Owners

[jjbballfan]

All what I have been hearing on here is about the owners so here is what I know....

Yakima SunKings- owned by the Yakima tribe problem is the tribe has some bad investments and leaders weren't happy when they found out that members bought the tribe with out there consent, the problem with the CBA is if Yakima is sold would a new owner stay in the CBA?

Minot Skyrockets- was owned by Apex but now is apparently owned by local investors the problem I see with them is if northern midwest teams fold are they going to want to stay?

Oklahoma Calvary- was owned by somebody and now is owned locally, the problem I see is with the arena the old owner had agreed to pay a large sum for arena repairs and never paid do the new investors know what they are getting into?

Atlanta Krunk- owned by some rapper or krunkster or somebody, I thought they would do better honestly Atlanta is a gangsta town and I thought the Krunk would really associate into that I think the owner and venue in which both appear to be a joke are the problems...

Butte owned by Apex last Apex owned team who owned GF, Minot, Indiana and I believe had some sort of ties with the Utah franchise and had there fingers in the Pittsburgh franchise... Apparently the coaches aren't getting paid the players are getting shorted and who knows what else

Great Falls owned by Tuckman who is a legal con artist, the guy knows his ins and outs of the system I have yet to figure out if the guy wants to run a team or if he just likes making money in a sleazy form, I will give the guy some respect when most owners receive calls over this type of thing they can't be found or its no comment with Tuckman the guy just keeps coming up with excuses.....

Eastern Kentucky- Owned by a group that formally owned an ABA team however they like to consider themselves new owners, seem to be doing an honest job and a hard job but in a newspaper article admit that it is tough

RGV- owned by an owner who is trying he says that he would like to keep his team in the Valley but with the Vipers I wouldn't be surprised if he moved the team..

Pittsburgh and Albany I don't know who owns these teams

Overall I think the CBA is the one to blame they got so lost after the staple holds left the league that they quit the practices that allowed them to become a great league... The CBA has always had problems with keeping teams put but have had few problems during the season of money problems, players boycotting, coaches quiting or were they fired? and so on, its becoming a joke Isaiah did some of this but the league didn't do much to improve afterwards....

[psbf]

occasional responses from the Xplosion. But this is what I have figured out.
The X were owned by former ABA great Freddy Lewis when they were in that league. But Trinity purchased them(along with three other teams) and switched us to this league.
During the offseason, apparently Trinity dropped us with no official word and the ex NFL quaterback(Jay something) took one of the Trinity teams out of Miami and relocated them to Pikeville Ky, where they began promotion. In the meantime, somewhow Lewis reacquired the X. Unfortunately there has only been promotion one time that I'm aware of. That was the last game vs. Yakama where Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward was to be honored by the X, the city and the county. He was a no show(after appearing at a Harlem Globetrotters exhibition the night before). I think this may be why the low turnout tonight. But in my opinion, they should blaming Ward and not the Xplosion.
At any rate, the X need to start promoting more to get fans aware and I feel things will get better. But we need a competent PR man. We have a PR guy now, but I've not seen anything happen.
That's my take on things here.

[ChumpDumper]

Art Gonzales (also President) - Looks like he made most of his living in the steel brokerage business. Has lived in McAllen for 15 years

Kevin Mitchell (also VP) - Played college ball at UT Pan American. Works in the pharmaceutical industry, lately for Norvo Nordisk.

Jordan J. Maswoswe - Pharmacist and pharmaceutical industry consultant.

I have only had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Maswoswe. Nice guy.

I'm sure they would prefer to stay in McAllen, but it's not going to make a lot of sense long term. Unfortunately there isn't another venue in the valley that is suitable for the CBA. The closest they could move would probably be a place like Robstown outside of Corpus Christi or Laredo.

They could just give up the ghost I suppose, but it would be a shame. They have the basis of a really good organization there.

[one way]

I can't believe what i just read. Joe Clark the owner of the Butte Daredevils is complaining that there is not enough support from the community therefore he cannot pay his coaching staff. What a joke. Your the owner, pay your coaches. This guy is a joke. His line of thinking is way off of line. ANd this guy is on the CBA board of Directors? If he could not afford to pay his coaching staff then he should not have been allowed to have a team in the league. This guy is purely ABA not CBA. Shamefull.

[Minor Leaguer]

one way, I totally agree. It is pretty sad when a guy that is on the CBA Board of Directors is one of the owners who is NOT paying his coaches. If you can pay the players, you can pay the coaches. Quit looking for the easy way out Joe! You should know better than anybody that the coaches need to be paid. How do you expect people in Butte to come out and support a team that doesn't even have a head coach right now? This just looks bad for the league as like I stated before he is on the Board of Directors, so he should know better.

[Pounder]

If you can pay the players, you can pay the coaches.

