Can Baseball in Canada Work?

[Silver Sox Fan]

OK, before this is branded "OT", I decided to post this because the GBL has expressed interest in expanding to many markets, one of which was Canada.

Anyway, I'm on vacation in Vancouver and I was going to see the Vancouver Canadians (Short Season A affiliate of the As). They were rained out today so I will try again on Friday. They play at Nat Bailey Stadium which was home to the AAA Vancouver Canadians so that speaks to the history of baseball in the area.

Long story short...all of the pro baseball teams have left or will leave for the States by the end of the year except for Toronto (MLB), Vancouver (A Short Season), and 3 indy league teams in Edmonton, Calgary, and Quebec City.

Now, without rehashing the extremely painful post on how attendance is determined, the other minor league teams seem to draw well in an apples to apples comparison to, say, the GBL in 2006:

Quebec 3295
Vancouver 3259
Edmonton 1465 (2104 so far this year)
Calgary 1088 (1388 so far this year)

Now the reasons I have read for the teams failing or moving is weak Canadian dollar (which no longer seems to be the case since it is basically 1 to 1 with the USD) and the high government taxes. But I assume there has to be more to it than that. And Canada seems to produce a lot of guys for the MLB so the kids are playing it here.

So I have two questions for discussion:

1. Why doesn't baseball succeed in Canada? And is it correctable?

2. Can the GBL be successful if it were to expand there in a couple of years?

[Pietsch Fan]

The NL also has a team in Winnipeg. And there is talk of a team in Saskatoon (sp?). I don't think baseball fares well up there because they'd rather watch hockey. Just like soccer doesn't fare well here because we'd rather watch anything else.

Mary

[RW22]

I am from Canada---the answear is NO
I would love to see baseball in BC, Abbottsford -really. I dont see it working for the costs involved. The only way that BC/Canada can be in the league would be if they fly. The taxes alone just would not make sense. If they could find a team in Bellingham, so that they may bus across the border, you might have a chance. Other than that, or a corporate airline to discout airline tickets--its not going to happen. A great thought, but just not practical at this climate.

[Silver Sox Fan]

So, RW22, can you talk a little more about the costs involved? For example, how do the other minors make it work? Quebec and Vancouver are all alone in their divisions with the rest of the teams in the U.S. Vancouver may get money from the big club or have less costs since they get the players for free but why is Quebec so successful--or are they? Are they making enough that the taxes don't put them in the red?

And since you are from here, what do Canadians think of baseball? I mean it really only runs the same time as the CFL so there is no NHL conflict.

[GBLCommish]

Hi Silver Sox Fan,

Thanks for checking in during your vacation with another interesting question. The one Canadian ballclub you left out of your list is currently the most successful in Canada -- the Winnipeg Goldeyes of the independent Northern League. Mayor Sam Katz owns the team and brought it to the city in 1994. They have played in 7 Northern League Championship Series but only won the single title that they took in their inauguaral season. The team replaced the Rochester Aces who had been a charter member of the Northern League that folded after the first season (one of 11 NoL teams no longer in the league) and has had tremendous fan support. They average over 6000 in announced attendance in the 7400 seat CanWest Global Park.

As for the Triple-A departures from Canada, I think it is more due to the distance and inconveniences of the MLB teams having their top farm clubs in a separate county. The Edmonton Trappers, the Calgary Cannons, and the Vancouver Mounties/Canadiens all drew well and were successful when in Triple-A even with the tough early season weather.

Nat Bailey Stadium, formerly Capilano Park, is over 50 years old but is a fine old-time baseball stadium now hosting a team in the short-season Northwest League -- it's my favorite large minor league stadium in Canada. The current team draws very well for a rookie level team as they regularly average over 3000 fans per game each year in the 6500 seat park. I believe they are playing Spokane (Rangers affiliate) at the moment -- if you go, watch for a Japanese pitcher on Spokane team by the name of Keisuke Ueno -- he was signed by the GBL out of high school in 2005 and was a member of the Samurai Bears that year, we sold his contract to the Texas Rangers at the end of the season.

Also, you'll see a number of White Spot Drive-In restaurants around Vancouver -- be sure to take the family to eat at one as their Triple-O burgers have been considered the best in western Canada for decades and the founder of the restaurant, Nat Bailey, used his profits to bring the original Triple A Mounties to Vancouver as the driving force of their first ownership group and had the stadium named after him when he passed away.

There are a number of smaller, former minor league ballparks in western Canada (some very near Vancouver) that could form the basis of a Northern GBL Division over time -- Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Medicine Hat, and Lethbridge all have ballparks that have hosted minor league teams. Both Kamloops and Kelowna are about a 200 mile drive Northeast of Vancouver so it may be tough for you to see them on this trip.

Best Regards,
Kevin Outcalt
Commissioner
Golden Baseball League
925-226-2896

[Silver Sox Fan]

Wow, thanks for all the info, Kevin. As always, very informative. You seem to have a direct download on every stat, player, team, and schedule at any given time with or without your computer--very impressive. You're the Mel Kiper Jr of baseball in my opinion! Sorry, had football on the mind thinking of attending a BC Lions game tomorrow.

I will definitely give a Triple-O a try and tell the story you gave me! We probably won't be able to see those other stadiums, but it is nice to see Canada has a storied past with baseball--hopefully the GBL can resurrect some of those areas and create a whole new history.

And I can't believe I forgot Winnipeg...guess I figured the town disappeared when the Jets moved to Phoenix

[dmbishop]

I remember that a few years ago there was an attempt at starting a Canada-only league. It was coast to coast and I think it died before the first season finished. I guess that travel costs were just too high.

[RW22]

A great drop for White Spot Drive In!!! Some of the best, bad for you, food on the planet!!

Do stop in and try the Onion Rings!!

[RW22]

Im not sure of the Quebec situation...but I do know that vancouver does has some cost saving travel partners. A team in general would have to pay "import" taxes on travel. If you, as you are now I think, travel by air to Canada, there is is about a $56 fee per person added to your ticket. Multiply that by a typical 28 person travelling squad, and you can see where that might be a problem. Minor leagues have a tight enough budget and to have to pay the extra fees to really hamsting operations. Canadiens LOVE baseball...not as much as hockey mind you, but they really do like the game.
I would love the GBL to expand to Abbottsford or Victoria, but they would have to have some other team in proximity to make it work. Heck, for So Cal, Reno to Yuma is a real tough grind!
Have a great rest of your vacation!
RW

[Pounder]

Northwest League is generally by bus (same is true of the Western Hockey League, BTW), so Vancouver doesn't worry too much about traveling. Trips to Boise can run 12 hours, however (though I can do it in 10 in my Honda).

Everett is about 100 miles south of Vancouver. As such, Keizer is about 200 miles south of Everett (but right on the freeway), then add another 67 miles to make Eugene (nowhere near the freeway). Yakima is only 160 miles from Everett, so most of the eastern division isn't too darn far.

Kelowna is a lovely place, but it's not easy to get to, even from Vancouver. Really, there are several markets south of the 49th for which the GBL should first consider... though I wonder, for the sake of BC possibilities, if a Northwestern indy league wouldn't better serve that population.