Jam to fold

[formerlyknownasfells]

Just got this one from Usbasket.com

A well informed source told to Usbasket.com that the PBL is on the way to lose its first team. This first victim should be the the Jacksonville Jam, a team reoported in a so bad financial straits that the PBL could decide to not support it anymore. The rumor tells that Jacksonville had joined the PBL because they did not have enough money to start ABA season and the PBL, with a later start, would give the team ownership a better chance to gather money. But now, coaches and players went to pick up their paychecks and learned that there was no money. It seems they have been informed that the PBL is in the works to take over the team, trying to finish season with all the eight teams that started it. We are not able to say if the league will keep the same roster in Jacksonville or not...

http://www.usbasket.com/pbl/pbl.asp

I have a call into the PBL to confirm.

[Mike2]

Only two weeks into the season and the team that was suspected to be the most stable franchise in the PBL other then Rochester has folded because they ran out of money. This is what happens when people start a league out of nothing but ABA teams. Funniest part of the article is that usbasket.com reports that the reason the Jax Jam joined the PBL is because they did not have enough money to play in the ABA. So much for the PBL screening applicants.

[LightningMan]

Not to pick nits, but didn't ten (or nine if you didn't count the throwbacks) start the season?

[TheStandard]

ABAish acts lead to ABAish things.

But if the PBL says ok we are footing the bills now. I will give them so much kudos that I will wear a PBL T-shirt till the day I die lol

[LightningMan]

Only two weeks into the season and the team that was suspected to be the most stable franchise in the PBL other then Rochester...
Who said that?

[LightningMan]

But if the PBL says ok we are footing the bills now. I will give them so much kudos that I will wear a PBL T-shirt till the day I die lol
I hope they bury you in a PBL shirt.

[TheStandard]

I hope they bury you in a PBL shirt.


lol wont be burried. Actually im going to be KFC'ed lol.

I just like to see leagues do responsible things and if the PBL does something responsible. It will stick another dagger in to the demented soul of Joe Newman.

[LightningMan]

I tried calling the Jam and got a message machine, but it didn't say anything about folding. I tried calling the Chicago PBL office but I did it too late for anyone to be there.

In order I hope: The report is wrong The league keeps the team for the year The league recruits a team from another, less functioning league to replace them The league learns to vet teams better

[a1sports]

A call to a Jam player today gave me the following info:

1. The team had a meeting witht the owner Felix yesterday.
2. The owner said that he needs to restructure the contracts in order to continue operating.
3. The pay day was Tuesday and was missed.
4. The player says he is making around 800 per week, didnt know what the other players were making.
5. Said the coach was in contact with the league office and that the league was going to step in and pay the players.

[bdaly]

Great to hear the league is stepping in and approaching this in a way that protects the team's players, the league's teams, and the fans. But, it's disappointing to hear that they are in this condition 20% of the way into the season. If they really switched leagues to save money/buy time, that's a foolish move. Going to a league with significant travel isn't the way to accomplish that goal.

On a different note, I agree that it's unfair to assume that Jacksonville was one of the "most stable" franchises. Teams can draw a lot of fans (by minor league basketball standards), but if their venue or travel is particularly expensive, it doesn't always make up for it. I wouldn't be shocked if teams like Wilmington and Maryland (good, but modest size, venues) have the best looking balance sheets.

[a1sports]

Something doesnt make sense in the Jacksonville situation. The PBL pays for 100% of the travel and the refs. SO whats the problem? The Jam in the ABA had to pay for everything now there is a problem.

[one way]

let me tell you, it takes deep pockets to run a team. Lease agreements, per diem, etc. the list goes on and on. Also, whether you believe it or not- the league is running Chicago.

[tbayz1]

Its good to see that the league is helping the JAM out with this situation and trying to direct them on the right path, but its not good to see that this early a franchise is having some issues, I agree with a1 something does not make sense.

Lets see how this pans out...

