mobile not going to lake charles

[Gusher]

Originally Posted by Caballo Diablo

It's better than living it.

Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.

People are still trying to figure out where to put you on the ladder. You started with the original SIFL. Saw the B.S. and were screwed yourself. Now you've gone back to support the B.S.?

I would want to know where that ladder is leading me to before I would want to answer that question.

[Caballo Diablo]

Originally Posted by robster2001

Quick clarification or two...
I was talking a specific instance - you're expanding to the general case.

Last night, Swashbucklers fans were not screwed - they paid for a game, they got a game.

Now, are Mobile fans being screwed? Yes. Houston fans (if we can find any)? Yes.

Most in the thread have been speaking to the league as a whole and the direction, or lack of, that the leadership have taken.

I agree, most of the `Buc fans could care less. They've accepted the make-up teams as opponents for years and only care about the "W." Three titles in a row was all that mattered and they were shocked last season. The only thing that mattered to them was getting back to the title no matter who was put on the field.

A league can't live by one team alone, it just becomes a joke. It looks like the man behind the curtain figured that out and was smart enough to sell the carpet bag full of tricks. Now he only has to worry about one team and still has the power to have his team be the only one that matters. Pretty neat trick.

Originally Posted by robster2001

...and then reality set in. There's no money in minor league football. I'm "only" a fan and I figured that out years ago. You guys who are closer to the business have to know that.

Exactly, it's more of an expensive hobby.

Many didn't believe the reasons Mr. H opted not to join his former compadres and start his own league. For the moment lets say his intentions and spiel were honest. His idea came from the fact there's no money in the sport. Build a league that was viable for less expense. A regional league with close travel was supposed to be a priority. Cheaper league fees with more league support. This would enable them to expand ownership opportunites to people/groups that either couldn't afford or were unwilling to previously spend that much on their hobby.

At face value it sounds great, but so does that diet supplement that will magically reduce your weight with no effort or diet change. Once again, we can all form our own opinion on what took place.

The lower cost of running/owning a franchise shouldn't lesson the vetting process. It might make it more important as you court under funded and inexperienced ownership. Some feel it would have been best to wait a year while building a foundation for the league instead of rushing it just to save a dark season for the `Bucs. But was it ever about what was best for the league or only what was best for the `Bucs and their owner?

As the start of year one approached it seems things were behind schedule and not going well. Did this force them to accept pretenders into the league or did they ever really care? When they couldn't find enough teams after their franchise fire sale was it wise to court and accept Florida? A travel only team nowhere near the league footprint? Do you think this ownership welcomed the expense of traveling out of state every week never to have a home game to sell tickets for? Or do you think the league promised some type of financial help to cover the costs of being a long distance patsy? was anyone really surprised it didn't work out? Is it a coincidence that they only played one game, against the `Bucs?

Then we pick up an IIAF semi-pro team to fill in as their patsy. At first it seemed like a good quick move to fill games tickets had already been sold for. But hindsight shows it became a regular scheduling practice over the years as they became an "Honory" member of the league. When promises to them fell through they were unable to complete the schedule due to travel costs. No worry, the man behind the curtain could just find other local patsies to fill in at much lower travel costs. Good idea if it's a short term fix, bad idea when it becomes part of the league weekly/yearly structure.

Does any of this affect fans? A team hits town and they need to rely on existing fans of the sport to jump start the fanbase. Many loved the game and had followed differing leagues/teams. Many had lived in the market of a previous team(s) and were happy for anything. They tried to be understanding of the growing pains and tried not to think about them and just enjoy the entertainment in front of them. Soon it becomes harder to avoid than a bad marriage, at some point you realize sucking hind teet for a few moments of pleasure isn't worth it. It gets old giving your all to someone that doesn't care and constantly spits and laughs at you.

Agreed, the diehards are a small percentage of the total butts in seats. But most teams/markets I've been around have to give credit to the diehards for spreading the word, promoting the team/sport to anyone that would listen. Most full time fans I know constantly got others to come out and experience the game firsthand.

