Proof that Vermont is part of the problem

[a1sports]

Here is how they are part of the problem.

Go ahead and call JOJO, say you want a franchise.


Vermont follows the manual, Vermont has live internet, Vermont Has sponsors, Vermont has over a thousand fans a game, Vermont made money, NEED I GO ON?


Its Not Toledo that is brought up or any of the slew of other former teams.

You can do the same for $ 10,000.

[robster2001]

Vermont follows the manual, Vermont has live internet, Vermont Has sponsors, Vermont has over a thousand fans a game, Vermont made money, NEED I GO ON?


That doesn't necessarily make the Frost Heaves part of the problem.

It only means that Revoltin' Joe is riding the coattails of one of the few successful franchises in what's left of his league.

Just wait until Vermont eventually switches leagues... :)

[Paul S]

Well if I was Joe I'd do the same thing.

If I ran a restaurant and it had award winning hamburgers but everything else on the menu was garbage, I'd be pointing the positives of those burgers all day. Of course I neither run a restaurant or an ABA franchise but I will give Newman some credit. The idea of the ABA is a good one, the vision is a good one. The problem is he has let in a bunch of underfinanced people. That and his own poor management skills go hand in hand.

[heavesrock]

No that means we're successful.

[DazedAndAmused]

Yes, you are, but the shame is that that sucesss is not respected because of the league, the quality of talent you have faced at times because of the league, the yearly playoff "antics" where the best teams don't show...etc, etc. Get to another league fast to maintain any respect in the basketball world or before the local fans are on to it.

[heavesrock]

I'd love to.

[DazedAndAmused]

I believe Mr. Wolff would too at this point. He was willing to give the league one more year to improve (based on something he had to assume would change that didn't.) Now it is turning out to be the nightmare scenario for the ABA, and I'm sure all he can hope to do is keep his home schedule together to satisfy his fans. I believe (just a hunch) that there is already a deal for them to be in the CBA next year. It will be announced right after they win the ABA playoffs (if they happen.) Ultimately, he (Wolff) will be back in the game with his original cohorts that broke away to form the PBL. I am one of those who think that the PBL and CBA will join forces for 2008 - 2009. Many insiders have already leaked this conversations even though I don't think the real story has come out yet.

[psbf]

start to consider the thought of a merger after I've seen the PBL get the first games of their season going.
As far as Vermont. They did well in attendence last season, but I've not seen their numbers for this season, which makes me curious.

[logoguru]

Vermont won't change. Why should they? Look at the original post in this thread. Theyre the most successful franchise in the worst league, and that seems to be good enough for them.
________
Kenizom live (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/kenizom)

[a1sports]

why feed the beast? WHy let someone gain financially from what you have done? Vermont is either playing right into Joes hands or Vermont is a part of this IMO pyramid scheme. SHow everyone that you really "just want to play babsketball" and start your own league. Probably cant go to PBL or CBA , they are FIBA and you need a regulation floor.

[TheStandard]

you want to see how good the PBL will be. Start as of Tuesday when they begin play at the FIBA Americas league.

I know that the game on the 6th against Santurce (BSN) Will be live on Fox Sports Español and Fox Sports Net(if theres no pro basketball or hockey being played in your market). Along with a replay of the games later on in the night.

FIBA Americas League gets a real tv deal and the ABA????

[heavesrock]

What kind of teams will they be playing? You've listed them before so that's not what I'm interested in, but what kind of talent? Any big names?

[MJHankel]

Probably cant go to PBL or CBA , they are FIBA and you need a regulation floor.

Just curious, what is wrong with their floor?

[heavesrock]

It's 10 or so feet shorter than a regular floor, a fact which A1 seems to be addicted to pointing out.

[MJHankel]

I had no idea. Don't they play at two different places?

[psbf]

why my question has not been answer, but it leads me to believe that the Frost Heaves attendence is not as good as it was last year.

[Alumni96]

why my question has not been answer, but it leads me to believe that the Frost Heaves attendence is not as good as it was last year.

I'm guessing here but its somewhere between 800-1000. All 3 home games have been consistently in that range.

[TheStandard]

What kind of teams will they be playing? You've listed them before so that's not what I'm interested in, but what kind of talent? Any big names?

I know the three Argentinian teams that participate in the league all have members of their powerhouse National Team. With the exception of the NBA stars. But the talent is very very good.

Mexico's fuerza regia has a good amount of Former Pac 10 and WAC players.
The Mexicali Soles has former NBA Center Horacio Llamas.

