OSC

OSC message Boards

As the home for independent and minor league sports, OurSports Central's message boards are the perfect place to discuss your favorite teams and leagues with other fans, players and team and league administrators. Our boards cover all the leagues represented on OSC including independent and minor league baseball, indoor and Arena football, outdoor and indoor lacrosse, mens and womens basketball, junior and minor league hockey, outdoor and indoor soccer and more. Before posting for the first time, please consult our FAQ. Contact us with any questions.

OurSports Central independent and minor league sports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11   IP: 24.248.161.158
Old 01-02-2018, 03:40 PM
nksports nksports is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newton, KS (the land of Oz)
Posts: 3,652
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
There aren't even 32 NFL-caliber quarterbacks in the NFL.
RGIII and "The QB Who Must Not Be Named" are still out there, rested and ready.
And when the NFL terminates its contract with Papa John's over Papa John's bat$#!^ craziness, the XFL has a title sponsor.
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 72.192.230.73
Old 01-02-2018, 04:10 PM
fonzob1 fonzob1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nksports View Post
RGIII and "The QB Who Must Not Be Named" are still out there, rested and ready.
And when the NFL terminates its contract with Papa John's over Papa John's bat$#!^ craziness, the XFL has a title sponsor.
I think Vince is planning on going for a mandatory stand for the anthem rule, so "the QB who must not be named" is probably not an option on the table.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 68.231.10.103
Old 01-02-2018, 09:01 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,123
Default

The average NFL salary is just south of $2M. Now, we all know there is not much of a middle class anymore in the post-1993 free agency era, but. still, to pick off NFL free agents, you're going to have to spend millions just to get in the door. And for a recognizable player? Way more (remember, you'd have to outbid the NFL for the guy). For a recognizable player who can actually move the needle and maybe get you some return? Pfffft. Multiple millions.

And depending on the player's position, you're going to need to support him by spending money in some other places.

Bottom line: the $100M McMahon will realize from the stock sale won't even get them close to relevance.

And fans in cities that have lost NFL teams wanted to see *NFL* football. Not crap football played by players who are not even close to being good enough for the NFL.
__________________
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 72.192.230.73
Old 01-02-2018, 09:16 PM
fonzob1 fonzob1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
The average NFL salary is just south of $2M. Now, we all know there is not much of a middle class anymore in the post-1993 free agency era, but. still, to pick off NFL free agents, you're going to have to spend millions just to get in the door. And for a recognizable player? Way more (remember, you'd have to outbid the NFL for the guy). For a recognizable player who can actually move the needle and maybe get you some return? Pfffft. Multiple millions.

And depending on the player's position, you're going to need to support him by spending money in some other places.

Bottom line: the $100M McMahon will realize from the stock sale won't even get them close to relevance.
I agree with all of that, but if he doesn't invest in players that people recognize the league is certain to die a slow death. He will have no chance at a television contract, or drawing more than a few thousand people at games, if his business model is simply to live off of the NFL's scraps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
And fans in cities that have lost NFL teams wanted to see *NFL* football. Not crap football played by players who are not even close to being good enough for the NFL.
Everyone wants *NFL* football. But, those markets I mentioned ain't got it no more. All they got is bitterness now.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 68.231.10.103
Old 01-03-2018, 10:00 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzob1 View Post
I agree with all of that, but if he doesn't invest in players that people recognize the league is certain to die a slow death.
But he's gonna need way more than $100M to do that.

My point is this is destined to fail anyway.

In 1960, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 1974, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 1983, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 2018, you cannot poach NFL players and draft picks. Not when your nest egg is 2/3 of what one NFL team spends on wages.

Quote:
He will have no chance at a television contract, or drawing more than a few thousand people at games, if his business model is simply to live off of the NFL's scraps.
And this is what I'm saying.

This is why alternative football can't work.

You can't get enough of a return on investment or withstand the inevitable salary inflation that comes from bidding wars. And you can't generate sufficient revenue from TV or ticket sales if you don't do that. It's a lose-lose situation.

Quote:
Everyone wants *NFL* football. But, those markets I mentioned ain't got it no more. All they got is bitterness now.
And that ain't enough to go on as a business model. Because watching not-good-enough players doesn't salve those wounds.
__________________
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 72.192.230.73
Old 01-03-2018, 10:37 PM
fonzob1 fonzob1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
But he's gonna need way more than $100M to do that.
I have to imagine he knows that. He dropped about $65 million the first time around back in 2001.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
My point is this is destined to fail anyway.