[DazedAndAmused]

one way is right about what it takes, but the league influence in chicago right now today is not financial both sides will tell you, except to the extent that the pbl is paying for all team travel. (anybody realize how strong that is?) but, sources on all sides say something is definitely "up" in jax so i believe the chances are high that the league will be doing more for jax than for other teams moving forward. if true, the situation is regrettable but the response is commendable.

[Alumni96]

Where does a first year startup league get its cash?

[DazedAndAmused]

Its good to see that the league is helping the JAM out with this situation and trying to direct them on the right path, but its not good to see that this early a franchise is having some issues, I agree with a1 something does not make sense.

Lets see how this pans out...

...on something not making sense. the other teams in the league are ecstatic over support they get from the pbl. could the dreaded egos be coming into play here?

[DazedAndAmused]

Where does a first year startup league get its cash?

..start with alot. The ring leaders of the league do have it. How long they want to spend it is the question.

[Alumni96]

..start with alot. The ring leaders of the league do have it. How long they want to spend it is the question.

So it comes from franchise fee's, performance bonds etc. from the teams? or does it come from personal finances of league management?

[DazedAndAmused]

So it comes from franchise fee's, performance bonds etc. from the teams? or does it come from personal finances of league management?

Franchise fees are a smaller component of the income this year I am told.

Bonds do exist this year. (I cannot get confirmation on the exact number, other than "six figures"...I believe this is where the Jax bailout might come from if needed but I do not have details.

League management i am told has invested heavily in year 1.

[Alumni96]

Franchise fees are a smaller component of the income this year I am told.

Bonds do exist this year. (I cannot get confirmation on the exact number, other than "six figures"...I believe this is where the Jax bailout might come from if needed but I do not have details.

League management i am told has invested heavily in year 1.

thank you for the explanation.

[TopSpin]

Where does a first year startup league get its cash?Read OneWay response. Owners must have deep pockets. Running a minor league or semi-pro basketball team is a hobby, not a business, or at least, that's how it should be viewed. If you are in it to make money, then you shouldn't invest in this business. There are far better business opportunities out there to put your money in. Owners/people that get into minor leagues like this, get into it for the prestige and fame they recieve. Kind of like Nascar owners. It's more a hobby then it is a business because they spent millions of dollars on their cars that I know they don't get back.

When the money starts pouring out of their account faster then they can replenish it. Look out below! Actually, this is where we seperate the pretenders from the contenders. Teams that shouldn't really be here, will fall off quick once the money starts flowing. The PBL has a great business plan and they can take probably one or two teams dropping off, but not much more than that. Another reason why you try to keep the number of teams down or low.

[a1sports]

I agree !

If the league pays for travel and refs and all you have is ten home games then there is a problem internally with the team management. Why would you go into a season then not pay players. Thats why this story doesnt make sense, The Jam had a good product on the floor and also in management last year in the rec league, now they cant pay players after 3 games? DId something happen to another business the JAm ower has and now there is no money for the team? Thats just one of the questions that needs to be addressed.

No matter how deep "the lawyer and the doc" pockets are, there can only be so much $$$$ to expend if they are good businesmen.

Im curious how they will handle this if in a week the Jam cant pay the players.
But first lets see why they couldnt pay players on Tuesday, then all the sudden the upcomming weekend games are on?

The player I talked to said the owner is going to pay. Pay how much? all of the back pay or a portion? Time will tell.

[MInnesotaFats]

Last time I asked a question, I got blasted and accused of being somebody who I was not.

I thought being a weekend league was supposed to be produce great fan support, hasn't happened.

Has any of you verified that there really is a screening process for owners, this is really the second team to go under since the big announcement. The Chicago Throwbacks was added because the other Chicago team didn't have money.

Word is that players are only being paid $200-$300 dollars a week, and Jax is not the only team behind on player payments.Has anybody wondered why Maryland, who owners supposely have deep pockets lost all of the fan's favorites? Where is the big 7 footer? Rosters doesn't compare to CBA or D-League.

Where is the new exciting rules that was supposed to change the game?

Premier doesn't seem so Premier:confused:

[Pounder]

Nobody has gone under, yet. Lose the smear campaign.

