedule as little as possible.

But it is still reasonable to make comparisons with other businesses in the same industry. To use the vernacular of one of our favorite CEOs, Burger King compares itself to McDonalds and other fast food franchisers, Lowes to Home Depot and other building supply businesses, etc. The PBL is a minor league basketball circuit, and right now just about every one of the leagues is having a hard time. Is the PBL struggling more or less? Have they dealt with their problems better or worse than other leagues? What strengths and weaknesses does it have? Compared to other leagues in its same business? Those are all fair questions and comparisons to make.
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  #42   IP: 198.178.191.2
Old 02-11-2008, 12:55 PM
LightningMan LightningMan is offline
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Originally Posted by DazedAndAmused View Post
In retrospect, the league probably wishes it would have an 8 team league, 4 East, 4 West sans Jax/Dallas.
It would have made more sense, although it wouldn't have been possible at the time. Jacksonville was regarded as one of the more stable franchises and the Chicago for Chicago swap was just pure luck that would have allowed for that. In fact, one could argue that if it wasn't for the Throwbacks this whole league would have gone off the rails at the start.
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  #43   IP: 68.117.4.90
Old 02-11-2008, 01:02 PM
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The league did have a contingency in Chicago, though not a great one, so I think the schedule would have been played as announced at that point even if the ABA team didn't move over. The Throwbacks just presented themselves as a better option and saved the league some headaches. From what I've been able to see, Jacksonville really appeared to be a good, stable situation. Even ABA sources vouched for the guy when I asked. I'm not sure anyone could have seen the Jam situation coming in the off-season.
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  #44   IP: 65.11.155.231
Old 02-11-2008, 03:25 PM
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Default PBL Just Wasn't Ready to Play Ball

The obvious in hindsight was that the PBL just wasn't ready to play this year and should have waited to next year.If you recall they couldn't identify the 10 teams to the last moment and the teams from web sites to operations just were not ready.

The PBL needs to finish the season in Dallas and Jacksonville in their respective facilities . Playing the games eleswhere does nothing for the league's good will.
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  #45   IP: 24.199.220.227
Old 02-11-2008, 03:39 PM
DazedAndAmused DazedAndAmused is offline
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I disagree. The first focus should be on completing the schedule wherever it should be.

Second, but distant, would be to assist in salvaging these markets, but the league (I don't think) negotiated the venue deals, so I wouldn't hold them to that...especially when it looks like these owners got in over their heads. What if the Jax owner accrued six figures of venue fees from last yr? Should the league bail him out of that if that's what it took to continue there? No way.

This league is paying all travel and presumably players and coaches for two teams....that is a huge leap in commitment by a league. Bottom line, the league owes it to the other owners to get the schedule played.

The owners owe it to their respective markets to meet their commitments to the community.

In the end, the PBL will shine for their actions this week, but should take criticisms for their admission policies.
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  #46   IP: 74.135.106.138
Old 02-11-2008, 03:59 PM
radiodavel radiodavel is offline
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Default Emperor's Clothing

Do you remember that story...everybody was afraid to tell him he wasn't wearing anything at all. Somebody should have said something about waiting till next year.

I agree with Rider, it might have helped solve the problem

You should listen to the PBL Weekly Show, soon there will be all 10 teams going to Chicago to play at the Throwbacks site. Each team will be giving up at least 1 home game, maybe more. This showcase was just added, am I against the showcase, nope , but for next season. Rescheduling of games to some of you is a problem, here you go.

plus -
Jan 27 rescheduled game between Reading and Maryland - game is rescheduled and not a forfeit - bus broke down

Dallas misses a flight to Wilmington, Wilmington plays PBL Travelling Team (still have not heard who that bunch was) Dallas forfeits the game and to my understanding from the reports the game counts in the standings

playing games in Chicago, without Chicaga being one of the particpants

But I'm afraid Rider we will both play the price for our thoughts.
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  #47   IP: 24.199.220.227
Old 02-11-2008, 05:17 PM
DazedAndAmused DazedAndAmused is offline
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radiodavel, i don't think you will pay any price for your thoughts. nobody here counts!

