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-   -   ...the Explosion look to be back with the IBL?? (//www.oursportscentral.com/boards/showthread.php?t=11703)

homeboypla 07-02-2008 08:00 PM

...the Explosion look to be back with the IBL??
 
I am so <removed by admin> PISSED OFF I could punch a CHILL PLAYER - possibly Marco Morgan (the ghost of the chill).

Forget the Explosion then I will not be a fan next year two season tickets down the drain. I just got off the phone with the Explosion director of tickets as I was trying to see what is going on and she said that she expect the Explosion to return to the IBL next year and that the organization has worked out a few issues with the commissioner looser Michael Dulio.

She said that the Explosion will be working a bunch of fairs and other events and that the Monroe Highschool is still being worked out also.

What happened to a new league?? I was so hoping for the better not worst and worst each year.

Is the IBL fee less this upcoming year or possibly new ownership of the league ? I could not see the Explosion coming back with everything being equal.

Something is not right here I know that something must be going on... Anyone have a clue???

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

DazedAndAmused 07-02-2008 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeboypla (Post 95812)
I am so fuwocking PISSED OFF I could punch a CHILL PLAYER - possibly Marco Morgan (the ghost of the chill).

Forget the Explosion then I will not be a fan next year two season tickets down the drain. I just got off the phone with the Explosion director of tickets as I was trying to see what is going on and she said that she expect the Explosion to return to the IBL next year and that the organization has worked out a few issues with the commissioner looser Michael Dulio.

She said that the Explosion will be working a bunch of fairs and other events and that the Monroe Highschool is still being worked out also.

What happened to a new league?? I was so hoping for the better not worst and worst each year.

Is the IBL fee less this upcoming year or possibly new ownership of the league ? I could not see the Explosion coming back with everything being equal.

Something is not right here I know that something must be going on... Anyone have a clue???

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

yep, there are no better summer league options. this is the nature of summer minor leagues in particular and minor leagues in general. expect more issues not less from the ibl due to increased economic pressures across the board. but there still will not be better options, aside from not playing at all which more teams will probably opt to do. as far as the winter leagues, only those with the most streamlined business models will weather the storm, unless they are subsidized by the NBA. the aba will continue to be a laughing stock. the cba needs a total retooling and probably a year or two off to have a chance. the pbl has the loftiest goals and is full of newmanists as they say, but they at least seem to have secured some sort of national sponsors that may ensure they can play their season. (the tv deal will be most interesting about them.) we'll see....but expect more turmoil.

iblvoice 07-20-2008 07:46 PM

State of the IBL
 
What is all of the fuss about-

Every game that was supposed to be played was played. Teams did better in attendance than in any other year- granted not by much- but by a little bit overall (some teams were up a lot and some teams were down a little). Media coverage was the best it has ever been. The playoffs were efficient and they were effective. We were even international and that was a lot of fun for the fans... so relax, things were good. Expansion for 2009 is small- as it should be- it is nearly impossible to make money doing this so why should the IBL expand aggressively? The IBL is happy to have returning teams with real experience, as opposed to new teams who think this is easier than it is and then those new teams go out and lose tons of money and run into all sorts of problems.

Hey if you do not like the IBL, that is okay but as far as American minor leagues go- I guess you could say, 'relatively speaking', I really believe it is the best minor league system around- the IBL game is fast, fun, in perspective, bright, colorful, community oriented (done in under 2 hours) and our business model per team is the most efficient financially... and again, the IBL game is colorful/visually great to watch.

