PDA

View Full Version : Franchises Moving??


jjbballfan
01-10-2008, 12:49 AM
The one thing that the CBA had that the D-league hasn't had is franchises moving, other then early when everybody moved out of the Southeast nobody has really moved, last year there were rumors of franchises moving but nobody did. The CBA had teams move from places that were averaging 5,000+ a night teams moving during the season and for reasons I don't know if they knew why....

Here is what I think

Bakersfield will move they are averaging a little over 1300 they share the arena with a hockey team and a college team, however the owners seem like the kind that want to make it work somewhere, Bakersfield isn't working so I think they will move to Reno if a franchise isn't placed there, or possibly go north to Oregon or Washington

Anaheim may move, they are making it with advertisement and an aggressive owner but I don't know how much longer that will work, if they move I could see maybe Los Vegas, or maybe just go to the midwest like a Rapid City or a Casper Wyoming

Colorado might move, I think that if they moved north to Ft. Collins or Loveland or south to Colorado Springs would allow them to get out of the Nuggets shadow and to be able to find a fan base.

Albuquerque I think will move to the newer arena in the burbs

Tulsa... NEEDS to move, Tulsa is in a town that has 2 D-I colleges, personally I would move to Witchita Falls but I don't know what SW basketball whatever they call themselves thinks about the situation....

I wouldn't be surprised if atleast 2 of the teams move a signifigant distance I wouldn't consider Albuquerque a move if they move out of town or if Colorado moved 2 hours but I think that the California franchises are thinking about it and that Tulsa should move...

Pounder
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
Please regard this post as my chill pill to you.

The CBA had teams move from places that were averaging 5,000+ a night teams moving during the season and for reasons I don't know if they knew why....

That was the CBA in the economically robust 1990s. This is the NBDL in volatile economic times with a whole. Different. Mission. Apples, meet oranges.

Bakersfield will move they are averaging a little over 1300 they share the arena with a hockey team and a college team, however the owners seem like the kind that want to make it work somewhere, Bakersfield isn't working so I think they will move to Reno if a franchise isn't placed there, or possibly go north to Oregon or Washington

Is there a smaller arena (that isn't the college arena) in Bakersfield? My memory says no. They might be a good candidate for moving. However:

Reno- the U of Nevada is still a roadblock, even though they've transitioned to sucking rocks this year. Personally, I think it's a poor market for minor pro basketball. The jury is out on AAA baseball, frankly (they'll live off the new ballpark for a while, anyway).

Washington or Oregon- to support whom?

First, why move? The reason to move is to support an NBA team. The Lakers have their own team, Utah has their own team now, San Antonio bought Austin... and the Sonics are very likely moving to Oklahoma City.

That leaves the Blazers, who currently share Boise with the Sonics. The Blazers are certainly making attempts to get publicity here, but only by bouncing Taurean Green up and down AND just sending Josh McRoberts this week. Frankly, the Blazers have always known that Boise is a soft market (much closer to Salt Lake City, BTW). They are better off solidifying their core... and seeing what kind of inroads can be made with Seattle. Thing is, the Blazers already played their hand... Comcast has started a Portland sports channel, mostly to carry the Blazers. This competes with Fox Sports Northwest, or as everyone in the rest of the Northwest calls it, Fox Sports Seattle. Starting this channel means writing off Seattle... so any value that supposedly could be gained by the Blazers placing a team in Everett OR, you know it, Yakima is probably diminished. Comcast is busy just trying to sell high in the rest of Oregon... so the value of a D-League team to the Blazers is to place a team where it can add programming to the channel. Personally, if they're thinking that way, only Salem and Central Oregon are realistic options. Otherwise, they may very well keep the team in Boise, for all I know. I frankly think Salem and Central Oregon are better options for the Blazers than Boise is. I've long thought that the Stampede are treated like surplus in Boise, which has rarely been even close to a basketball market. VERY rarely. Heck, they're better off in Bakersfield, except that the size of Qwest Arena is more manageable. (NOTE: The Salem Armory or Deschutes County Expo would be even smarter IMO, even if neither have luxury suites.)

Anaheim may move, they are making it with advertisement and an aggressive owner but I don't know how much longer that will work

They should be the Clippers' sole team. I wonder if they'd be better off being the Clippers' team in BAKERSFIELD, personally...

Colorado might move, I think that if they moved north to Ft. Collins or Loveland or south to Colorado Springs would allow them to get out of the Nuggets shadow and to be able to find a fan base.

The Nuggets probably believe the 14ers have more value to them closer in. I think they're actually better off in Broomfield than trying to wedge in on the Eagles' CHL team in the Bud in Loveland. A hundred and forty-something straight sellouts speak volumes.

Albuquerque I think will move to the newer arena in the burbs

Agree, only because I question whether this downtown arena will actually get built. I don't get Albuquerque on that one.

Tulsa... NEEDS to move, Tulsa is in a town that has 2 D-I colleges, personally I would move to Witchita Falls but I don't know what SW basketball whatever they call themselves thinks about the situation....

Dallas has many options, and I do believe Wichita Falls built a new arena. One of those ISD arenas closer to Dallas might serve them better. However, even Lawton might be a better location at this point.

I realize you seem to prefer a AAA league in smaller markets. However, the NBA drives this bus, and they will do what's best for them. I think Portland makes a pretty good indicator species in this situation.

LandRoverUT60
01-10-2008, 12:31 PM
I've thought about either Tulsa or Anaheim moving (low attendance). What do we know for sure? What are the potential cities to lose (and gain) a team? What about St. George (I'm always on the lookout for any blips of it on the radar)?

Pounder
01-10-2008, 12:56 PM
The "AAA in distant markets" concept will not work for the NBA nor the distant markets. The NBA doesn't have an anti-trust exemption to actually be the bully they would need to be.