As the B.S. and poor product mounts the casual fans stop coming. Most casual fans don't enjoy blow out after blow out. Sure, they like winning but are more fans of entertainment than the 50 yard game itself. A larger problem is it's the new markets in need of a fanbase getting blown out. Not the existing successful teams. The diehards stop trying to convince friends and family to attend and the casual fan shurgs their shoulder and moves to something else.

Markets can only take so many teams and poor treatment before they stop caring. Expanding to new markets year after year only works when the previous years markets/teams were successful and remain in the league. If you can't sustain more than a couple of real teams year after year it's recipe for failure. well, unless you can sell it to someone and walk away. Then I guess it does make sense to not care about the customers. One owner tries to build a vehicle to save his own team, he sells to another that just waits for another deal to come to fruition hoping the lipstick doesn't wear off before the new suitor consummates the marriage. Will the third owner make the existing markets/fans happy or just pillage and burn the customers and repeat history?

Originally Posted by robster2001

Does that excuse Hager? No. If the reports here are true, he's not exactly the most ethical person in business today. It's just odd that his personality type keeps winding up in charge of sports leagues...

Odd but true.

[Caballo Diablo]

Originally Posted by robster2001

On the other hand, you seem to have equated the Swashbuckers to the SIFL. Not sure you can separate them now...

Yes, the Swashbucklers are the league. Their owner built the SIFL just to keep the `Bucs on the field. Trouble is one team alone does not make a league. You need someone to beat every week, which takes at least a handfull of teams. Other leagues have tried to create a league by owning most of the teams themselves. The SIFL realized this was too expensive and chose to accept anyone that had a high school gym and a couple of helmets. It was easy to manipulate the under funded inexperienced people giddy at owning a team. Sell a little snake oil, a few pats on the back, and that worthless franchise is sold to a investor.

Trouble is it backfires when you accept anything for today and don't worry about tomorrow. It gets tiresome taking the flim flam show on the weekly sideshow tour trying to constantly replace the weak acts they put in front of the crowds. Sooner or later you run out of customers and gullable investors.

I'm not trying to separate them, but the fanbase must extend further. Ticket sales in lake Charles can't support the whole league. Whether the man behind the curtain cares or even acknowledges it doesn't matter. Facts are facts, a lot of fans have been screwed by the SIFL. Maybe that's why he decided to get out while he could, how many times could he find a willing buyer before it all evaporated into thin air. Or was it because his expansion from the AIFA was more difficult than he thought. Bringing in existing owners with a little experience didn't buy his snake oil? He was losing control of the "Swashbucklers Invitational League?" Now he's got no worries but the `Bucs and which league he wants to join next. He's got an exisiting successful teams and money to burn. Surely he wouldn't be cast aside by the third owner. Question is will his ego allow him to be a farm team to a minor league?

Originally Posted by robster2001

Yes and no. You're too close to see it, but trust me, the vast majority of fans simply have no knowledge of the shenanigans (or only know on the level it's reported in the usually-terrible local media). They don't know they're "accepting" anything other than the game they paid for.

True, the vast majority couldn't name many of their own players or head coach. All they're looking for is cheap sports entertainment. The shenanigans have lowered the quality of entertainment. Not only are the opponents coming in less entertaining, your own team is probably cutting back on their level of entertainment also. The casual fan needs all the crap circus acts happening between breaks in the action. When mediocrity starts at the top it doesn't take long to run down hill. It grows like weeds in and abandoned field. Once you loose the casual fan it's all over because their aren't enough diehards to pay the bills.

Originally Posted by robster2001

From what I've seen here, you have a point. I'm not as close, though, and the teams up here (the old AIFA footprint) seem to be doing business quietly and without tumult. It'll be interesting to see if they stay in the SIFL beyond this season's shotgun marriage.

