Status of the league

[mel3476]

Does anyone know how the league as a whole is doing?

[BreakersFan]

60 Games scheduled so far. 60 games played. Small crowds (hundreds) everywhere except Jamestown (1200's).

20 players called up to the ECHL or CHL so far. Many of them position players who stayed up for multiple games (Olson, Holmes, Wolfe).

Financial problems? Of course. But for all those predictions of the league folding before Christmas, all five teams are still alive and Supposedly three more will be announced in February.

[JohnDoe]

60 Games scheduled so far. 60 games played. Small crowds (hundreds) everywhere except Jamestown (1200's).

20 players called up to the ECHL or CHL so far. Many of them position players who stayed up for multiple games (Olson, Holmes, Wolfe).

Financial problems? Of course. But for all those predictions of the league folding before Christmas, all five teams are still alive and Supposedly three more will be announced in February.

Found This on the MAHL Forum Posted by Thorshammer

Jim Logue & Bill.

Have pulled the chute on the team. They tell the boys they will only pay them if the team pulls in 800+ fans a night (average around 100) so far. They are businessmen with no sports experience, neither follow the team, nor care how they do. Both operate several other businesses and probably have been so successful with their cut throat tactics. They give no money for marketing, no money to the head coach, and again, no money to the players risking their health for their team. the team only had one 3 bedroom apartment, at times 10+ guys live there, many sleeping on the floor. lately numerous players who lived in the apartment have been traded. One other house owned by a employee of the pub at the rink lets 1 player sleep their. Jim & Bill obviously assume their players will die for them and ask nothing in return.

Unfortunately Jim & Bill your lack of any sort of commitment or personal connection with "your" team should cost you. You are worse than the owner of the charleston chiefs in slap shot. If you think you can take advantage of people, make promises, handshakes and commitments and not follow through you are mistaken and will make enemies along the way. Not healthy for a team on life support as it is.

Get your ethics straight Jim Logue.

Sounds like Trouble in Mon valley

[Geoff]

Not unless it can beproved true. This could just be a bitter player who was cut or an enemy of the owners.

[JohnDoe]

If you research Andrew Haines and his past experiences with the AIFA then this seems to fit the profile of problems he had in that football league. He would award franchises to people who had no clue and no money with tons of promises then when the honeymoon was over the players ended up getting shafted and A.H. blammed everyone else. I usually agree with innocent until proven guilty but there are all to many similarities with past AIFA situations. Admin Preeths you follow the AIFA on the board do you see any resemblence here or am I off base?

Thanks
JD

[preeths]

It's hard to know without having talked to many of the MAHL teams, but so far we haven't really heard any complaints. The AIFL was a mess, but so far the MAHL is playing its games.

[mel3476]

The reason why I asked was because of the history of Andrew Haines. It will be interesting to see what happens as the rest of the season continues to play out, and next season...if next season happens...

[BCRantzilla]

As bad as Haines has been over the years, he owes a lot to Jim Riggs here. He is probably the most experienced hockey person in the entire league and has a solid reputation. That breeds more quality people coming in than not.

[tops804]

http://www.indianagazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19962&Itemid=2

In part:
Goalie: Miners behind on payroll
Written by Rick Weaver, Gazette Sports Writer
Tuesday, 12 February 2008
To hear Nick Niedert describe the situation, it's hard to tell which is more amazing: that the Indiana Ice Miners have won a professional hockey record 25 consecutive games or that they continue to play at all despite not having been paid for weeks.

"We're going day to day," the Ice Miners goaltender said. "We haven't been paid in weeks. Weeks. And we are still coming to the rink every day. We are still working hard. We are still doing all the right things to make wins. We pride ourselves in character."

Niedert attributed the missed paychecks purely to a lack of revenue that has resulted from poor attendance at S&T Bank Arena.

"It's a shame what's going on with us because it shouldn't be the way things are going," he said after the Ice Miners' 11-2 victory Sunday over Valley Forge.

Ice Miners general manager Josh Lipkin had little to say on record Monday when asked to respond.