Brazil's teams are very well stacked from what I hear especially with National team talent.

Puerto Rico's two teams are very well set. Santurce the 2007 BSN Champs have a great squad especially with Robert Tractor Traylor at Center along with the fact that if they do reach the 2nd round they have been granted to use Ali Berdiel of the NBDL, Elias "Larry" Ayuso who is playing in the Euroleague and Sharif Fajardo who is in France at this point.

The Arecibo Captains have former NBA Center Tony Massenburg.


The Miami Tropics have a very good team especially with guys that have a vast amount of experience in real D1 Colleges and in the BSN.
The talent is very good in general especially if you want to see real structured basketball and not the non defense all non structure nba game.

[psbf]

Thanks, Alumni96.

[heavesrock]

Sounds pretty good. I'd love to watch but I unfortunately don't get FSN. One thing that just really annoys me about international basketball is the free throw lane, the way it is angled. I don't know why, I just can't stand it. I disagree somewhat, however, with the NBA comments.

[TheStandard]

Sounds pretty good. I'd love to watch but I unfortunately don't get FSN. One thing that just really annoys me about international basketball is the free throw lane, the way it is angled. I don't know why, I just can't stand it. I disagree somewhat, however, with the NBA comments.

The Trapezoid is basically for a more defensive-more passing type of game. It was the way Naismith would have wanted it lol

[a1sports]

Thast right kid, in a real pro basketball league you have regulation sized floors. I guess FIBA and all the other pro leagues are fixated on that. LOL. Maybe in Vermont, the distance from home plate to first is 15 feet and a football field is 90 yards, but in the pro sports world there are regulation sizes that teams adhere to. NOPE, Vermont will not be accepted to any other league besides the rec league they are in now.

[TheStandard]

if vermont moves to Burlington they would

[misenern]

Thast right kid, in a real pro basketball league you have regulation sized floors. I guess FIBA and all the other pro leagues are fixated on that. LOL. Maybe in Vermont, the distance from home plate to first is 15 feet and a football field is 90 yards, but in the pro sports world there are regulation sizes that teams adhere to. NOPE, Vermont will not be accepted to any other league besides the rec league they are in now.

I really don't see why FIBA cares so much. For years the Chicago Blackhawks played on a smaller than regulation sized ice surface in the NHL and no one seemed to care. I am sure you would consider the NHL a pro league.

[heavesrock]

The problem with moving to Burlington is we recieve much better support in Barre. As for the court, whether FIBA would care or not, A1 just wants some place to bash Vermont.

[misenern]

The problem with moving to Burlington is we recieve much better support in Barre. As for the court, whether FIBA would care or not, A1 just wants some place to bash Vermont.

I am not doubting that they would care, I just don't understand why they do. And yes, we all know a1.

[a1sports]

Maybe Rosa Parks should have been happy to have a seat on the bus? When something is worng and there is an injustice, is there a limit to how many times it can be brought up? I think not. Too MANY people have been hurt by the rec league and I will keep mentioning Vermont untill ALex does what is right IMO. Those who know whats right thanks for the private messages, I appreciate it. Those who think its just about basketball games....I feel sorry for you.

[Alumni96]

Maybe Rosa Parks should have been happy to have a seat on the bus? When something is worng and there is an injustice, is there a limit to how many times it can be brought up? I think not. Too MANY people have been hurt by the rec league and I will keep mentioning Vermont untill ALex does what is right IMO. Those who know whats right thanks for the private messages, I appreciate it. Those who think its just about basketball games....I feel sorry for you.

Newest creative writing class assignment?

Stay tuned for the next gripping episode of " The Boy who Cried Wolff"

[besl]

My goodness, I'm sick of all this talk about Vermont's "non-regulation" size court. It's quirks like this that make sports fun to watch.

Were the Pittsburgh Steelers playing on a "regulation" field on Monday Night Football last week? I think everyone would agree it wasn't, but that was one of the more interesting football games I've seen in a while.

A minor league hockey team I used to follow played in a small rink that had corners so tight the zamboni had to cut the corners just to make it around. Yet their wins were allowed to count in the standings despite this "non-regulation" size rink.

Major league baseball plays on fields with all sorts of different dimensions. Heck, Houston even has a hill in their outfield. I don't hear many people complaining about the Astros playing on a non-regulation field.

And heck, a lot of FIBA teams in Europe play on rubberized vinyl floors... The same kind of court you are likely to find at your local youth center.

I think as long at the hoop is 10 feet high and the free throw line is 19 feet away from the baseline, it doesn't matter what the distance in the middle is.