If you only have so much money (understanding that dipping into PERSONAL funds is NOT preferred), what goes first? What's so hard to understand?

Would you rather Butte folded? Of course, at this point, I doubt anything is stopping that process other than Clark's ego.

[Minor Leaguer]

How in the heck does he not have any money for Butte? After taking all of Great Falls' sponsorship money, I have to believe that he has cash. You can't just not have a coach. That shows a real lack of professionalism. Like I said before, how are you supposed to promote a team and get more fans to come out to increase your profits when you don't even have a head coach? Do you think the team is going to get any better without having a coach at practice?

[Pounder]

Gut feeling, not bathed in evidence (at least not much)...

The money taken probably handled DEBTS in Butte, if there was any left after it left GF. $40,000 is a drop in the bucket when certain things are priced out. Obviously, not all debts. Money men think in terms of saving their reputation with other money men before they do employees.

[kg21obf]

The two season before the Tribe bought the Sunkings, they sucked and attendance was wayoff.(although golden compared to todays teams). The owners lost money and made it public with a smile on their face and paid everyone. Warning if someone doesnt buy them it will be shut down. I am about to state the obvious. Owners shouldnt get into this if they dont expect to dig into their own money the first year or two.

[DazedAndAmused]

they need to expect to dig in beyond the first 2 yrs...way beyond. in fact, they need to expect basketball to be a hobby that is funded by their other businesses. there is no financially successful minor league basketball organization right now...closest thing would be a few IBL teams because THEY LOSE THE LEAST. please, someone prove me wrong. i beg of you. the math doesn't add up. you do it because you love it and need to be prepared to pay for it...pure and simple.

[kg21obf]

Dazed well said.
Why do you and I know this, but all these owners buy these teams, and then bail mid season. The CBA is nearly at the half way point and coaches and players are not being paid and all other types of nonsense. Yakima reportedly loses money and drws 3500. Pitt draws 200, how much must they be bleeding. CAn you imaging buying or starting a CBA team, and not calling the tribe or other owners and getting the details. Or are the egomaniacs so smart they know they will do it differently. It costs about the same to go to a CBA game or go to the movies. Well the movies are winning, and i cant understand it. I hate to say this but there is some prejudice involved lots of tatt's and braids turn off some folks. I hear the same ridiculous crap, they travel and dont paly D. Which is shear BS. Thats my opinion and it makes me very sad.

[psbf]

your concern, Kg. But why don't you just support your Sun Kings and let the Xplosion be. I know what situation we are in(as far as support) I don't need reminders, or opinions on our future. I just want to enjoy the games as they are played.

[wellington]

I found this on the King County public records website from November 30, 2007. Is this Michael Tuckman owner of the Great Falls Explorers? I think someone had previously mentioned here on the boards that he had defaulted on his condo in Seattle. Its the same address he used on the Vancouver Dragons website.

NOTICE OF TRUSTEE SALE (http://146.129.54.93:8193/imgcache/OPR20070830001376-1-4.tif)

[kg21obf]

That area of Seattle is very desirebale and not much for sale around there. So he just couldnt afford the payments on a condo he overpayed for. What a tool

[kg21obf]

Ok PBSF I will refer to Pittsburgh from now on as the New Stanton Yuenglings. Facts are Facts Pitt is last in the league in attendance. I am sorry it's nothing personal. The Sunkings will draw approx 77000 fans Pitt will draw approx 12000 based on 500 per game. The difference is 65000 fans at an avg tix price of 12.00 780,000$$$$ And we all assume that Yakima will lose money. HELLO Sorry again. But I try to live in a world of reality. And I go to every game and enjoy it immensley. But I know that it can end every year, and face that.

[DazedAndAmused]

kg, your point about prejudice in the game is really more a matter of marketing. We can't and shouldn't deny that there is a particular culture predominate in the game. Teams just need to be sure that their marketing messages appeal to a wide audience and alienate no one. This can be done while preserving the culture of the game. Some are good at it. Some are not. I observe the biggest struggle for most teams being in finding the balance between basketball and business. Go too far in either direction and you fail. Of course, this is compounded even further by those who come in (and the leagues who let them in) without the right funding and expectations.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Major league sports have already gone there. So has minor league baseball. Minor league basketball isn't going anywhere until franchises become the primary tenants in new 5,000 seat arenas. Not just 5,000 seat arenas with seats, but 5,000 seat arenas with luxury boxes, club seating, party decks, and restaurants overlooking the playing surface. Possible revenue streams.


The day corporations can treat clients/employees to a night at a ballgame in plush surroundings (with a private tv tuned-in to American Idol), is the day minor league hoops will achieve stability. Until then, we're stuck with this present edition of the CBA and bad leagues like the PBL.

