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  #11   IP: 147.9.180.226
Old 04-30-2007, 02:05 PM
rams80 rams80 is offline
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Originally Posted by OneBetter View Post
I definitely agree with you on the majority of the fan base in NFL Europa being overseas US military personnel. That's why it makes sense that the teams have basically all flocked to Germany. So what if one or two overseas players fall through the cracks if Europa goes away. It's losing tons of money and it doesn't have an established fan base.

Take the leage back to North America. Put teams in AAA U.S. markets and major Mexican markets. You can still help out the foreign players if that's a huge issue by reserving 3 slots on each team for international players.

Here's a quick list of potential markets:

Salt Lake City, UT
Fresno, CA
Las Vegas, NV
Portland, OR
Mobile or Huntsville, AL
Memphis, TN
San Antonio, TX
Oklahoma City, OK
Quad Cities, IA
Raleigh or Greensboro, NC
Columbus, OH
Los Angeles, CA (if they don't get an NFL team soon)
El Paso, TX
Milwaukee, WI
Baton Rouge, LA
Lincoln, NE
Mexico City, Mexico
Monterrey, Mexico
You didn't listen the first time. The NFL already has its AAA League, and its college football. This too will be a money loser, and there isn't enough available players for a league that big.
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  #12   IP: 132.49.221.25
Old 04-30-2007, 03:25 PM
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Pounder Pounder is offline
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I recall the crowds for USFL and XFL... and perhaps even the WFL of old Portland Storm days. Portland drew somewhat for that, IIRC.

The fact that WLAF receeded from the states is telling. That certainly indicates to me that there's a risk with going with straight-up minor league football.

XFL wasn't really straight-up... from a marketing approach. Vince McMahon had a particular audience. NBC found out that audience didn't translate. That's probably why that failed. I'm not certain that using the XFL as a beacon is a good idea.

Could it work? Not in the NFL / Bowl Subdivision timeframe. Sponsors won't touch that with a 10-meter cattle prod.
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  #13   IP: 67.122.135.2
Old 04-30-2007, 04:46 PM
OneBetter OneBetter is offline
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You didn't listen the first time. The NFL already has its AAA League, and its college football. This too will be a money loser, and there isn't enough available players for a league that big.
Didn't listen? Who made you king? I have the right to my own opinion. Sorry, buddy. Not every one on this board agrees with you, and I certainly don't have to file into line with you. Your behavior is not in line with the rules of this board.

Please be respectful of others.
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  #14   IP: 75.68.223.243
Old 04-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Fells Fells is offline
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You didn't listen the first time. The NFL already has its AAA League, and its college football. This too will be a money loser, and there isn't enough available players for a league that big.
Rams,

Your point could have been made in a less antagonistic tone if you would have left out the first line of your post. Just an FYI.
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  #15   IP: 71.17.132.12
Old 04-30-2007, 11:32 PM
Shootmaster_44 Shootmaster_44 is offline
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Are people more fans of logos or players? (Thank Jim Boutin for couching that question that way)

It's a question worth asking. I grew up a Portland Trail Blazer fan and a Portland Timbers fan. I had to duck being a Blazer fan in the recent "Jail Blazer" years... and I went to my first game in about 5 years around New Years. BTW, people sense a revival in Portland, and while the Blazers didn't make the playoffs, attendance was up by over 1,000 a game.

The Timbers, now a third organization in a third league in what passes for soccer tenure, draws relatively OK for USL-1. Being part of Timbers Army USUALLY means being in contact with players on a regular basis, even if the management tries to de-emphasize the contacts because they fear we're out of control.

The Timbers fans know that players aren't going to sign here if we're going to keep them from signing in MLS. That generally hasn't been a problem, even though the Timbers usually get someone on loan from MLS during any given season. Generally, the roster stays intact.

Conclusion: fans follow teams, but RELATE to players.

Reason I bring this up: NFL Europe is experimental, plays to AMERICAN residents in Europe for the most part (who are on relatively short overseas military tours), and therefore can afford to be developmental. The Canadian league has been around, what, longer than the NFL? I don't think it can be developmental, and I don't think most Canadian fans want to see it be that for reasons mentioned above.
As for me I am became a fan of Frankfurt based on the uniforms and logo. I will say now I actually follow the team.

