OSC

OSC message Boards

As the home for independent and minor league sports, OurSports Central's message boards are the perfect place to discuss your favorite teams and leagues with other fans, players and team and league administrators. Our boards cover all the leagues represented on OSC including independent and minor league baseball, indoor and Arena football, outdoor and indoor lacrosse, mens and womens basketball, junior and minor league hockey, outdoor and indoor soccer and more. Before posting for the first time, please consult our FAQ. Contact us with any questions.

OurSport Central independent and minor league sports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11   IP: 75.78.103.8
Old 03-20-2017, 02:48 PM
Minor League Mania Minor League Mania is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 231
Default

I respect your perspective but do not agree with it. At a one to one affiliation that would put 360 players in the league with some being on two way contracts.

Out of those 360 potential players I would imagine a number maybe at 25% of these (non two way contract) players earning a NBA call up would be on the high side. In another words 75% of the players signed to a D-League contract in any given season are not going to EVER play a regular season NBA game.

As far as the high school players go. They would still be few and far between. Say there was 30 drafted, one per team. Then 3 two way contract players per team. You are still looking at 7 other guys fighting out for a roster spot.

Baseball is obviously much different. You draft a high school player at 17 years old expecting him to normally play at about each level. Often times spending 5 or more years in the Minor League system. Just not enough talent for that right now in basketball in my opinion.

The cases where a player has played in the current ABA, PBL, or another "professional league" and made it to the NBA are very rare.
Reply With Quote
  #12   IP: 108.198.225.18
Old 03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
suge night suge night is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 642
Default

The cases where a player has played in the current ABA, PBL, or another "professional league" and made it to the NBA are very rare. (Minor League Mania)

There's a very good reason for that most of those players are age 24 -28 years old.The league has its own bias built in in order to make the image of the league look larger than life to public.

You mentioned the younger player and that is where the loop is remember the commissioner spoke of researching the age demo. for drafting a player that grey area could be filled with the league controlling it, which is is what they really want.

But your point is valid.
Reply With Quote
  #13   IP: 73.133.218.251
Old 03-21-2017, 06:30 AM
bectond bectond is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 714
Default

Actually, I believe the High School issue could be solved by creating an instructional league. The NBA could use MBL's Gulf Coast League as a blue print, all the teams play in one city without charging fans admission to games. Rather than forcing kids fresh out of high school to compete against veterans in a competitive league, the NBA could create an instructional league to teach kids fundamentals.

Ideally, you'd have the G-League 'AAA/AA' level, a sub level independent league for ex-college players waived during G-League training camp, in say - Montana & the Dakotas, and an instructional league for the top High School Kids, in say - Las Vegas.

High School players could train Nov-May, to attend the NBA Pre-Draft, then play in the NBA summer league in July.
__________________
Basketball Junkie and Rummikub Champion

Last edited by bectond; 03-21-2017 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   IP: 75.78.103.8
Old 03-21-2017, 08:30 AM
Minor League Mania Minor League Mania is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 231
Default

Just to be honest if a kid skips college to come straight to the pros then he better be good enough to compete in the G-League IMMEDIATELY.

We are talking maybe a handful of elite players per year. Players Lebron, Kobe, KG and others that came straight in from high school.

We are not talking about a guy who "could" be a decent D-I player but would rather get paid to play. Any high school player coming straight out of HS should be considered a one and done player even if they do go to college.

This is not baseball. You dont have the structure to house 17 year old kids for 5 years hoping they develop.
Reply With Quote
  #15   IP: 108.198.225.18
Old 03-21-2017, 12:11 PM
suge night suge night is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 642
Default

Ideally, you'd have the G-League 'AAA/AA' level, a sub level independent league for ex-college players waived during G-League training camp, in say - Montana & the Dakotas, and an instructional league for the top High School Kids, in say - Las Vegas.(bectond)

Lays out a viable structure (Mania) I conducted an interview with the outstanding Boston Celtic player Dennis Johnson while he coached the Austin D League team we discussed the topic of development within the league he stated that players were simply not at that time being fully developed, a lot of what the league itself was in the mid 2000's was a showcase, as with most things it takes time for the vision to become what it could or may be.