"Right now it's an internal issue between the team and league," he said by telephone en route to the Ice Miners' game at Mon Valley.

"The MAHL league office is aware of this unfortunate situation and has asked team ownership for a plan to quickly resolve the situation," league commissioner Jim Riggs said in an e-mail message Monday evening.

Attempts to contact Ice Miners owner Robert Eger on Monday were unsuccessful.

Niedert's comments, though they stemmed from the missed paychecks, could also be construed as a plea for increased support for the Ice Miners, who lead the league with a 30-1-0 record but have yet to fill S&T Bank Arena.

"Take a look at Indiana: Everybody is blue collar, we get what we work for," he said. "We're a blue-collar team. We're not looking to say, 'What's in it for us?' We don't care. We're representing the town very well. And the more people we have coming out, the more revenue we bring in, and the better off things will be."

Always has to happen in a start-up league...I would rather see more info on
games, attendance and the future of the league. Where is the league office
when something like this happens?

[robster2001]

According to a message posted and quickly withdrawn from In The Boards tonight, the MAHL may be planning to call off the season, with plans to try again in 2008-09. This is currently, at best, an unsourced rumor.

[Hockey]

I know of two people that were on the conference call where the league was dissolved.

The MAHL is DEAD.

[BreakersFan]

I am told that the VF owner told his players tonight that the Freedom were the only team which was not bankrupt. He said that the league has cancelled this season but will return next season with some new markets. Only Jamestown and Wooster will return. Rumor is that Danbury, Utica, York, and Atlantic City will join .

[preeths]

Andrew Haines needs to make sure he has all his ducks in a row before he starts another season.

[Minor League Man]

I am told that the VF owner told his players tonight that the Freedom were the only team which was not bankrupt. He said that the league has cancelled this season but will return next season with some new markets. Only Jamestown and Wooster will return. Rumor is that Danbury, Utica, York, and Atlantic City will join .
I think the Indiana Ice Miners can compete in a few other leagues, if only the city had a better arena...

And Paul, what do you expect from the man who started the AIFL/A and almost ran it into the ground?

[preeths]

Oh, to be sure, this is what I expected. The man is just under-financed, period, and he pursued the same strategy that got him into trouble with the AIFA. He set up these owner-less teams so he can have a league, ends up hurriedly selling them off to other under-financed owners once the bills start to pile up, and before he knows it, everyone is in over their heads.

I asked someone within the league if the MAHL was suspending the season. I received a "No comment," which is ominous considering the nature of the question. We're told to expect word today.

[tops804]

Oh, to be sure, this is what I expected. The man is just under-financed, period, and he pursued the same strategy that got him into trouble with the AIFA. He set up these owner-less teams so he can have a league, ends up hurriedly selling them off to other under-financed owners once the bills start to pile up, and before he knows it, everyone is in over their heads.

I had hoped he learned his lesson from the AIFA. Single-A hockey needs local
owners and local sponsors...

Not to mention ones willing to lose money for a long time...

[preeths]

Looks like the other shoe has been dropped:
http://www.indianagazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20055&Itemid=2

[IceMiner#1]

About 12 noon the MAHL shut down its message board.

[preeths]

And finally the official announcement:
http://www.oursportscentral.com/services/releases/?id=3592281

[tops804]

...to what was shaping up as a promising finish. Will the league even be able
to regroup??? The announcement left alot of unanswered questions...

[SignGuyDino]

Must Resist....must Resist!!

[rams80]

Well...can't say I'm surprised.

[nksports]

Well they did last longer this year than the Cashman league. But then again, these are tigers that can't change their spots :).

[Pounder]

Must Resist....must Resist!!

Personal opinion: resisting causes too much stress. That would be good for certain forms of weighlifting. However, even though you seem to be a solid Republican, I don't want your head blowing up. :D

Let it out.

[SignGuyDino]

Personal opinion: resisting causes too much stress. That would be good for certain forms of weighlifting. However, even though you seem to be a solid Republican, I don't want your head blowing up. :D

Let it out.

I'm too conservative for the Republican Party, so I left them. I'm at heart a monarchist.