As for my point about the CFL. Yes it has been around for longer than the NFL in various forms, though the name CFL didn't come into existence until 1958 I believe. However, the CFL and NFL have a "player movement agreement" where CFL players can jump to the NFL in their option year. This agreement was signed in 1995 and at the time the NFL lent the CFL $3,000,000 per team. That loan has long since been paid off and the NFL has given nothing back to the CFL for constantly raiding teams of players. I think its time the NFL allocated some players to each CFL in exchange for its constant raiding of the teams. I'd rather see Kenton Keith play all season for the Riders than sit on practice squad with the Colts.
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  #16   IP: 24.46.227.126
Old 05-23-2007, 04:13 PM
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Strong Island Sound Strong Island Sound is offline
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Being a fan of the many different football leagues (AFL, NFLE, CFL, XFL, USFL), I even have to admit that anything besides the real deal is a huge drop-off. In my opinion, that is why everything else has had such a tough time surviving. The CFL has a good product and will always have a market. The AFL is unique and plays in the spring, so they can probably get by and keep it going. The XFL and USFL came and went, and NFLE is hanging on by a thread.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I'm such a fan of the game that I find myself watching the NFLE games on the NFL Network on weekends at 1 am. And I was probably one of the only people that watched the XFL every week. It was fun stuff, had hot cheerleaders, and Opie & Anthony did the pre-game show on NBC.

But just by watching any games other than the NFL, you can see right away the difference. And that may be why the other leagues can only take it so far.
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  #17   IP: 71.17.132.12
Old 05-25-2007, 10:48 PM
Shootmaster_44 Shootmaster_44 is offline
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Originally Posted by Strong Island Sound View Post
Being a fan of the many different football leagues (AFL, NFLE, CFL, XFL, USFL), I even have to admit that anything besides the real deal is a huge drop-off. In my opinion, that is why everything else has had such a tough time surviving. The CFL has a good product and will always have a market. The AFL is unique and plays in the spring, so they can probably get by and keep it going. The XFL and USFL came and went, and NFLE is hanging on by a thread.

Maybe I am in the minority, but I'm such a fan of the game that I find myself watching the NFLE games on the NFL Network on weekends at 1 am. And I was probably one of the only people that watched the XFL every week. It was fun stuff, had hot cheerleaders, and Opie & Anthony did the pre-game show on NBC.

But just by watching any games other than the NFL, you can see right away the difference. And that may be why the other leagues can only take it so far.
I don't think you can include the CFL in your comparison. Really watching the NFL and watching the CFL in my opinion I don't see a major difference. It could be that I have the Canadian bias and see my country's league through rose coloured glasses. But other than the players being bigger in the NFL, I don't see the NFL players being more talented on the field. I suppose some of the CFL teams carry QBs that are less than accurate. But at every other position, I think you'd be hard pressed to convince me that CFL players make more mistakes than NFL players.

The only major reason I feel that CFL players don't play in the NFL is because of the size difference. Many of the running backs are just as fast and have as many, if not more, moves than their NFL counterparts. Really, I'd say comparing the NFL and CFL is almost like trying to compare rugby and the NFL. Yes the games are similar, but there are some major differences that contribute to the players playing different.

But trust me you're not the only one who will watch NFL Europe at 1 AM on the NFL Network, I do the same. However, generally its only if the Frankfurt Galaxy is playing, I've adopted them as my team over there.

I did lose interest in the XFL, but that was only because they played on the weekends when I had to work. I did watch what I could of the league and enjoyed some of it. I liked how it was similar to the Canadian game in some ways. I also liked how I recognized some of the names from the CFL. What I didn't like was the announcers, the stripper cheerleaders (I frankly don't find cheerleaders to add anything to the game at any level and yes I am a straight male.) and some of the gimmicks like the nicknames on the jerseys and the fumble drill instead of the coin toss. What Vince should've done is presented the league as a normal football league with a few variations, essentially Canadianize the American game. He should've hired legitimate announcers for the games, hired a decent studio team. Basically, the tv presentation should've looked like the AFL on NBC. If he had done that and tried to attract the football audience, not the WWE audience the league would likely still be playing today.
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  #18   IP: 84.61.92.70
Old 05-26-2007, 12:55 PM
Mullah Rouge Mullah Rouge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBetter
I definitely agree with you on the majority of the fan base in NFL Europa being overseas US military personnel.
?????? - just one question: have you ever been to an NFLE game?

OK, let me answer for you: no, and actually, i have no idea, what kinda fan base the NFLE has.

nothing personal, but this 'fan base thing' is just way off.

have a nice day
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