Today it is developing talent, an infrastructure would have to be built in order to support Bectond vision but if the future of the sport could benefit and it could, baseball and hockey show it as viable.

Some interesting dialog on this topic, this is the way a message board should work when used properly it allows for differing ideas to be spoken about and not taken as a one size off model, for those who simply enter this site and read post and may not wish to enter their opinion.

You may post safely while others may not agree you won't be attacked for having an opinion, and that is healthy debate which for this site is a good thing..
Reply With Quote
  #16   IP: 107.77.76.81
Old 03-22-2017, 03:19 AM
zeke41's Avatar
zeke41 zeke41 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,229
Default

Personally, I see many, many ways and reasons for a A/AA/sub-league/whatever you want to call it. Obviously, development is key. Case in point - I tarried over to watch the Gators shoot around at the Amway Center before the tournament started. It was free. The assistant coaches were running their guys through some low impact drills. I gotta tell you...I was baffled, almost angered actually, as I watched.

They were doing some screen and roll work, and I kid you not. Only 2-3 players screening actually opened up to the ball after their screen. Now you can chalk it up to a shoot around, and the fact that the players were not focusing on doing things perfect (I guess...if you want to). Personally, I chalk it up to poor habits and skill development. This is where the US game has been going. AAU domination. Athletic prowess forcing skill to take a back seat. It's ridiculous. And that's just one tiny fundamental thing (you ALMOST ALWAYS open up to the ball and seal).

What's worse is Gators’ coach Mike White was named SEC Coach of the Year. Now I'm not an ultra basketball purist. I love the athleticism these days (sells a lot of tickets). However, skill development has been an after thought for far too long.

ASIDE from skill development though, sports platforms can be very powerful tools to impact communities. The NBA has become a corporate game. The schedules are long and hard (so much that these divas making millions are taking rest breaks). And the common person could never afford NOR take the time out to attend every game and really follow a team in person. The players are less tangible and accessible, and so I say that having the sub-leagues...GOOD, PROPERLY RUN sub leagues has way more upside then downside.

It doesn't have to be about making it to the NBA either. Despite my feelings regarding the drop in skill level, there are a ton of very talented players out there.A Lot of them can't deal with going overseas either. Oftentimes it's rather unhealthy, too. Having some properly run sub-leagues that bare more of an attachment then before is ideal. It's just good for the game of basketball. I know that most of the guys will never rise to the top, but...that's putting the cart before the horse somewhat IMO. With the current detached system? Sure...probably not. However, I tend to think if there was more attachment, it would foster a little more hope in the hearts of some of these guys, and they might put in the work to get there.

As for right now, most of our guys (for the Florida Flight and the rest of the NBA) are set on playing overseas. The NBA is barely an option at all in their minds right now. I'm not saying it should be either. I just know that if there was a cracked open door though...they'd likely go a little harder. I remember how I felt a couple of years ago after attending my first NBA Summer League game and how I felt. I walked away like, "Wow...most of our guys are not even close!" With such detachment and separation, players at the lower level don't have a platform to get much of a clue. Watching games on TV doesn't really show how big, strong and fast NBA guys are.

Long winded here I Know...I guess I'm just saying that I see little downside at all with doing the sub-league system. It would be 100% good for the game!
__________________
www.thecrossoverbasketball.com
www.flighthoops.com
www.iamsecond.com

"What do your daily actions say about the pursuit of your dreams?"

"Our Dreams are the roadmap that God uses to get us to where He intends for us to be!"

"When I stand before God at the end of my life
I would hope that I would have not a single bit of talent left and could say, 'I used everything you gave me.'"

"Delight in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart."
--- Psalm 37:4
Reply With Quote
  #17   IP: 75.78.103.8
Old 03-22-2017, 01:05 PM
Minor League Mania Minor League Mania is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 231
Default

So.....

If the thought is to build a layered system of sub divisions under the D/G League I would point out a couple of things.