Now bow before me for....


I FREAKING TOLD YOU SO!!!!

[robster2001]

I think anyone who saw "Andrew Haines" and "minor pro sports" in the same sentence saw this coming... if the MAHL comes back in 2008-09, I figure it's without Haines.

Maybe Haines and Bill Raue can get together on MLRH next... :)

[GoalieGirl16]

Well they did last longer this year than the Cashman league. But then again, these are tigers that can't change their spots :).

Ah, time blurs memories! The Jamestown Titans played their last real game in Utica on February 15. I was there. I actually had to drive some of the players to the game because they had no money because Cashman hadn't paid them either. So, the Titans lasted a mere 3 days longer than the Vikings... Also, the NAHL actually had the audacity to hold "league championship playoffs" in York, PA that March. Jamestown took the championship with only about 4 players who actually played for the Titans during their "season". Those who went all the way to York were promised pay and travel expenses. They got neither.

I was really involved with the Titans and was quite disappointed for the league, the fans, and the players who I became quite close to (in fact I still keep in touch with a few of them). Although I attended a couple of Vikings games, I made sure to keep my distance. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Wasn't going to let that happen again.

Too bad Jamestown's beautiful ice rink can't be utilized for a venue for a real league and a real team.

[Minor League Man]

Ah, time blurs memories! The Jamestown Titans played their last real game in Utica on February 15. I was there. I actually had to drive some of the players to the game because they had no money because Cashman hadn't paid them either. So, the Titans lasted a mere 3 days longer than the Vikings... Also, the NAHL actually had the audacity to hold "league championship playoffs" in York, PA that March. Jamestown took the championship with only about 4 players who actually played for the Titans during their "season". Those who went all the way to York were promised pay and travel expenses. They got neither.

I was really involved with the Titans and was quite disappointed for the league, the fans, and the players who I became quite close to (in fact I still keep in touch with a few of them). Although I attended a couple of Vikings games, I made sure to keep my distance. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Wasn't going to let that happen again.

Too bad Jamestown's beautiful ice rink can't be utilized for a venue for a real league and a real team.
GoalieGirl16, eh? Would you happen to be the woman the Mon Valley Thunder signed as their goalie early in the season (but later cut, apparently)

[JoeyJosephs]

I read today about what happened with the MAHL and I am truly sorry to all the fans of those teams. You all got shafted.

I worked with Andrew Haines in the AIFA as his first Director of Media Relations. I had many people tell me not to work with him and how much of a liar and con man he was, but I was naive (maybe stupid) and I believe in giving people a chance, so I worked with him.

In the beginning, we worked well. He and his teams kept giving me press releases to post on their web site and I dutifully did my job...until it was time to get paid for it.

Luckily, I had a full-time job at the time but when I started asking about when I'd get paid, that's when the relationship got rocky.

He started having the teams post their own stuff to the website and when I questioned why releases were going through me first, he gave me a BS answer saying teams had been sending me e-mails but I wasn't doing my job. THAT WAS A BALD-FACED LIE! For two months, I never got any e-mails (and, trust me, I check my e-mail many times during the day). How could I do my job when I wasn't being made aware of what was going on?

I would get calls from media outlets wanting more information on stories that I hadn't been made aware of yet and these people would make me look like an idiot.

Oh, yes, I did my money, but it took pulling teeth to get it. I finally had to set a PayPal account to get what I was owed because he didn't deal in sending out checks.

The funniest thing, though, was when I left the league, he hired a guy I knew out of Daytona Beach...who was one of the many people who initially told me not to work with Andrew. He wound up taking my job and got screwed over himself. He left and joined the World Indoor Football League, which fell apart, and now is involved with Daytona Beach's team in af2.

Karma eventually bites you on the butt when you do bad things to good people, though.

I have my own PR firm now in Battle Creek, MI and am on the board of directors of a sports commission in Grand Rapids, so I kind of showed him up. Andrew felt I wouldn't be much of anything without him.

I hope someone is smart enough to buy this league out from under him and run it professionally.

