Puerto Rico has just dropped out of the PBL

[preeths]

Originally Posted by time out

I was merely pointing out the fact that other leagues have income. I should not have used the three letters that I did. My apologies to all.

We'll just say you had some bad egg salad for lunch and weren't feeling like yourself.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Originally Posted by a1sports

Ken ol' boy, just as I thought, seems your all talk. thats ok, your not under any obligation. I think you miss ( as usual) the basic premise. You think the doc needs business courses? So how do you throw a few million at a basketball league if you werent a success in other businesses,( ex: owning a surgical hospital, owning a resl estate development company etc etc.) To say the ABA has more money is insane, one man running a con job for his own benefit is no comparison, that was a poor choice for an example of a legit business making money.

So as I figured, your not going to call the Doc. So enjoy re reading your posts here to yourself, as your "contributions" are in a vacuum.

I'm not sure how the Doc made his money beyond the medical profession. It wasn't through his business prowess though. He didn't know Patrick Dempsey would not be available to appear on a doctor show while still under contract with another doctor show, Grey's Anatomy??? @SportsTV (enough said)??? Proposed PBL profit sharing??? Lilia Clemente agreement??? None of these moves demonstrate a basic understanding of business principles, IMO.

Originally Posted by preeths

No question, the PBL exists because of the doctor. But the fact remains that the PBL does have the doctor, therefore it exists and has played several seasons. How long would the ABA exist without its septuagenarian leadership? "Staying power" is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. You've accused others of setting the bar for minor league basketball low, but you're now willing to ignore all other standards, and merely look at "staying power," a league's ability to simply exist, as the sole criteria on which to judge a league?

Correct. My post was quite clear. I'm merely looking at staying power. The ABA has it, has had it for ten years now, and will continue to have it as long as Joe wants to run it. On the other hand, the Doc is sinking a lot of cash into the PBL with no results. Everyone reaches a point where enough is enough. Everyone.

[time out]

How many teams will be back? What is the potential teams that could be stolen from other leagues? Will it be worth it to go another year? Without going into great detail wouldn't it appear that the most likely returnees are Rochester, Lawton/Fort Sill and Manchester? The rest of the teams in the league either have publicized issues or are so low budget that their return would be up to a coin toss. With these possibilities it looks like a fragile situation. However giving the league the benefit of the doubt, maybe they have some tricks up their sleeve that they have't announced. maybe pending litigation is code word for revenue sharing.

[CHris902]

Originally Posted by time out

How many teams will be back? What is the potential teams that could be stolen from other leagues? Will it be worth it to go another year? Without going into great detail wouldn't it appear that the most likely returnees are Rochester, Lawton/Fort Sill and Manchester?

If you think that Manchester are one of the teams most likely to return then I don't think you've been following the PBL very closely.

[nksports]

I've been kind of silent on this topic, but it strikes me as a parallel to the mood in modern politics today. If you are one one side of the issue (take the PBL's for instance), everything the other side said is wrong. If you take the other side (PR's), everything coming out of the PBL is wrong.

Without having seen exactly what the fed court in San Juan decreed (and if anybody's got a link, i'd love to see it), all I can do is guess but it sounds like neither side was in the right. The PBL was told to let PR back in and PR was told to pay its outstanding bills.
A lot of people keep bringing up what happened between the league and Battle Creek from last year. At this point, a lot of that is flogging a dead (and, at this point, rotting) horse. While the league screwed a lot of things up by moving the playoffs, some of the "you owe us, no you owe us," stuff is he said-he said. We're not going to solve it here, gentle readers. It's better left to the lawyers and the courts (always get the agreement in writing, always keep the receipts -- basic stuff in life, sometimes lacking in the wild world of minor-league basketball).

If this league wants to continue as a growing concern, it will have to get its spam together. While breaking away from the ABA was a good thing, I'm afraid they carried out a few too many Kool Aid packets from Joe's office. On the other hand, I see some hope for this operation, especially if they get their spam back in the can.
As for some specific suggestions, here's what I'd offer (and some of this applies to some other leagues as well):
1. No international initiatives (I'm talking about across continents, for the sake of this argument, members of FIBA Americas in North America and the Carribbean don't count). Anything that mentions China, the Philippines, Bangkok, Singapore, South America, etc., sorry folks, you lost me.
2. No attempts at nationwide or worldwide TV contracts. Sorry -- ESPN (2, 3, 4, Classic or Espanol), Versus, Fox Sports -- they just don't care and will only want a timebuy that you can't afford. A good, affordable (for both team and fans) internet TV package can be good. Do get your games on local radio. If you can get some games on local TV, either live or tape delayed, that will work (with the new HD sub-channels, that is going to become easier and cheaper in the future). But these big announcements of grand TV contracts that inevitably bust destroy a league's credibility (The PBL's China TV thing violated rules one and two).
3. (and I don't understand why this one is so hard to grasp) Keep it regional. If you have a six to 12 team league in a tight geographic region where a bus or van ride is no more than six hours (I'll make an exception for Halifax), you stand a much better chance to succeed than these dreams of a 500+ coast-to-coast league.
4. Pour the kool aid down the drain. Be straight up and honest. This ain't easy and can't be done on the cheap. There aren't oodles of money that can be made in minor league basketball. I don't care what anybody says. But if done right, you can probably break even (maybe even make a small profit), you provide your community with something of entertainment value and give some basketball players a little pocket money before they have to enter the real working world.

My rant is over. If you really feel the need to tear into me the way you've all been tearing into each other, have at it. I'm a man. I can take it. Other than that, it's been a long week for me. I'm tired and I'm ready for bed.