Looks like the AIFA teams jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Some might say the SIFL makes the AIFA look good. The AIFA teams making the move needed a place to play and were committed to surviving. They couldn't be bullied by the man behind the curtain, now he's trying to figure out how to work that dang balloon to flee town. If he only thought about it he'd look up and breathe the hot air into the canopy. It'll be interesting to see if there's a SIFL beyond this year. I've seen many for sure deals expode in the 9th hour, but even when they go through the landscape is straffed and mortered with lots of collateral damage to their own forces.

[Caballo Diablo]

Originally Posted by Gusher

I would want to know where that ladder is leading me to before I would want to answer that question.

It leads you nowhere, it's not even in the equation.

A handful of people were involded because they were diehard fans of the sport. They were passionate about the game and their job to help better the sport and create positives for the players and fans.

They weren't in it for their ego or finances. It wasn't about the power or the kingdom. It was about the sport itself. Was it naive? possibly, but it was an opportunity that rarely comes along. But it did afford the man behind the curtain to fully control the levers when surrounded by inexperienced personnel and do it a lot cheaper.

Was it dumb? Definitely not. This group of inexperienced fans did a much better job than we've seen over the years from the career people. They went above and beyond to save the king's arse time and time again. They are the ones that deserve accolades for their efforts.

The ladder was non-existant for you guys. You knew it was really just a set of monkey bars for the egomaniacs to play on, not a path to betterment. For you guys the steps of the ladder had no meaning and just took away from the real task at hand. Too bad the people playing on the monkey bars couldn't find any time to support the ones actually working to resolve the problems.

[Gusher]

Wow that is deep man. I never did like the monkey bars, NOW the swings yeah thats were it's at.

[Gusher]

This from the Mobile Tarpons facebook " any questions contact the sifl league office. 1-866-898-7435"
I guess the Tarpons are out of answers.

[6andCounting]

Long time poster, indoor guy, short time using this username.

I have actually been involved with the AIFA, CIFL, IFL, and now SIFL as a GM or Media/PR Guy. All together I guess I have been involved with indoor football for about 12 years. Doesn't make it right, but when I think back to the dark ages of indoor football when it was hard to even know what a score was, or who was on the roster, etc. all of the leagues have made major strides. Just about every SIFL team I have dealt with this season Trenton, Carolina, Richmond, Fayetteville, Erie an I am in Harrisburg - does some form of TV/Radio/Internet broadcast of their games. There are real time updates on the SIFL site and most of the teams, again that I have dealt with, have FB, Twitter updates throughout the games.

As far as the team trials and tribulations, no doubt if the two teams are truly gone (Lafayette and now Mobile - I have not actually followed the Mobile situation) that is not good. But before the SIFL is disparaged as the worst league ever, I would just say those in glass houses - you know the rest. No league that I have seen is without its bumps and warts. You all know the details on the other leagues problems so I won't trouble you with that.

[coachingubigr]

Originally Posted by 6andCounting

Long time poster, indoor guy, short time using this username.

I have actually been involved with the AIFA, CIFL, IFL, and now SIFL as a GM or Media/PR Guy. All together I guess I have been involved with indoor football for about 12 years. Doesn't make it right, but when I think back to the dark ages of indoor football when it was hard to even know what a score was, or who was on the roster, etc. all of the leagues have made major strides. Just about every SIFL team I have dealt with this season Trenton, Carolina, Richmond, Fayetteville, Erie an I am in Harrisburg - does some form of TV/Radio/Internet broadcast of their games. There are real time updates on the SIFL site and most of the teams, again that I have dealt with, have FB, Twitter updates throughout the games.

As far as the team trials and tribulations, no doubt if the two teams are truly gone (Lafayette and now Mobile - I have not actually followed the Mobile situation) that is not good. But before the SIFL is disparaged as the worst league ever, I would just say those in glass houses - you know the rest. No league that I have seen is without its bumps and warts. You all know the details on the other leagues problems so I won't trouble you with that.

Points well stated.

[Billy5]

Mobile site is down

[Caballo Diablo]

Originally Posted by Gusher

Wow that is deep man. I never did like the monkey bars, NOW the swings yeah thats were it's at.

Just be careful which way you swing.