In 1960, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 1974, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 1983, you could poach NFL players and draft picks.
In 2018, you cannot poach NFL players and draft picks. Not when your nest egg is 2/3 of what one NFL team spends on wages.
He wouldn't be able to snake many NCAA prospects, but if he was able to secure just a couple, it would generate some publicity and potentially some revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
And this is what I'm saying.

This is why alternative football can't work.

You can't get enough of a return on investment or withstand the inevitable salary inflation that comes from bidding wars. And you can't generate sufficient revenue from TV or ticket sales if you don't do that. It's a lose-lose situation.
I agree. But, like I said, if Vince wants to sink his money into it for a season or two, I will watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
And that ain't enough to go on as a business model. Because watching not-good-enough players doesn't salve those wounds.
This is just a "best chance" scenario. It might motivate some consumers that are bitter towards the NFL.
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 216.199.195.121
Old 01-04-2018, 03:54 PM
nksports nksports is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Newton, KS (the land of Oz)
Posts: 3,652
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzob1 View Post
It might motivate some consumers that are bitter towards the NFL.
The best way to do that is have Hacksaw Jim Dugan go around the stadia with his 2X4 and waving the American Flag to the tune of entrance music "Real American." For the players protesting, and just to create heel heat, they could have the Iron Sheik and the Russian Assassins address the crowd to disrespect the flag and the US in general.
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 72.192.230.73
Old 01-04-2018, 04:18 PM
fonzob1 fonzob1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nksports View Post
The best way to do that is have Hacksaw Jim Dugan go around the stadia with his 2X4 and waving the American Flag to the tune of entrance music "Real American." For the players protesting, and just to create heel heat, they could have the Iron Sheik and the Russian Assassins address the crowd to disrespect the flag and the US in general.
I don't even know if any of those guys are still alive.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 68.231.10.103
Old 01-06-2018, 11:39 AM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,123
Default

"Might" get a couple of NCAA prospects and "might" get some people to watch is not a business plan.

If he does, indeed, decide to go along with this, it will fail - again - and miserably.

Because the effort and money necessary to really make it even come close to looking like it's a realistic option for sufficient numbers of people to buy tickets and/or watch on television are so far north of $100M that it's insane.

And it doesn't appear like he knows he doesn't have enough money to mount this assault, does it? Not if the reports are anywhere close to accurate.

You can have a football league. You can have 22 players on the field at any given time, some of which the average person might say, "Oh, I think I remember that guy from the Rose Bowl, maybe." You can stage games. You can do all those things. It's been done.

But you can't do it for any appreciable length of time and you can't do it without losing scads of money.

For all the caterwauling about the <2% of NFL players who stage silent, peaceful, Constitutionally protected protests against injustice, Pissed Off White America is simply not going to watch the 50th-best quarterback in the country throw to the 120th-best receiver in the country on TV, or pay to go watch them play catch just because they have their city's name in the logo on the helmet.

Been proven time and time and time again.
__________________
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 72.192.230.73
Old 01-06-2018, 12:23 PM
fonzob1 fonzob1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Hill View Post
"Might" get a couple of NCAA prospects and "might" get some people to watch is not a business plan.

If he does, indeed, decide to go along with this, it will fail - again - and miserably.

Because the effort and money necessary to really make it even come close to looking like it's a realistic option for sufficient numbers of people to buy tickets and/or watch on television are so far north of $100M that it's insane.

And it doesn't appear like he knows he doesn't have enough money to mount this assault, does it? Not if the reports are anywhere close to accurate.

You can have a football league. You can have 22 players on the field at any given time, some of which the average person might say, "Oh, I think I remember that guy from the Rose Bowl, maybe." You can stage games. You can do all those things. It's been done.

But you can't do it for any appreciable length of time and you can't do it without losing scads of money.

For all the caterwauling about the <2% of NFL players who stage silent, peaceful, Constitutionally protected protests against injustice, Pissed Off White America is simply not going to watch the 50th-best quarterback in the country throw to the 120th-best receiver in the country on TV, or pay to go watch them play catch just because they have their city's name in the logo on the helmet.

Been proven time and time and time again.
I don't disagree with much of what you said. I just think if he is intent on doing it despite the financial losses, he needs to go big instead of following the FXFL model.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Hapening ImgHappening Now