Baseball and Hockey already have this in place and soccer in some ways. What makes basketball different from hockey and baseball is that the structure of the draft would have to change completely. I not a big hickey guy so I will stick with baseball as a reference. Also to note I work in Minor League Baseball so I have some personal experience.

We can all agree that most baseball players drafted wont make it to "The Show". I mean a very small percent. Look on a 25 man roster at each level and you'll typically find maybe 5-7 guys considered "prospects". Some of those guys thin out at each level. So my point is if you create sub levels of a Minor League system it would have to be mainly for the other aspect of minor league sports which is entertainment.

The problem though is that college basketball and the draft in the basketball dont really make this possible. In baseball a high draft pick say rounds 1-5 almost will always pick MiLB over college. Especially considering they get a nice signing bonus. The NBA draft would need to become many more rounds than 2 and kids would have to start picking the D/G League over say Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina and other big name programs.

IMO that is the ONLY way you get enough talent to create a sub league unless that league only exist for entertainment.
Reply With Quote
  #18   IP: 108.198.225.18
Old 03-22-2017, 02:14 PM
suge night suge night is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 642
Default

IMO that is the ONLY way you get enough talent to create a sub league unless that league only exist for entertainment.[Minor League Mania]

I just wanted to use your statement as the reference point, it would support the cause of independent A baseball by this standard it only exist for that purpose if we use your bases for operating, they live to sell the contract of lets use a round number of 2 real prospects with the other guys being minor league lifers, not to mention the million or so in losses to operate the team.

If a concept of levels is organized in basketball your point in that some of it would be for entertainment would exist just as it does in hockey and baseball, the players would be free agents thereby not affecting the draft, baseball does this through its overseas academies, so there are ways to make it work, lets say these other levels are truly development structures if that is indeed the fact then they would operate without much fan fair just as baseball and lower level hockey, and throw in some Hollywood actors at least understudy ones who work their a$$ off on the lower levels of the industry waiting and or trying to put themselves into position for that opportunity why not basketball players, I know in the broadcasting game you're required to show the goods unless its an insider connection pathway,no matter how good were just yesterday if you want that next gig your game had better be good enough.

These lower levels would be a pathway, you spoke of the high school player its simply a matter of time now before one does skip the college game and opt for the direct entry into the D League, right now he's being block from making that choice but given the opportunity there are players that will do it, the system simply has to be available but your points again are well taken and valid I'm not knocking them just pointing in the direction of the grey areas that would show a pathway to the concept being viable.

And as things continue to change and adapt its not if but when, so if there is a structure developed for it, the event won't take on the we're so surprised that it has happened appearance. Who ever thought you could rent someone's living quarters to visitors from out of town? you simply have to be able to see what someone thinks is closed off.........

Last edited by suge night; 03-22-2017 at 02:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19   IP: 75.78.103.8
Old 03-23-2017, 01:00 PM
Minor League Mania Minor League Mania is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 231
Default

So in your last post are you meaning to create a "Minor League" Layered system or a true "Independent League" because those are two VERY different things.

Minor league baseball teams are operated and often of by the parent club. All players are under contract by that organization. The only Minor League free agents are the ones who have spent years under a team's control.

If you mean an Independent league then technically we already have plenty in the ABA, PBL, NABL and others.

I know the current structure is different for basketball which allows for a player to sign to a team without being under the parent clubs control. I like this and hope they keep this. So many players get blocked in baseball because there are good players ahead of them at the same position.
Reply With Quote
  #20   IP: 24.248.74.47
Old 03-23-2017, 08:45 PM
Sam Hill's Avatar
Sam Hill Sam Hill is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 4,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minor League Mania View Post
Minor league baseball teams are operated and often of by the parent club.
The players' side is under the control of the parent club.

Generally, the actual OPERATION of a minor-league club is done by the minor-league owner/operator. The MLB team pays the players and supplies the coaching staff and manager and equipment and decides what happens to the players. But the actual operations - ticket sales, broadcasting, hiring and firing, interns, game operations, advertising and marketing - are undertaken by the local club.
__________________
Old enough to remember when bashing the ABA was fun.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Hapening ImgHappening Now