[ChumpDumper]

Major league sports have already gone there. So has minor league baseball. Minor league basketball isn't going anywhere until franchises become the primary tenants in new 5,000 seat arenas. Not just 5,000 seat arenas with seats, but 5,000 seat arenas with luxury boxes, club seating, party decks, and restaurants overlooking the playing surface. Possible revenue streams.


The day corporations can treat clients/employees to a night at a ballgame in plush surroundings (with a private tv tuned-in to American Idol), is the day minor league hoops will achieve stability. Until then, we're stuck with this present edition of the CBA and bad leagues like the PBL.Yeah, but it only seems that the D-League has the juice to make this happen. I'm kind of warming up to the possibility of the Toros' playing in the planned suburban arena that will have all those amenities, but I'll miss walking right by the bench whenever I get a beer.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Yeah, but it only seems that the D-League has the juice to make this happen. I'm kind of warming up to the possibility of the Toros' playing in the planned suburban arena that will have all those amenities, but I'll miss walking right by the bench whenever I get a beer.

Naw. I don't see a future for the D-League. They'll be down to playing in NBA practice facilities in the near future (remember where you heard that first 8) ). Change will have to come from the independent leagues. Independent leagues with some juice, of course. 8)

[ChumpDumper]

Naw. I don't see a future for the D-League. They'll be down to playing in NBA practice facilities in the near future (remember where you heard that first 8) ). Change will have to come from the independent leagues. Independent leagues with some juice, of course. 8)Then it's never going to happen IMO.

Not enough juice in the US and not enough people who care about basketball outside the NBA and NCAA.

[heavesrock]

I think the Montana owners are weak. This will be the last season if they make it through for them IMO. Oklahoma's owners appear to have a somewhat frosty relationship with the arena and county, the Yakama owners have mismanaged the team. What I don't get is why someone can't start up another team like Yakama that draws well. The East division appears relatively strong outside of Atlanta. I have worries over Pittsburgh and Albany though.

[psbf]

we keep our streak going, I think we'll be ok, heavesrock. We had a better turnout tonight and won our 4th straight.

[OKCAVS67]

Oklahoma's new owners are trying to work out a new lease with the County Fairgounds board that runs the Great Plains Coliseum.

Today's Lawton paper had a good article about how the current lease basicly gives the owners zero profit from sales of tickets sold at the Coliseum, merchandise sold there and concessions.
From what it said, the team has to pay $2,500 per game.

The new owners are not responsible for the old debt left behind from Hopgood and company, but they know most of the debt is owed to local business that jumped on board to bring the team to Lawton and they don't want them to be burned because of someone like Hopgood.

The County Fairgounds board wants the new owners to agree to a three-year lease to ensure that if any new deal is reached the team will still be here.

The new owners know that they will loose money this year on the team since they had to buy it from Hopgood. They really don't care if they do. Their goal is to break even next year and then start making a profit after that. With a stupid lease that was made while Hopgood was in China it will be hard to even think profit.

I forgot to bring the article home with me from work. I will bring it home tomorrow and update any of the fine points if anyone would like.....

[heavesrock]

Unforunately, your larger turnout was only 898. That's your second largest of the season. 898 is around the lowest turnout of the year for all clubs but Great Falls, Atlanta, Oklahoma, and Yakama. You have an average of only 486 fans per game, which puts you last in the CBA, excluding whatever Atlanta's real attendance is.

On a positive note, your two largest crowds have come in your last three games, so maybe the xplosion are learning to market.

[rams80]

we keep our streak going, I think we'll be ok, heavesrock. We had a better turnout tonight and won our 4th straight.

Is the media actually mentioning this?

[psbf]

the X get no mention in the tv sports coverage, but they do get a mention in the papers. Although brief, it's better than nothing(imo).

[panchess]

..Albany hasn't had a great year, but it doesn't look like they are going out of business either.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

Then it's never going to happen IMO.

Not enough juice in the US and not enough people who care about basketball outside the NBA and NCAA.

Agreed. The American public (generally speaking) isn't the least bit interested in minor league hoops (that's why I'm down on the D-League as well). However, if someone starts building basketball venues with amenities then you may see a renewed interest. Afterall, most people attending minor league baseball games are there for the atmosphere.

[psbf]

I'm not a fan of the way the ABA operates and I'm glad the Xplosion switched leagues. But the one thing that I enjoyed, when we were in the ABA, is that the papers covered the X with actual articles and the tv stations gave the Xplosion games a mention and sometimes had game footage. Hopefully, that will return.

[Pounder]

Afterall, most people attending minor league baseball games are there for the atmosphere.

You call that "atmosphere?"

(REMINDER TO SELF: start up roving gangs of baseball hooligans)

[ChumpDumper]

Agreed. The American public (generally speaking) isn't the least bit interested in minor league hoops (that's why I'm down on the D-League as well). However, if someone starts building basketball venues with amenities then you may see a renewed interest. Afterall, most people attending minor league baseball games are there for the atmosphere.I guess it depends a bit on expectations. I've been pleasantly surprised by the overall turnout in RGV though I don't know how the suite sales work with all the other tenants there too. The lower boxes and floor sections always looked pretty full.