OTOH, I did notice some discontent with the existence of the Flash (though this might be worried college fans). I also noticed direct flights from SLC to St. George. I think St. George depends on the health of Orem. I don't see why any other NBA team would site there. Frankly, I'm also not sure what will happen with interactions between St. George locals and prospective pros.

The things you need to know:

The Lakers created the D-Fenders, currently site them in the same arena without even bothering to sell tickets specifically for them, and apparently intend to occupy the new Ontario arena when it opens... about 45 miles away.

The Jazz created the Flash, and sited them about 35 miles away.

San Antonio bought the Toros, about 80 miles away.

This LOOKS like a bit of a compromise between the European habit of housing "reserve teams" in the same facilities and the AAA concept, with a strong leaning towards local tie-ins. There may be a few NBA teams that hold out on committing to starting their own team, so I see a half-dozen outliers for a while. I tend to think, in the long run, that the "reserve team" concept will prevail... contingent on the NBA making changes to the way they "trade" players AND European teams being rich enough to buy developing players off NBA teams. If European basketball DOES become rich enough, don't be surprised if your smaller markets end up with teams with the hope of making lower-scale sales to smaller Euro clubs AND NBA teams.

The other scenario... college ball continues to be what it is, which surprisingly will continue to kill the sport in America.

mrcool92501
01-10-2008, 01:00 PM
will b playing at 'citizens business bank arena' in ontario calif
bout an hour east of la.

this venue is slated to open in the fall this oct w/ an echl team
(ontario reign) and the d-fenders as the first couple of tenants.

ChumpDumper
01-10-2008, 02:28 PM
I don't know if Cuban wants to buy a team from SW Basketball. Seems like he had the chance this summer with the Flyers. I think he could run a team fairly easily out of the Star Center in Frisco if he wanted to stay in the metroplex. Wichita Falls or even Amarillo could be nice choices if he wanted to go to the edges of his market.

Pounder
01-10-2008, 03:08 PM
I don't know if Cuban wants to buy a team from SW Basketball. Seems like he had the chance this summer with the Flyers. I think he could run a team fairly easily out of the Star Center in Frisco if he wanted to stay in the metroplex. Wichita Falls or even Amarillo could be nice choices if he wanted to go to the edges of his market.

Cuban doesn't have to own the team to have his impact on it. Doesn't mean he won't find his way to Frisco, just saying.

How much cache do the Mavericks have in Oklahoma?

Perhaps more importantly, what happens if the Sonics reach Oklahoma City? Different ballgame? Or does Tulsa want to be OKC's seconds?

jjbballfan
01-10-2008, 03:57 PM
The biggest problem with St. George is arena issues, the only venue is a college venue and then you have the issues of concessions and if you can sell beer or not..... I just think that teams need to find places where they are the show in town, not having to compete with D-I colleges or in markets where the local television station doesn't even know they exist.... Tulsa is a great market but it already has 2 well attended D-I basketball teams... Bakersfield is good but it has a college and a hockey team.

Pounder
01-10-2008, 04:10 PM
St. George might be an exception to my "you gotta sell beer" mantra. The latest estimate is that it's 61% Mormon.

Mind you, that's down from 75% in 1989. The area has been growing quite fast, after all.

(Meanwhile, Salt Lake City apparently has a Democrat voting majority. The suburbs are another matter, of course.)

ChumpDumper
01-10-2008, 05:42 PM
Here's an article linked on OSC about the state of the 66ers:

http://www.tulsaworld.com/sports/article.aspx?subjectID=226&articleID=20080110_2_B6_spanc24770

I imagine their operating costs are low enough that they could keep trying to grow in Tulsa after this season. Being a farm team for OKC would be pretty huge for them.

Cuban doesn't have to own the team to have his impact on it.Of course not, but the advantages of owning one's own D-League team from a pure basketball standpoint are pretty apparent -- and the Mavs have used the D-League as much if not more than anyone.

Doesn't mean he won't find his way to Frisco, just saying.That just seemed like the easiest way to go. The Deja Blue Arena is smallish but he should have decent cooperation for scheduling since he runs the AA Center with the Stars' owners. Fort Worth's rents are ridiculous given their number of open dates.

TBirdCrazy
01-11-2008, 05:40 PM
I think some teams NEED to move (Tulsa and Anaheim come to mind). But speaking on the ABQ situation and the new arena. I just spoke with people close to the situation and they informed me that the only thing they are waiting on is the bank to approve. Everything else is a done deal. They expect the review from the bank to be completed soon, and a formal announcement of the new downtown arena to follow immediately there after.

They expect the downtown arena to be completed in time for the 2009-2010 season.

The lease for Tingley is up this year, so will be interesting to see what happens after this year.

jjbballfan
01-11-2008, 06:44 PM
who is building this downtown arena and what size would it be?

ChumpDumper
01-11-2008, 07:04 PM
This is the most recent news I could find:

Executives at City Hall are still working on plans for a Downtown arena and hotel.
The city is talking with Garfield Traub Development, which has discussed a 12,000- to 16,000-seat arena that could be home to concerts and two minor-league sports teams. Additional phases could include a 400-room hotel, upscale homes and 50,000 square feet of restaurant and retail space.
The project would be near the Convention Center, where a previous arena proposal was considered two years ago.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/metro/261478metro11-13-07.htm

abie10
01-11-2008, 08:52 PM
If the TBirds are waiting for the bank, does this mean that this is their arena? This is the first I heard of this...

TBirdCrazy
01-15-2008, 04:08 PM
abie,

The Tbirds are not waiting on the bank approval - the bank needs to approve the funding for building (This has nothing to do with the Tbirds).

And yes, this would be the Tbirds new arena.