Maybe if someone does, they can contact me. I might do business with them.

Joey Josephs
Continental Communications
Battle Creek, MI
www.myspace.com/contcomm

[GoalieGirl16]

GoalieGirl16, eh? Would you happen to be the woman the Mon Valley Thunder signed as their goalie early in the season (but later cut, apparently)

Nope, not me. Although I do play, I learned my lesson getting involved with Cashman. Funny thing is though, when they set up the Vikings in Jamestown, all Haines did was get on TV and on the radio and badmouth the Titans and the NEHL saying how poorly run that league was and how his new league was affiliated with the NHL and how much better his new hockey players were going to be, and how the Titans and NEHL were a glorified men's house league team, yadda yadda yadda. Truth be told, it kinda pissed me off. Some of the Titans went on to play in the WHA2 (another B.S. poorly run league) another went to play in Europe and they were actually very good players. It was a shame they got involved with Cashman.

At first, I was actually thinking that the MAHL and Vikings were different. They sure seemed that way for the first month or so. Then they followed the same path as the NEHL. I once e-mailed the Vikings team president saying that I thought the ticket prices were WAY high and that in a town like Jamestown, they were unaffordable. He replied saying that they weren't. Well, it was for me. I could go see the Amerks or Otters for less than that. And I did.

As they say ... bummer, dude.

[preeths]

Haines' arrogance continues to dog him. Good to hear the first-hand story, Joey, as I heard another just like it yesterday from someone involved with the MAHL. I'm sure your successor at the AIFA, Dan Ryan, would share a similar account. Haines needs to leave minor league sports entirely. He's shown that he learned nothing from his previous mistakes and has displayed little sympathy for those who have been hurt.

[tops804]

http://post-journal.com/articles.asp?articleID=24841

Just parts of it included here:
Plans To Halt MAHL Season Began Here

By Jim Riggs, jriggs@post-journal.com

:confused: Is this Jim Riggs the same one that is the commissioner? He wrote out of 1st
person, but could have mentioned "No relation" if he isn't...

Haines said. ‘‘We apologize to our fans and corporate partners for any inconvenience caused. This action was necessary to ensure the long-term viability of the league and we look forward to coming back much stronger for the 2008-09 season.’’

Much stronger??? Andrew didn't raise the bar very high for himself. Did he???

‘‘From day one there just wasn’t a good enough job done back in the summer months as far as sales marketing,’’ he said. ‘‘A start-up league is always tough because you have no previous track record. But on the other hand, we were in traditionally good hockey markets where you would think there is a enough interest for people to take a chance, if not with season tickets, then with group tickets. But a lot of the legwork was never done.’’


Can't speak for the other four, but Wooster doesn't exactly apply as a hockey
hotbed...

Some of these teams weren't even in existence 4 months before opening day...

As for debts owed by the teams, Riggs said, ‘‘We want to get the outstanding debt fixed up as quickly a possible. And Andrew definitely said that on the conference call, that it’s his goal to take care of any outstanding bills.’’

Doesn't Andrew kind of have a reputation for not doing what he says?

So ends another short chapter in minor league hockey...

:) Hope to see Jamestown in a "Hainesless" league next November!!!

[SignGuyDino]

Tickets which have already been purchased on line for the remainder of the 2007-08 MAHL season can be refunded through ClicknPrint tickets and tickets purchased at the box office can be refunded at the local arena's box office or a credit for use next season can be issued by contacting each individual team.


They get the refunds right after the Carolina GhostRiders' season ticket holders do.

http://www.davidschlosberg.com/images/SkeletonHourglass.jpg

[daytonadan]

How have you been?

Here's my best AH story: When Ellis and the rest of the AIFA North step-children were league-shopping (shows you how desperate we were getting at the WIFL), i was brought back to working with AH again. I growled and hissed for three minutes. It was funny.

Then all the refugees were on a conference call and I was invited in. AH brownosed me ... I said "Andrew I appreciate your comments, but you still owe me $500."

We've come a long way since.

[Hockey]

My Haines story.