[a1sports]

Again Ken is very illogical and just likes to be confrontational to read his own posts. So ken , you say the Doc and Doyle are Bad business people because the PBL is losing money. Then possibly everyone in pro sports in the USA is a bad business person based on kens "you say white, Ill say black mentality",. Lets take the NBA for example, All the owners made their money someplace else and almost every team in the NBA is millions in the whole, with memphis in the lead with a projected loss of 27 million this year alone.
So Ken, you just try to hard to be anti PBL and it really shows with goofy comments like above. You started to lose it when you went ape about the PBL patch on Dempsey's race car and its been down hill ever since with your posts.

[time out]

Originally Posted by a1sports

Again Ken is very illogical and just likes to be confrontational to read his own posts. So ken , you say the Doc and Doyle are Bad business people because the PBL is losing money. Then possibly everyone in pro sports in the USA is a bad business person based on kens "you say white, Ill say black mentality",. Lets take the NBA for example, All the owners made their money someplace else and almost every team in the NBA is millions in the whole, with memphis in the lead with a projected loss of 27 million this year alone.
So Ken, you just try to hard to be anti PBL and it really shows with goofy comments like above. You started to lose it when you went ape about the PBL patch on Dempsey's race car and its been down hill ever since with your posts.

Comparing the NBA with the PBL... Are you serious?? The PBL has as far as one can tell, absolutely no revenue to lose.(IMO) The league finances are just what is in Docs wallet. Doc pays (and maybe Doyle) for everything. It can not be classified as a good business or bad. It fo all practical purposes is not a business. Maybe I am missing something but in order to use the word business you would have to have some sort of income? It may be a business in training or a league that would like to be a business someday but until it gets its first "contract" or "endorsement" or receives its first "league fee" it is not a business by definition. It is a basketball league by which Doc is the primary contributor. If Doc doesn't pay I am guessing that A1 is in the cheese line.

[time out]

Originally Posted by nksports

I've been kind of silent on this topic, but it strikes me as a parallel to the mood in modern politics today. If you are one one side of the issue (take the PBL's for instance), everything the other side said is wrong. If you take the other side (PR's), everything coming out of the PBL is wrong.

Without having seen exactly what the fed court in San Juan decreed (and if anybody's got a link, i'd love to see it), all I can do is guess but it sounds like neither side was in the right. The PBL was told to let PR back in and PR was told to pay its outstanding bills.
A lot of people keep bringing up what happened between the league and Battle Creek from last year. At this point, a lot of that is flogging a dead (and, at this point, rotting) horse. While the league screwed a lot of things up by moving the playoffs, some of the "you owe us, no you owe us," stuff is he said-he said. We're not going to solve it here, gentle readers. It's better left to the lawyers and the courts (always get the agreement in writing, always keep the receipts -- basic stuff in life, sometimes lacking in the wild world of minor-league basketball).

If this league wants to continue as a growing concern, it will have to get its spam together. While breaking away from the ABA was a good thing, I'm afraid they carried out a few too many Kool Aid packets from Joe's office. On the other hand, I see some hope for this operation, especially if they get their spam back in the can.
As for some specific suggestions, here's what I'd offer (and some of this applies to some other leagues as well):
1. No international initiatives (I'm talking about across continents, for the sake of this argument, members of FIBA Americas in North America and the Carribbean don't count). Anything that mentions China, the Philippines, Bangkok, Singapore, South America, etc., sorry folks, you lost me.
2. No attempts at nationwide or worldwide TV contracts. Sorry -- ESPN (2, 3, 4, Classic or Espanol), Versus, Fox Sports -- they just don't care and will only want a timebuy that you can't afford. A good, affordable (for both team and fans) internet TV package can be good. Do get your games on local radio. If you can get some games on local TV, either live or tape delayed, that will work (with the new HD sub-channels, that is going to become easier and cheaper in the future). But these big announcements of grand TV contracts that inevitably bust destroy a league's credibility (The PBL's China TV thing violated rules one and two).
3. (and I don't understand why this one is so hard to grasp) Keep it regional. If you have a six to 12 team league in a tight geographic region where a bus or van ride is no more than six hours (I'll make an exception for Halifax), you stand a much better chance to succeed than these dreams of a 500+ coast-to-coast league.
4. Pour the kool aid down the drain. Be straight up and honest. This ain't easy and can't be done on the cheap. There aren't oodles of money that can be made in minor league basketball. I don't care what anybody says. But if done right, you can probably break even (maybe even make a small profit), you provide your community with something of entertainment value and give some basketball players a little pocket money before they have to enter the real working world.

My rant is over. If you really feel the need to tear into me the way you've all been tearing into each other, have at it. I'm a man. I can take it. Other than that, it's been a long week for me. I'm tired and I'm ready for bed.

I know you and many others are tired of the dead horse thing. Last years playoffs are done and over, there is no question. The bills that the PBL owes are still open and as Paul will likely report to you are still owed by the PBL. Some people may let that stuff die away but until the PBL pays what they owe, everyone who is to do business wiht them should be warned about the possible outcome. Doc himself has admitted things were not handled correctly. Absolutely no one has attempted to tie up their lose ends on their way out of Battle Creek. They have made a few small payments to the bus company but that is it. If they fulfill their obligations this dead horse will go away. If it were YOUR community would you just let it go? The PBL does not care or they would take steps to rectify the situation and they have not made an attempt in about a year. You notice that A1 won't answer the questions honestly and tries to avoid direct dialogue over it. That should clue you in to who you should direct the dead (and rotting) horse questions to.

[confused]

Don't brothers take care of brothers?

[time out]

Originally Posted by CHris902

If you think that Manchester are one of the teams most likely to return then I don't think you've been following the PBL very closely.

You are so right and I almost did not include them but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt because I had not seen any negative press.