At the very least, the PBL has resources at the ready to cover for the season.

Of course, the problem I hear all the time is "we budgeted to lose X our first year, we lost 4 times that. We burned through our capital." No matter how much the sport "should" be a hobby, reality has a way of smacking you in the face. At some point, being able to contain costs matters, no matter how many sponsorships are available. Sponsors don't stick around if the fans aren't there.

Not that I envy anyone who needs to know what platforms to market on. Even my favorite example took three years to really take hold, and that strategy was really backing away while the fans did the work.

[a1sports]

Easy there Minnesota.....

I talked to a jacksonville player the other day...and he said he was around 800 a week. I know another player for Wilmington is 650 a week....so easy on your guesses. Remember this. I am not scared to call and find things out.

So far..you have no basis to complain....we are all waiting to see what will happen. So far this league is far far above from your rec league the ABA.

[preeths]

The first Chicago owner is still involved with the league, I believe, just not as a team owner. If I remember correctly, he helped set up the PBL's appearance in the preseason tournament. I was told he ran into a late venue issue, and when the Throwbacks contacted the PBL, they became a better, mutually agreeable option. I was also told the Throwbacks were not being run by the league, though it wouldn't surprise me if the league was ensuring everything was done correctly there.

[Minor League Man]

Got an e-mail from Jacksonville yesterday advertising tonight's game vs. Maryland, and a news story with no mention of financial problems. Therefore, I think they're doing just fine.

[DazedAndAmused]

Last time I asked a question, I got blasted and accused of being somebody who I was not.

I thought being a weekend league was supposed to be produce great fan support, hasn't happened.

Has any of you verified that there really is a screening process for owners, this is really the second team to go under since the big announcement. The Chicago Throwbacks was added because the other Chicago team didn't have money.

Word is that players are only being paid $200-$300 dollars a week, and Jax is not the only team behind on player payments.Has anybody wondered why Maryland, who owners supposely have deep pockets lost all of the fan's favorites? Where is the big 7 footer? Rosters doesn't compare to CBA or D-League.

Where is the new exciting rules that was supposed to change the game?

Premier doesn't seem so Premier:confused:

MF, comments indicate motive and motive indicate relative identity. That said, it doesn't matter who you are. You can have any opinion you want. But, I have never seen anywhere in any PBL releases that guaranteed "weekends would draw great fan support." Obviously, that is their eventual hope.

If you know anything about the business, you know that weekend games draw better. Pure and simple. As a league, teams in the east seem to be drawing an average of around 1000 or so. The teams in the west are averaging less, but that was not a surprise to anyone who follows the game. Some PBL teams are drawing better than some CBA teams. Some are drawing less.

The Dleague numbers are up and down too, and we all know the Dleague talent is superior in the minor leagues. Not sure what your conclusion is here...other than top to bottom, CBA and Dleague draw better than PBL? I think that's true, and I would hope it would be for their sake since they have been around awhile.

The CBA and Dleague are obviously well established leagues. They should have relatively strong minor league rosters. But, you should look at some of the PBL rosters, count D1 level players from big schools, etc. relative to the other leagues. Obviously there are lots of ways to guage talent. There are some established players in the PBL.

I'll toss you a bone though, the "new exciting rules" stuff (that was put on their website very early on) was hokie. Nothing was going to live up to that unless they used trampolines and weapons.

One more bone. There are players probably making $300/wk in the league. There are players making 3 X that too. Go deeper down the line up and salaries go down. It is minor league ball. I have no problem with the pay scales I'm hearing about. Top salaries are comparable to what guys are getting in the CBA and Dleague, but top to bottom, I'll bet those leagues do pay more, but the numbers before the decimal are in the same range.