I was the first GM of a MAHL team. During my interview I explicitly stated that if my employer "messes with my money, I will walk".

When my first pay check was due, of course Andrew could not come up with the money. He tried the paypal scam and I of course rejected it. 9 days after my first check was due I call Andrew and he finally says to go to walmart where his wife is going to "moneymart me $400". At this point I will take anything, so I get the money and do what I told him I would do. I walked and the rest of the team walked with me.

He really effed this one up, I had even figured out a way to raise 100k+ a season in sponsorships which would have been 100% tax deductible for the sponsors.

[IceMiner#1]

He hasn't missed a beat. Haines has this posted on the MAHL web site. He also has items for sale on eBay. The eBay seller name is odd but lists Canton, OH as location.

[preeths]

Tops804, it's a different Jim Riggs who writes for the Post-Journal, believe it or not.

[BreakersFan]

:) Hope to see Jamestown in a "Hainesless" league next November!!!

You may just get your wish....word on the street is that people are already working on that. Supposedly 6 cities in NY and PA. A sort of hockey version of the NY-Penn baseball league.

[SignGuyDino]

My Haines story.

I was the first GM of a MAHL team. During my interview I explicitly stated that if my employer "messes with my money, I will walk".

When my first pay check was due, of course Andrew could not come up with the money. He tried the paypal scam and I of course rejected it. 9 days after my first check was due I call Andrew and he finally says to go to walmart where his wife is going to "moneymart me $400". At this point I will take anything, so I get the money and do what I told him I would do. I walked and the rest of the team walked with me.

He really effed this one up, I had even figured out a way to raise 100k+ a season in sponsorships which would have been 100% tax deductible for the sponsors.

Ok, I'll bite. What is the "PayPal scam?"

Also, as to raising $100K tax deductible, the World Basketball Association recommends setting up a non-profit to go with the franchise to raise money for youth programming. You could use the money to buy anything from basketballs, vans, and other equipment that would be used for youth programs but it would also be used by the franchise. Perfectly lawful and legal, frankly should be done more as businesses get write-offs for it and great publicity. Too bad there isn't a WBA franchise that really has utilized that great idea right now. I personally would set up a board with nobody from the team management itself (probably a board composed of boosters from the related separate booster club I would have had formed to support the players themselves), as to avoid a conflict of interest. If we ever succeed in getting a WBA team in Asheville, I already have a non-profit group I trust that could do that, and I certainly would want to help them as they help us.

[SignGuyDino]

You may just get your wish....word on the street is that people are already working on that. Supposedly 6 cities in NY and PA. A sort of hockey version of the NY-Penn baseball league.

I really wish legitimate sports leagues' owners would join up and do multiple sports leagues. The NAFL had the right idea floating an idea of their own indoor football league but there were too many problems with the actual implementation (venues). I wrote to them suggesting they should do a spring basketball league run by NAFL teams leading up the season, and they declined (for now). Same staff, less overhead.

Doing one sport only is a serious crapshoot, tons of overhead, sales staff, etc. If enough owners were willing to work together for 2 legitimate sports leagues it would be much better for them.

Too bad the Haines of the world is screwing up minor league sports right now.

[tops804]

http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080215/HOCKEY03/802150442/-1/HOCKEY

Police: MAHL players ransack building


By RONLEONARDI
ron.leonardi@timesnews.com

Published: February 15. 2008 6:00AM

Wednesday's announcement that the Mid-Atlantic Hockey League was canceling the remainder of its 2007-08 season apparently didn't go over well with some Jamestown Vikings players.

Jamestown, N.Y., police said an unspecified number of players trashed an apartment building early Thursday morning where they reside at West Fourth Street and Washington Street.

A police report gave a conservative damage estimate of more than $25,000.

The building, the site of the former Jamestown Viking Lodge, is located across the street from Jamestown Savings Bank Ice Arena.

MAHL majority owner and league president Andrew Haines, who resides in Canton, Ohio, said Jamestown police informed him of the incident Thursday morning.