Also, no one is getting over on anyone... so I should correct a few items-
1. Are the Highflyers fake, your call. Here are the facts- there will be a 2009 team called the Highflyers and were there some 2008 games played with those uniforms (very nice uniforms) and they used that name; One thing the IBL prides ourselves on is that every game occurs, we do not cancel games- so when China was late, we needed a fill in team... so fake? I don't think of it like that... I will say this- the IBL was not and is not hiding anything with regards to the Highflyers.
2. Did the IBL 'divert' funds to the west teams to prop them up? The IBL is not an association, it is a business and the IBL can spend revenues as it sees fit so 'diverting' is not an option. I can say this- an IBL west team (meaning a team owned by the IBL) lost some money (spent more than the team brought in), so I guess the answer is a west team did in fact use some IBL resources, sure... but those were IBL resources.
3. Are there really teams conspiring to start thier own league? Yes, absolutely... wouldn't you if you were losing money? But as they compare staying in the IBL versus switching leagues or starting thier own league, it is really hard to beat the IBL's one flight guarantee, 12 to 14 different opponents on their schedule and the guarantee that teams will show up- and in fact- the teams will show up dressed in great uniforms... so as one blogger put it- the alternative is really not to start another league (the IBL is not profitable even after 4 years)- the alternative is to simply not play American minor league basketball.
4. Gary not going to playoffs- does the IBL care? The IBL believes the main obligation is to show up to your opponents home games, then to run your own home games and after the regular season (your obligation) is completed, and only if you have enough money to do this- compete in the playoffs; in other words playoffs are optional b/c when we (IBL) studied the history of playoffs back in 2003 (we studied the history of many leagues before we built the IBL model), it was found that playoffs was almost always the final straw for teams struggling to go out of business.
5. As for encouraging 'free' players, here is the deal; in certain markets with 1 million to 6 million population, runing a minor professional basketball team is going to be a huge financial struggle (because the team might get lost in that city's shuffle) so if an owner in a big city wants to do this AND it can benefit players who already live in that city by giving them exposure/opportunity/fun, AND IF that owner can only keep it going with free players and coaches, perhaps that owner might consider being a non-profit association and run the team for the players and for the community. In the really big cities, the population is big enough to where you can pretty easily find the players who would want to be a part of something as fun as the IBL. For the record though, the IBL prefers normal, paid players either because the market bears it, or because the ownership group is well off enough to pay players by choice.
6. As for the Commissioner having the final say on all issues and rulings, sure-yes- but remember, the IBL is a pay to play league- a business- and most businesses are owned by one person who has final say. Also, there are natural market forces preventing any business from being abusive with customers so in the IBL, if a Commish is terrible- the IBL loses customers. So trust that decisions are made in good faith to better the members and as well, there are natural market forces preventing unfair treatment.

This is my first time blogging, not sure I will be back, but thanks for letting me explain that there is no giant conspiracy and letting me explain that really- the IBL can only do so much... the IBL looks forward to another good season.

turbocamyes 07-21-2008 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iblvoice (Post 96796)
1. Are the Highflyers fake, your call. Here are the facts- there will be a 2009 team called the Highflyers and were there some 2008 games played with those uniforms (very nice uniforms) and they used that name; One thing the IBL prides ourselves on is that every game occurs, we do not cancel games- so when China was late, we needed a fill in team... so fake? I don't think of it like that... I will say this- the IBL was not and is not hiding anything with regards to the Highflyers.

In regards to West Coast being a “fake” team—the Flyers used 40 players over 5 games and their first two games against the USA All-Stars (#3 & #9) looks as if both teams exchanged uniforms between games. Eight All-Stars in game 3 played for the Flyers in game 9, and 5 of the Flyers in game 3 played for the All-Stars in game 10. While I don’t object to a traveling team, I do when the league props up a “legitimate” team such as the High Flyers by simply rotating in a pool of players meant for a different purpose. If you needed a fill-in team, why bother changing the name of the team to West Coast, Olympia or Southern Oregon, when the players are pulled from the traveling team?

As for the All-Stars, of the 17 games with boxscores, I have 121 different players, of which only 6 played more than 2 games for them. Also, over 30 All-Stars played significant minutes for some of the remaining “legitimate” teams, suggesting that they were loaned out when the two teams met. This happened in the past when a mid-western team traveled to the west coast, but if the point of the All-Stars was to improve or showcase the talents of players, why so many different players?

(As a side note, the standings show a record of 1-21, but the Game Results page list only 20 games played. Did another fill-in team’s losses get applied to the All-Stars’ record?)

preeths 07-21-2008 10:59 AM

Labeling the playoffs as "efficient," are you a politician? Play the entire schedule, including the postseason, as you promise. That should be the goal of every league. Sorry, the IBL doesn't get a free pass on that one.

mammal 07-21-2008 11:48 AM

Homeboy is stiring the pot because he feels wronged by the IBL in some way. Take what he says with a grain of salt.