With the current state of minor league basketball in this country, I think any league should be happy to have a team with a fan base as rabid and excitable as Vermont's, with or without a "regulation" floor.

[utahstarsticketholder]

to compare anything in sports to Rosa Parks' courage is a slight to all who fought and died for equal rights for all Americans. Your point is not even in the same class. I have been a supporter of yours in pointing out the criminal things happening in this league but to equate The Civil Rights Movement with the lenght of a basketball floor is not only laughable but spurious. IMHO.
Having lived throught those contentious times, jack.

[DazedAndAmused]

a1, you should really move on from this. There was a pivotal event of some sort that you know about where you believe Wolff had a chance to make the league better. He didn't apparently, and IMO he is paying the price anyway by being associated with a failed league that few respect. No need to rub salt in his wounds. He obviously knows how to architect a successful minor league bball team that could be part of a better league. Again, move on and even your critics will continue to value your input.....you are on point much of the time.

[TheStandard]

My goodness, I'm sick of all this talk about Vermont's "non-regulation" size court. It's quirks like this that make sports fun to watch.

Were the Pittsburgh Steelers playing on a "regulation" field on Monday Night Football last week? I think everyone would agree it wasn't, but that was one of the more interesting football games I've seen in a while.

A minor league hockey team I used to follow played in a small rink that had corners so tight the zamboni had to cut the corners just to make it around. Yet their wins were allowed to count in the standings despite this "non-regulation" size rink.

Major league baseball plays on fields with all sorts of different dimensions. Heck, Houston even has a hill in their outfield. I don't hear many people complaining about the Astros playing on a non-regulation field.

And heck, a lot of FIBA teams in Europe play on rubberized vinyl floors... The same kind of court you are likely to find at your local youth center.

I think as long at the hoop is 10 feet high and the free throw line is 19 feet away from the baseline, it doesn't matter what the distance in the middle is.

With the current state of minor league basketball in this country, I think any league should be happy to have a team with a fan base as rabid and excitable as Vermont's, with or without a "regulation" floor.

There is a FIBA Requirement and Hardwood along with other composite and non composite materials are allowed as long as its approved. One of them is the Rhino Floor a floor the Las Vegas Rattlers of the ABA had. Also all leagues approved by a country's federation (USA Basketball is an Example) have to abide to the FIBA Minimum required length of court

And that is : 91' 10" x 49' 2.5"

That is what FIBA and the Country's regulating federation want.

Also the basketball has to be to the dimensions of the NCAA basketball.

Now its up to your league to set a minimum or a maximum or a set standard.

A set standard would be the NBA where all of their courts have to be at
94' x 50' with the lane at 16' x 19'

BSN mandates that your court be no shorter than 91'10x 49'2.5 and no larger than 94'x50' (Ponce, Santurce, Arecibo, Bayamon and Caguas have 94x50 courts. Rest of the league is 91'10x49' 2.5) but these courts that are 94x50 then use the FIBA lane dimensions but are always adjustable to NCAA and NBA regulations. Although as of the 2009 season all courts will have go to 94x50 and the NBA 3 point line although the lane will be the same.(They follow what Spain & Italy's 1st division will be doing as of 2009 also)

The CBA apparently uses at least the NCAA set standard

THE ABA lol. Half court seems to be that standard.

Is vermont's Barre court small? To even the NCAA yes. is Burlington Court regulation, Yes it is.

Hence since the PBL does that that USA Basketball membership they will have to at least have the minimum dimension court that is allowed to play under FIBA regulations and that is 91 feet. So as long as they use an NCAA size court it is more than fine.

[panchess]

..isn't the free throw line 15 feet from the basket?

[Chuck the Writer]

..isn't the free throw line 15 feet from the basket?

It's not so much that as it is that certain plays are designed so that the team, while running down the court, automatically know where to go. Their muscle memory when they run down the court automatically lets them know that in five, four, three, two, one steps, you gotta turn around and get set up for the play.

It doesn't help when your body is counting five, four, three and you hit the back wall of the building.

The CBA had this problem many many many years ago when the Sunbury Mercuries were in the league (1947-71). Up until the mid-1960's, the team played their home games in Sunbury High School, whose court was about 10-15 feet too short (the team later moved to Shikellamy HS, but I don't know the dimensions of that court).

In order to make sure that at least the teams had the regulation amount of space on their respective sides of the court, two backcourt lines were painted on the floor parallel to the center line - each line 5 feet away from the center line, running parallel. So it may have taken three steps to cross the backcourt line in Sunbury, but from that backcourt to the back of the arena was still the regulation amount of area required for a professional game.