"I haven't seen or heard of anything like that in all my years of involvement with minor league sports," Haines said. "Somebody needs to be accountable. I wouldn't think that somebody in their right mind would do something like that. It's frustrating because these kids are making some poor decisions that could affect their futures here and outside of hockey. "

Haines, former owner of the Erie Freeze indoor football team, said he thought more than a dozen Jamestown players were living at the former lodge. He said he did not know which players participated in the destruction, but said, "I know not everybody on the team was there."

"I think it was at least five or six guys doing the damage," Haines said. "I haven't spoken to any players. I've been trying to gather information."

According to the police report, officers responded to the scene early Thursday morning following a report that a chair had been thrown through a large window. Police said nearly every window in the building was broken and bar stools had been thrown through doors.

Police said they also discovered debris, including paint, strewn around a third-floor dance hall, and that players had attempted to set fires in the kitchen.


According to the police report, players were removed from the building and other players were escorted out of the Ice Arena.

Jamestown police said Thursday night that no charges had been filed against any players. The Chautauqua County District Attorney's Office will continue the investigation. Charges are expected to be filed at a later date.

"I haven't seen the police report and it's out of my hands right now," Haines said. "We're getting quotes on the damage. Right now, once we find out who was involved, we'll probably suspend some players, but we have to let the police continue their investigation. They have indicated it may be up to a month before they make charges."

The MAHL, in its inaugural season, was formed by Haines. The league canceled the remainder of its season Wednesday. Haines said the league is reorganizing and will continue play next season.

Jamestown finished the season with a 13-18-0 record. The league includes franchises in Indiana (Pa.), Wooster (Ohio), Mon Valley and Valley Forge.

[SignGuyDino]

These (BLEEPS!) made the freaking Drudge Report. Real smart move. I'm sure espn will love this.

Story from Drudge: http://post-journal.com/articles.asp?articleID=24881


At least they didn't do this before the official disbanding. Jim Terry would have trolled this board saying this is GREAT for the MAHL. "All publicity is good publicity" and all that garbage.

[preeths]

Haines talking about accountability. Irony thy name is Andrew. He may be lucky the players took out their frustrations on a building instead of him.

[nksports]

Haines talking about accountability. Irony thy name is Andrew. He may be lucky the players took out their frustrations on a building instead of him.

He might be afraid of some sort of liability for damages if his name is on the lease.

[preeths]

Still, that might be cheaper than medical bills.

[JoeyJosephs]

Ok, I'll bite. What is the "PayPal scam?"

Also, as to raising $100K tax deductible, the World Basketball Association recommends setting up a non-profit to go with the franchise to raise money for youth programming. You could use the money to buy anything from basketballs, vans, and other equipment that would be used for youth programs but it would also be used by the franchise. Perfectly lawful and legal, frankly should be done more as businesses get write-offs for it and great publicity. Too bad there isn't a WBA franchise that really has utilized that great idea right now. I personally would set up a board with nobody from the team management itself (probably a board composed of boosters from the related separate booster club I would have had formed to support the players themselves), as to avoid a conflict of interest. If we ever succeed in getting a WBA team in Asheville, I already have a non-profit group I trust that could do that, and I certainly would want to help them as they help us.

Sign Guy,

As far as me per se, I wasn't a victim of a "PayPal scam", but I'll explain the possible reference.

Haines basically paid people by using PayPal. You had to set up an account (if you didn't already have one) and he would just deposit your pay into your account. You could access it from there but, with PayPal, you have to pay fees if you want them to cut you a check and send it (which I did) and you could only take out so much at a time (I think $500 was the maximum you could withdraw in one day).

He owed me $1,200 and, for all his faults, he did pay me what I was owed (mainly because I threatened to sue him, if he didn't, for "failure to pay for rendered services") and then I told him I was resigning.

I don't know about what anybody else went through, but that's what happened with me.

Hope it answered your question.

Preeths: Thanks for the kind words and the opportunity to bare my soul on this. I normally don't troll message boards, but when I saw about the league and Andrew, I had to get involved, if for no other reason, to tell my tale. I've learned a lot of lessons from my experiences with Andrew and I hope this is the end of him being involved with any form of minor league sports leagues.