Compare the IBL with the other minor leagues. Try to be objective. What league is truly better and better run at the top? (take out the D League) CBA, WBA, ABA, USBL, all are suspect at best. The PBL looks impressive but this will only be their second year. The IBL will be entering year five in 2009Is it a perfect league, of course not. I would love to see more of a focus put on the playoffs and have a real all-star game but that costs $$$$ Minor league sports is a brutal business. The IBL played all it's games this year. The talent level gets better every year. The referees, overall, are good. Should it be a surprise some teams are looking for a new league? Of course not...this is the minor leagues. This happens in every league. Bottom line is the IBL is fine and will be back for season five in 2009.

Pounder 07-21-2008 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iblvoice (Post 96796)
6. As for the Commissioner having the final say on all issues and rulings, sure-yes- but remember, the IBL is a pay to play league- a business- and most businesses are owned by one person who has final say. Also, there are natural market forces preventing any business from being abusive with customers so in the IBL, if a Commish is terrible- the IBL loses customers. So trust that decisions are made in good faith to better the members and as well, there are natural market forces preventing unfair treatment.

Actually, I want to pick apart the whole post, but I don't have time yet. For instance, I'm surely NOT convinced that the IBL is big enough to foster a giant conspiracy. However, this paragraph comes to mind.

From here on in, I'm simply going to assume that "one person final say" leagues are prone to abuse. They clearly don't reach their potential. The main problem- one person can think outside the box, but they usually end up creating their own box. Owners with a STAKE in the proceedings have half a chance of working through messes together. Single-owner leagues depend more on selling franchises than on making the model work.

The other thing... the comment on diverting funds to west coast teams. Here's the issue: Duilio owns more than one of them. Other owners in that division were begging out, not really stating their reasons, so what are we to think other than this? I smell a conflict of interest.

Finally... you're getting away from what should be the league's strength. Tight pods, tight scheduling. Edmonton is clearly a cash grab, and a long way from the other Northwest teams. Maintaining a division with Vegas and LA plus Portland and Central Oregon... big FAIL. This organization has lost its way... with principles that seemed like they could work if you'd work on maintaining them rather than trying in vain to sell franchises. I think there's a chance to turn this around, BTW... but not with the mindset being displayed.

turbocamyes 07-21-2008 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mammal (Post 96827)
The IBL played all it's games this year.

Not really—I took the original schedule posted on OSC on opening day:

Twenty-three games were rescheduled with existing or fill-in teams, 2 games rescheduled for a new date, and 5 simply disappeared:

5/11 Portland vs C Oregon
6/01 Grand Rapids vs Portland
6/05 Holland vs Grand Rapids
6/19 Battle Creek vs Grand Rapids
6/21 Gary vs Grand Rapids

Granted, even if the fill-in teams (USA 3, West Coast 2, Olympia 2, and S Oregon 2) hadn't shown up, the league would still have played more that 93% of its games, which is better than some leagues. But it is not correct to say it played all of its games.

besl 07-21-2008 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pounder (Post 96828)
Finally... you're getting away from what should be the league's strength. Tight pods, tight scheduling. Edmonton is clearly a cash grab, and a long way from the other Northwest teams. Maintaining a division with Vegas and LA plus Portland and Central Oregon... big FAIL. This organization has lost its way... with principles that seemed like they could work if you'd work on maintaining them rather than trying in vain to sell franchises. I think there's a chance to turn this around, BTW... but not with the mindset being displayed.


I think the league was put in a bit of a lurch when Santa Barbara left the league and Phoenix decided not to play just a couple months before the season was set to start. Those two teams would have made a decent four-team pod in the Southwest with L.A. and Vegas. Now, though, I think it would behoove the IBL to scrap L.A. and Vegas and focus their efforts on strengthening the group of teams in Oregon, perhaps by trying to resurrect Salem and Eugene. That would make a good Southwest Division which could go against what should be a solid Northwest Division in '09.

Elkhart_Fan 07-21-2008 05:04 PM

Hummm....IBLVOICE = Dulio? The post is pretty suspicious....Why not just come out and say who you are instead of hiding behind a fake username?


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