I don't know what happened to the Ripknees in the end to know why the hard breakup with the PBL before the schedule came out. But, rumor is there it was about money....eg, there was none. If that's the case, the PBL made the right call to not start off with them. You may or may not have been deeply involved with that. It doesn't matter to me. Remember though, this thing grew of some former ABA teams that needed to take matters into their own hands. Compared to a 47% game play rate this season in the ABA, they have been REMARKABLY SUCCESSFUL and are drawing the comparisons to the CBA and Dleague (case in point, you yourself). Notwithstanding what is happening in Jax (that appears to be managed now), in the end, that's what the PBL wanted to be known as and compared to....other legitimate minor basketball leagues. So far so good.

I do wish you luck my friend.

[ChumpDumper]

Jam owner says team isn't folding

By MARK BOLEKY, Times-Union correspondent

Jacksonville Jam owner and general manager Felix Krupczynski denied an Internet report that the professional basketball team is close to folding.

USBasket.com, a Web site that covers minor-league basketball, reported this week that the second-year franchise is in "so bad financial straits that the [Premier Basketball League] could decide to not support it anymore."

At halftime of Friday's win over the Maryland Nighthawks at the UNF Arena, Krupczynski said he was not familiar with the story and said there are no plans to cease operations.

"It's not true. There are a lot of blogs out there, and if people want to conjecture or hypothesize, that's their decision."

The story reported "players went to pick up their paycheck and learned there was no money" and that the PBL might take over the team.

Krupczynski said some of the players' contracts were being restructured, but wouldn't expand on to how much that had to do with financial struggles.

"The league has not taken over this team. I am confident we will be here at the end of the season," Krupczynski said.

JAM REPORT

Jacksonville 101, Maryland 99

Player of the game: Former Ribault High standout Brian Greene put together another strong game, scoring 17 points on 6-for-9 shooting Friday night at UNF Arena before an announced crowd of 1,501. His layup in the final two minutes gave the Jam its first lead since the first half.

Turning point: Jacksonville guard Terrence Woods made two free throws to put the Jam ahead 100-99 with 49 seconds left. Forward Chad Johnson then took a charge from Maryland's Warren Jefferson on the next possession to preserve the Jam's lead.

Fouls: The Jam held a big lead through the first half, but the Nighthawks (0-4) came back with a 10-0 run at the end of the second quarter. ... Jacksonville continued to give up the outside shot, yielding six 3-pointers in the first half and nine overall.

Up next: The Jam (2-3) travel to Reading, Pa., (2-2) Sunday.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011908/spo_237985735.shtml

[Sam Hill]

Read OneWay response. Owners must have deep pockets. Running a minor league or semi-pro basketball team is a hobby, not a business, or at least, that's how it should be viewed. If you are in it to make money, then you shouldn't invest in this business. There are far better business opportunities out there to put your money in.

And there are far better hobbies out there that don't suck your money right out of the bank.

I completely disagree. You have to look at this as a business - a business that isn't going to make a profit for a while, but if you don't have a clear plan to get to a profitable state at some point, it's a pretty expensive hobby (and how satisfying can it be?).

Minor league baseball teams are run as businesses. Minor league hockey teams are run as businesses. If they don't make money, they go away. Why wouldn't you run a minor league basketball team as a business?

Is it a more difficult business to make money at? You bet your butt it is. Does that mean you go into it saying "I'm just going to set fire to this money in the middle of the road because at least for a little while, I'll get to call myself a professional basketball team owner and that will be pretty cool," then save yourself the money and write a check to the Boys & Girls Club. You'll be doing a hell of a lot more good.

I just can't believe someone would say "This isn't a business." Of course it's a business. It's the business of professional sports.

When you don't think of it as a business is when you go into it with the defeatist attitude that it doesn't matter if you sell tickets, it doesn't matter if you can't get sponsorships, it doesn't matter if your cousin who almost finished college is writing crap press releases on your behalf and it doesn't matter if you print game programs or sell t-shirts or hire good people, you end up with the ABA.

The "non-professional" attitude results in an "unprofessional" attitude, and that's the source of many of minor league basketball's problems today.

And, as I've said before, the players make it worse by not standing up and refusing to play in a circus league because they're convinced they can get 30 a game and get a 10-game NBA deal or some overseas tax-free contract and they can prolong their adolescence a while longer.