Apex ripped off the Explorers!!!!

[jbirdmontana]

I just came from the Explorers-Minot game, which Minot won by like 30, and got word that all of the money that the sponsors gave to the Explorers before the season started went into a bank account that Joe Clark and whoever else is over there at Apex cleaned out. What kind of deal is that, I don't think businesses around the Great Falls area wanted to sponsor Butte and Minot's teams. Kellen Lee of the Skyrockets was bragging today when he came into where my wife works, that they have the greatest owners, that they always get paid, and are well taken care of. That is probably true seems that their owners ripped off our team, they must have gotten away from Great Falls with at least 40,000 grand if not more. After hearing this I am curious who in their right mind can root for any of the teams that Apex owns. If the Great Falls Explorers end up folding the blame will be solely on Apex for basically stealing that money from Great Falls area businesses. What a bunch of BS that is, I hope the CBA will step in and recover that money so we can at least have our team for the rest of the season.

[a1sports]

APEX = former ABA owners

Ricardo = former ABA employee

Apex + Ricardo = unfortunate CBA demise...a slow death

[heavesrock]

Minot is no longer owned by Apex. Butte is the only apex-owned team left in the league.

But if you are Apex, why would you give Tuckman some money you could for yourself. I know the sponsorships are for GF but a new owner should be able to accept the losses and start fresh next year.

[bull1104]

Damn Heavesrock~remind me to not ever do a business dealing with you! NO, Apex should NOT have taken that money. Those were funds for the 2007-2008 Explorers' season. And, no, the new owner should not have had to absorb what I understand to be $100,000. Theoretically, he should have been ABLE to, but that's not the point. He shouldn't have HAD to. I don't think jbird feels bad for Tuckman; he is simply saying "Apex ripped off the Explorers."

Or did I misunderstand the title?

[panchess]

..but it likely won't be that way for long.

Where's Ken? I thought he was the resident "hate Apex" person on the board.

Like when I worked in housing management and would say to people, "what's in the lease" when there was an emotional complaint, the same is true here. What was in the deal between Tuckman and Apex? Based on the quotes in the paper, it sounded like Apex was using that money in lieu of payment from Tuckman.

[jbirdmontana]

I read a quote on this website saying that Apex is trying to sell 40% of the team to anyone, in 5000 dollar increments. As for you heaverock, that money came from local business as sponsorship for the Explorers, it wasn't just money for Joe Clark to do with as he pleased. This is boarderline crimal activity to me, and it is not Tuckman's fault I am sure he had no clue that Apex was gonna steal that money.

[heavesrock]

I'm not saying he should have taken the money, but he could have (and did). If I was in this situation I would have given at least 50% of the money to Tuckman. But I don't believe he had any legal right to give money to Tuckman. If you have revenue as for yourself and then sell the business, you keep the revenue, you don't give to it to the new owner.

[Pounder]

Well, that answers the inquiry I made some time back. (or it's "an" answer, perhaps)

Morally, Bull is right. Legally, heaves is unfortunately correct. Apex was in it for the money, and Tuckman is the sap.

Truly sad.

[Ken, Steelheads fan]

..but it likely won't be that way for long.

Where's Ken? I thought he was the resident "hate Apex" person on the board.

Like when I worked in housing management and would say to people, "what's in the lease" when there was an emotional complaint, the same is true here. What was in the deal between Tuckman and Apex? Based on the quotes in the paper, it sounded like Apex was using that money in lieu of payment from Tuckman.

Oh, I'm just lurking around. 8)

I'm also waiting on the grand finale before saying I told you so about Apex. Those who read my multitude of comments concerning Apex are beginning to see exactly what I was talking about. Multi-team ownership is a horribly horrendous idea for minor league basketball. History has proven that and IS proving it again.

...and as far as Great Falls is concerned, any sponsorship dollars previously raised most likely belong to the previous team owners--Apex. It's a rotten deal, but that's what you get when you get these broke multi-team ownership groups. Does anyone remember Worth Christie? Does anyone in Montana study history (with all due respect)? Didn't Worth just run a similar multi-team scam on Big Sky Country a few years back?

...and as far as Michael Tuckman is concerned. Well, his past is easy to read also. It's clear that he is not going to put money into the Great Falls franchise. History is at work again.

...and BTW. Please forgive my Does anyone in Montana study history? remark. I'm not into online insults. I was just being dramatic (and a bit obnoxious, as usual 8) ).

[jjbballfan]

I don't know much about the situation but it seems like Great Falls is the one that is loosing..... Tuckman if he is the great business owner he is made to be should of known to ask about sponsorship. Apex isn't right but do you blame them, if you got a guy that wants to buy the team for 10 grand and doesn't ask about the 40 grand you have made in advertisements are you going to mention that? Tuckman is in a tuff spot but he should of known that when he bought the team, I figured he would move the team but I don't know much though....

[wellington]

What was in the deal between Tuckman and Apex? Based on the quotes in the paper, it sounded like Apex was using that money in lieu of payment from Tuckman.

It seems to me that the $40,000 was all part of the arrangement between Tuckman and Apex. All Tuckman had to do was fork over $10,000 cash for the team.

I feel really bad for the fans and players in Great Falls. Obviously its not a great situation and who knows what the future holds. Does anyone have any idea what the operational costs are for a CBA team? I read somewhere that the Explorers were leasing the arena for $1500 per game. Based on that and likely travel costs, salaries, etc. I was thinking $300,000 at a bare minimum. Does that sound reasonable?

[Minor Leaguer]

I have heard that it was Joe Clark who sold the Explorers and took all of the money that they had generated for this season to stick into his other teams. At the time of the sale that would have been Minot and Butte. Now, with the sale of Minot pending, I hope those potential owners in North Dakota, don't get ripped off. It if obvious that Joe is trying to take all of the money and stick it into the franchise that is in his hometown, the Daredevils.

[bull1104]

There may or may not have been only $10,000 in cash transferred to Apex from Tuckman, and the $40,000 or $100,000 or whatever may or may not have been figured into the purchase price of the team, but I can personally GUARANTEE you that the Explorers did not cost Tuckman only $10,000.

[jbirdmontana]

I don't know if any of us will ever know what really happened with that money but somebody must know something. There should be someway for the sponsors to have a say in where the money went. All I gotta say is screw Joe Clark and Apex if the Great Falls Explorers fold and Butte uses Great Falls money to keep their team.

[sj2u]

I read a quote on this website saying that Apex is trying to sell 40% of the team to anyone, in 5000 dollar increments. As for you heaverock, that money came from local business as sponsorship for the Explorers, it wasn't just money for Joe Clark to do with as he pleased. This is boarderline crimal activity to me, and it is not Tuckman's fault I am sure he had no clue that Apex was gonna steal that money.


Jbird - the thing to keep in mind here is that Tuckman and Joe Clark go WAY back and are extremely close friends. I'm here in Great Falls and had business dealings with Joe Clark last year (TOTAL nightmare)... don't assume that Tuckman had no clue - wouldn't surprise me if the stolen sponsor money was divided between Clark & Tuckman and put into offshore accounts.

Birds of a feather...:mad:

[Pounder]

...and gutting both Great Falls and Butte in the process? Probably yes.

At this point, it certainly does not look like either franchise is viable.