Then, when the CBA instituted the 3-point line in the 1964-65 season (by the way, two years before the ABA even came into existence, so any claim they had to inventing the 3-point line is spurious), there were some courts where this line - back then a 25-foot semicircle from the hoop - barely fit on the high school courts the league used in the day. I imagine that in some cases, players in the corner who wanted to shoot a three might have had to splay their feet "slue-foot" style to stay between the 3-point arc and the out-of-bounds line.

In the end, all I'm going to say about Vermont's courts and their regulation area is this - if you don't like the courts, don't play the Frost Heaves and don't have them on your schedule for road trips. And if that's still an issue, go call Larry Leonard and let him build a state-of-the-art arena for the Frost Heaves. He'll probably get right on that - just as soon as he finishes building those 25,000 bicycles, the arena for his own building, and picks up a pack of Sudafed for his wife.

[besl]

..isn't the free throw line 15 feet from the basket?

Correct, though the backboard is 4 feet away from the baseline, making the entire key 19 feet long.

It's not so much that as it is that certain plays are designed so that the team, while running down the court, automatically know where to go. Their muscle memory when they run down the court automatically lets them know that in five, four, three, two, one steps, you gotta turn around and get set up for the play.

It doesn't help when your body is counting five, four, three and you hit the back wall of the building.

In the end, all I'm going to say about Vermont's courts and their regulation area is this - if you don't like the courts, don't play the Frost Heaves and don't have them on your schedule for road trips.

In my opinion, this all falls into the category of "Home court advantage".

I don't think its any different than a visiting team coming into Fenway Park and a left fielder not knowing how to correctly play a ball hit off the Green Monster.

[tops804]

I really don't see why FIBA cares so much. For years the Chicago Blackhawks played on a smaller than regulation sized ice surface in the NHL and no one seemed to care. I am sure you would consider the NHL a pro league.

FIBA might care...The fans probably won't. But this type of thing affects the
players and play of the game. (In hockey an onside breakaway pass in your
own arena and practice rink. Could be just offsides, on a smaller rink). I used
to pity the goalies playing at the Aud in Buffalo, for the way the puck used to bank
off of the non-regulation corners.

I would hope that if Vermont is looked into by the CBA or PBL. The floor
issue would be secondary, say to; will this team exist in five years. Maybe in
a better/bigger venue?

[TheStandard]

FIBA might care...The fans probably won't. But this type of thing affects the
players and play of the game. (In hockey an onside breakaway pass in your
own arena and practice rink. Could be just offsides, on a smaller rink). I used
to pity the goalies playing at the Aud in Buffalo, for the way the puck used to bank
off of the non-regulation corners.

I would hope that if Vermont is looked into by the CBA or PBL. The floor
issue would be secondary, say to; will this team exist in five years. Maybe in
a better/bigger venue?


FIBA only makes sure that rules, game and contracts(reason why you want to be in FIBA) are enforced.

A player that goes from one team to another team well the former team gets compesated and how? Through a Transfer letter that gets approved by the Local FIBA Region and then handed to the next fiba region and then to the team. But all teams involved have to be in a FIBA League such as the NBA or the Italian First, second, third division for example.

Dimensions you have to abide by the fiba standard or above its standard (NBA) but not lower than the standard. is there exception to the rules? yes but its how much they want to stretch and bend it for a year.

Also in Hockey hockeys governing body really doesnt do nor enforce anything. out of the international federations of hockey, basketball, baseball and soccer its FIBA and FIFA that rule and enforce very well

[Pounder]

I noticed that the Civic Center complex also has a hockey arena. How much does that hold? How hard would it be for Mr. Wolff to fund some modifications?

Quirks are nice for their purposes. Baseball is one thing. Basketball needs more space IMO... and, heck, larger floors mean more courtside seating = more $$ for owners.

BTW- the trapezoid lane diminishes the chances a slow big man can dominate a game defensively. I tend to think the NBA should be considering it if we want the national team to ever be competitive again. Of course, my Blazers and Greg Oden would be a casualty of a rule change, but I think it's time to look at it. Too bad the NCAA never followed through on a suggestion (which might even have been voted on IIRC) to institute the trapezoid.

[TheStandard]

i think the NBA and NCAA need to implement aspects of the world game because the rest of the world has not only met up to par with them but at times over passed them. For the US to hold game with the world they now have to play what the rest of the world plays. the world played their game and matched it now its time to play their game and take it over