As far as the Toros go, it might actually work to have all the minor league teams located north of Austin out of the shadow of UT. They're drawing about as well as they can in a barebones exhibit hall for now -- maybe the city fathers of Cedar Park could work to forge/force some cooperation between the hockey and basketball interests the way those in Hidalgo did.

[wellington]

Michael Tuckman to his credit does not hide from reporters.

Great Falls hoops team dealing with financial problems (http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/Global/story.asp?S=7593847)

Click on the video icon for a local news report that includes a short audio clip of Tuckman talking about the Explorers.

[bull1104]

Wellington, it's easy to not run from reporters when you're full of b.s. He STILL didn't take responsibility for that stuff. Scott Wedman did what was his responsibility having to do with payroll. The last time anyone was paid was with money FROM THE CBA, not Tuckman. And that was more than a week before the game that didn't get played, didn't get played.

The sponsors didn't give him any money because they already HAD given it to Apex.

There were problems long before the middle of December. You don't re-negotiate contracts AFTER you're behind on payments. You ask someone what they're willing to work for and let them decide BEFORE they do the work.

"Michael Tuckman to his credit does not hide from reporters."

You've got to be kidding me. Michael Tuckman does not deserve ANY credit for anything good that has occurred with the Explorers this year.

[Pounder]

"The players and coaches were under contract with Apex Sportstainment. All those contracts were immediately voided...I said to them we're re-negotiating everybody's contracts. We can't pay you what you were contracted to be paid before. I'm Well within my rights to have new contracts done."

He may be within his rights, but he's nowhere near within his WITS.

You think that's going to draw fans in Great Falls?

[besl]

Currently he is looking for minority investors to help alleviate some of the financial burden. Tuckman was told he would probably lose about $100,000 this season and add that he's already lost $97,000.

This quote struck me as a bit odd. How does he figure he'll only lose an additional $3,000 for the rest of the season?

This either means he ain't paying anybody for the rest of the season, or he's folding the team in the next 48 hours.

Tuckman is one of those rare breeds that is both a media whore and a fraud.

[bull1104]

Originally Posted by Michael Tuckman
Currently he is looking for minority investors to help alleviate some of the financial burden. Tuckman was told he would probably lose about $100,000 this season and add that he's already lost $97,000.

BESL~He's saying that he thought that he would not lose more than about $100,000, but that only a couple months in, he had already lost 97% of that. He's essentially *****ing about the prospect of losing a lot more, through things like *GASP* wages.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

I seriously doubt Mr. Tuckman is going to lose $100,000 on Great Falls this season. How can you lose what you have not put in?

[Tyler1420]

It's amazing to me, being on the ground here in GF, how many current sponsors and businesses are supporting the Explorers, understand what is going on, and how willing they are to help the Explorers get to the end of this season.

Halftime Hitch.

Hannah Montana Party.

$2M March Madness promo.

Despite the decimation that occured recently with the team's finances and leadership, the Explorers have an opportunity to survive and thrive.

It's too bad so many are trying to ring death knells for certain CBA teams, instead of supporting them.

[DazedAndAmused]

It's too bad so many are trying to ring death knells for certain CBA teams, instead of supporting them.

The posters here wouldn't have anything else to do if not ring the death bells for someone. The ABA is too easy any more to be fun for most. The CBA has shown a few cracks this year (it is minor league ball after all) so expect a few jabs.

[psbf]

it seems to be getting dull, talking about the bad all the time. Why not talk about the better part of the teams? I agree with Tyler.

[SUNKINGS]

We spend alot of time going on and on about Tuckman(well deserved). We rarely speak of, Odell Bradley is coaching the Daredevile and playing 44 minutes. They invaded the SunDome sat nite with Seven players, one of them also the head coach. Now thats some savings,how sad. I know why OB is coaching ,but why do they only have seven guys. The Sunkings played two men short again (Moochie Noris/Jason Forte) personal problems back home in ATL and Baby born in Mississippi respectivly. Coach has had enough and threatened they are in talks with Ralphie Holmes, "just need a spot on the roster". Well what do you know both will be back for the Patroon beatdown Monday nite. As much as i Like RH, (instantly would be the best player in the league). I dont think he would take to the SunKing line change style of substituting.

[heavesrock]

The daredevils have been playing with 6-7 players for some time now, even under O"Herron. They had more but left for foreign leagues and one didn't return to the team over Christmas.

[SUNKINGS]

THE ? still is why? Just money saving I assume.

[rams80]

it seems to be getting dull, talking about the bad all the time. Why not talk about the better part of the teams? I agree with Tyler.

I'll admit that my glass is half-empty (as they say) for one.