Joey Josephs
Continental Communications
Battle Creek, MI
www.myspace.com/contcomm

[SignGuyDino]

Ahhh...ok, thanks.

[exit322]

It probably won't be the end of Haines and minor league sports. Now indoor football needs to get rid of those that seem to try and be Haines.

[phydeaux72]

This is classic:

"I haven't seen the police report and it's out of my hands right now," Haines said. "We're getting quotes on the damage. Right now, once we find out who was involved, we'll probably suspend some players, but we have to let the police continue their investigation. They have indicated it may be up to a month before they make charges."

How do you suspend players from playing games that are never going to take place?

[tops804]

This is classic:

How do you suspend players from playing games that are never going to take place?

Sign of a man who needs to bully people and is unwilling to accept the fact
that he isn't in control anymore...

[SignGuyDino]

yet another story...

http://www.silive.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/news-24/1203108300275790.xml&storylist=simetro&thispage=1

They're saying 5 people could be jailed over this.

[nksports]

Poor AH probably won't get his security deposit back. (Then again, was he up to date on the rent?)

[djchuckc]

This could have been a good league. Very unfortunate.

[Hockey]

I was there from the start. This league had no shot at being good. Lets put it this way, not a single dasher board advertisement had been bought league wide before the start of the season.

[djchuckc]

no dasher boards? what about season tickets?

[rams80]

no dasher boards? what about season tickets?

Their attendance numbers suggest there weren't many.

[Shootmaster_44]

This could have been a good league. Very unfortunate.

I agree the concept could have been successful. I do think a league at this level is needed. However, the problem is the farther down you go from the NHL, the lower the calibre of ownership groups and league offices.

I think the first step in creating a league like this is to find an existing league that will cement a relationship with you. Essentially, become someone's minor league. The ideal situation is to truly affiliate yourself with the NHL. Andrew Haines can claim, because the MAHL's link was on the NHL's website, that there was an official relationship between the two. But other than the link being there there was nothing formally between the two. But if you could get the NHL on board, even if they didn't supply the players per se (as the NHL CBA restricts the number of players under contract to a team), but at least gave the teams some scouting advice and became a place for ECHL replacement players, it would be a solid basis to start with. From there you can attract better owners as the league doesn't seem as shaky. The ABA proves that you can find dozens of suckers, but to find quality owners you need a solid footing.

Its too bad that some formal minor hockey structure like the MiLB can't be formed. Though I'd wonder about the state of minor league baseball, if there wasn't MLB's anti-trust exemption to allow for the solid structure. At any rate, the MAHL was a good basic concept, however its execution was poorly conducted.

[djchuckc]

Other than the SPHL what other "A" leagues are out there? Perhaps the MAHL teams could become part of that league. Travel would be expensive though. I agree there is a market for this level of hockey, just have to find the niche and the right support mechanism.

[Shootmaster_44]

Other than the SPHL what other "A" leagues are out there? Perhaps the MAHL teams could become part of that league. Travel would be expensive though. I agree there is a market for this level of hockey, just have to find the niche and the right support mechanism.

The SPHL is kinda, sorta an A level league. However, it seems that common thought is they are Tier II AA. Basically, a step below the ECHL/CHL overall, but not low enough to drop to A level. However, this is merely conjecture.

The only other A league that existed this past year was the NEHL. But that too folded, check out the thread about it.

The only other league that may or may not fit in the A level is the LNAH in Quebec. However, it is a unique case as many of the players are ECHL (or even AHL caliber) but are paid better in the LNAH, so they play there instead. In fact, there are a few former NHL players who play in that league. So where it stands is questionable.

As was raised in a thread on the ABA's board, what constitutes professional hockey? Since the MAHL didn't pay its players very regularly, are they considered pros? On the other hand is the MAHL less professional than the Western Canadian senior leagues that have some paid and some unpaid players? If the senior leagues are included than I would say there are at least three or four A level leagues in Western Canada. The Wild Goose League (home of Link Gaetz) would be one of them.