you opinion is a reasonable view of the situation, but I think it is too simplistic (not you, but your firm standing.) it is a grey issue, not black and white.

here is where i agree with you:
1. pbl rushed and let some "bad" teams in - now they have to deal with it
2. the "showcase" as you describe it (and maybe as designed by the league) leaves something to be desired; (note I didn't hear and I do not believe that all teams will be tossing in a home game.....it will mostly be the struggling dallas and jax teams..chicago will already be there and will participate. i'll take the "told ya so" on this if wrong.) i'm not a huge fan of this overall, except as a remedy for dallas/jax markets that may not be salvageable. in that case, I see it as a reasonable solution to an unreasonable problem. i do not want to see many/any home games moved for other teams building their markets. i do appreciate the honest effort to make lemonade out of lemons here.

where i disagree:
1. that the pbl could have waited a yr; if they had, at least 5 teams in good markets wouldn't be playing at all because they weren't going back to the aba; i could buy into them starting with fewer teams though.
2. that the pbl has handled jax and dallas incorrectly; their actions were the best that they could have been considering
3. that sending a traveling team (that was comprised of an established exhibition squad that included players who have played in the minor leagues and other streetball leagues) to Wilmington was a bad move to replace the Dallas team; there were 2k people slated to come to that game; note that this team was a sanctioned team found by the PBL; they may end up in a more permanent role in the league, playing in preseason exhibitions as well as filling in in the event of other unfortunate circumstance; this is a good minor league move; note that Wilmington personnel understand that this game counted in the league standings; a loss would have been a loss.

if you really want to take a step back and look at the big picture (understanding that you can't turn back the hands of time), they really have made some strong and decisive moves to get their inaugural season played.
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  #48   IP: 68.117.4.90
Old 02-11-2008, 05:23 PM
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Okay, so if the PBL would have waited until next year, what would these teams have done this year? You can't go on hiatus or you risk killing your relationships with sponsors and fans. I don't believe returning to the ABA was an option for various reasons. Then, do the displaced ABA teams play an independent schedule? I'm not sure that option has any fewer challenges than a new league does.

The only better option I see in hindsight would have been to go with more of a regional league. Forget Dallas and Arkansas and try to get a couple more teams in the Midwest for the Illinois teams to play. That cuts the travel budget at least. Of course, that's easy for me to say, but maybe the PBL didn't have any other interested owners in the Midwest. Setting up pods of teams hasn't exactly worked for the ABA. What would you have done if you were the owner of one of the teams leaving the ABA for the PBL?
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  #49   IP: 70.144.122.194
Old 02-11-2008, 06:04 PM
LightningMan LightningMan is offline
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Pay the price? Aren't you being just a touch melodramatic, Davel? The only thing that will happen here is what has happened all along: people will disagree with you.

Not playing could very well have killed the Sea Dawgs this year. Shoot, I was concerned delaying the season until January would do that, but it seems to have worked to their advantage.

Preeths idea of making sure the franchises were closer together sounds pretty good, but then Arkansas, who is doing okay apparently, would have been left out. I think that without psychic prescience the league has done pretty well for year one. Give them a C- minus on vetting and a B+ in crisis control.

Edited to add:

And the whole "Playing games in Chicago without Chicago playing" thing is far from bush league. You do remember that in 2007 the Cleveland Indians played the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in Milwaukee because of the snow out in Cleveland and played a "home" game against Seattle in Seattle for the same reason. Seems to me the PBL model matches that fairly well.

Last edited by LightningMan; 02-11-2008 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Adding Cleveland examples.
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  #50   IP: 75.34.7.188
Old 02-11-2008, 07:14 PM
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Ken, Steelheads fan Ken, Steelheads fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningMan View Post
Edited to add:

And the whole "Playing games in Chicago without Chicago playing" thing is far from bush league. You do remember that in 2007 the Cleveland Indians played the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim in Milwaukee because of the snow out in Cleveland and played a "home" game against Seattle in Seattle for the same reason. Seems to me the PBL model matches that fairly well.
Please tell me you didn't just compare Major League Baseball to the PBL model?!? No one cares about the PBL in Chicago except for family and friends. You can't say the same thing about MLB.
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